Dear Wade Philips

[smarta5150]

Im not saying give Barber 15+ carries. What I am saying is do not give Jones over 15 carries but instead give those additional carries to someone else.

Jones will be most effective and is more likely to stay healthy that way.

I could have swore you said if MBIII gets 15+ carries he will out perform JJ's 15+ carries a game... something like that right?

Sorry, but this is way too hypothetical, even for me.

No one can make that argument at this time.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Since you mention YPC... JJ had a 4.1 and was 18th in the league in rushing yards.

All I am saying is that is I will take 4 yards a pop any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Unfortunately we being Cowboy fans were spoiled by #22.

How was this place when Troy Hambrick was our starting RB? Must have been anarchy in here.

And what i am saying is that if you set his per game ceiling to be 15 carries you will see an average upwards of 5. I by no means think he sucks I just think that he needs to be used correctly.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I could have swore you said if MBIII gets 15+ carries he will out perform JJ's 15+ carries a game... something like that right?

Sorry, but this is way too hypothetical, even for me.

No one can make that argument at this time.

No i never di and never will. Barbers splits are almost as bad as Jones albeit a smaller sample size. Previous performance is the best predictor of future performance.

 

[smarta5150]

And what i am saying is that if you set his per game ceiling to be 15 carries you will see an average upwards of 5. I by no means think he sucks I just think that he needs to be used correctly.

True. I wouldn't mind more of a true split in carries but I am against switching their roles of last season.

 

[Rack]

87 carries.
409 yds
4.7 yds per carry.
Your math is as fuzzy as your logic.

You always claim BP ruined JuJo, then you show stats comparing JuJo to LT... speaking of fuzzy logic.

I challenge you to do that. I have $100 that says you can't and you're wrong.

You supply the video, and I'll make the highlight real. I don't carry around vids of Troy Hambrick's games. Sorry.

I don't think anyone has yet mentioned about the playoffs...

22 for 112 5.1YPC

Based on the haters' logic, shouldn't it have been like 22 for 44 with a 2YPC since he gets so worn down?

Those stats are wrong. No way in hell could JuJo have done that since BP ruined him.

Or was it one of those special occasion games where JuJo woke up and decided "Today, I'm not gonna listen to Parcells".

He was not allowed to show what he could do by his head coach.

He may very well be much better without Parcells insistence on having a robot for a RB.

It will definitely be interesting to see how he does if Wade will just let him run.

Yet another mindless drone that blames the coach.

You're misapplying the information to an argument that doesn't exist.

Noone is saying Julius sucks because his average declines at 15 carries. They're saying that he doesn't deserve more if his average is just going to drop. Comparisons to LT are pointless, and illustrate nothing for or against that point. Noone is arguing that LT needs more carries.

The playoff game was GREAT! Sign me up for that Julius Jones from now until forever. Unfortunately, to get that production back, we had to cut his carries down to about 10 per game for the final 6 games of the season.

I read the rest of the thread and see that Burm didn't reply/get this post. Typical.

Has MBIII ever carried more than 15 times in a single game?

Yes, he has.

Ok... so ANYONE can rush for 1,000+ yards.

1,000 yard RBs dont grow on trees (is that better than LTs dont?)

Someone already replied to this, but I'll reinforce it. When 23 RBs get 1000 yards, and there's only 32 starting RBs in the league... yeah, 1000 yards is no big deal.

How many running backs are there in the league?

Its safe to say less than half had over 1,000+ yards?

Might not be that big of a deal but its nothing that should be overlooked so easily.

Nice. Trying to put EVERY RUNNINGBACK in the NFL into your 1000 yard argument.

Did you think anyone would actually buy that crap?

Bring back the draw play. He killed people with the draw the last 8 games of his rookie season and I haven't seen the run it since to him.

Then you haven't been paying attention. Just cuz he hasn't been killing people with the draw doesn't mean he hasn't been running it. Teams catch on and stop certain plays if the RB carrying the ball on the play is nothing special. They found a way to stop it and JuJo hasn't found a way to counter.


This brings me to another point though...

Burm always likes to claim that MB3's YPC is high because of his 3rd and long carries (which has been proved incorrect time and time again)... Anyone want to go through JuJo rookie carries and see how many yards he got on the draw play in a passing situation? I mean if he got the bulk of his yards (not saying he did) on those type of plays, wouldn't that completely shoot down anything burm (or anyone else that believes burm's flawed logic) about JuJo or MB3?

C'mon, I now some of you have all of JuJo's rookie games on tape/dvd... it's the offseason... go ahead and check it out.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

BTW Burm and the rest of the Jones is the best back in the NFL crew I responded to those numbers you were so proud of that were touted as being irrefutable. Seeing how a lack of response means something in you guys books Im interested as to why you have suddenly nothing to say.

 

[smarta5150]

Yes, he has.




Someone already replied to this, but I'll reinforce it. When 23 RBs get 1000 yards, and there's only 32 starting RBs in the league... yeah, 1000 yards is no big deal.




Nice. Trying to put EVERY RUNNINGBACK in the NFL into your 1000 yard argument.

Did you think anyone would actually buy that crap?

He had 15+ carries in a SINGLE game this season (T-Day vs. TB when we started running the clock out since it was a blow out). He had more in 05 because of JJ's injury. In those games it was a mix of 3-5 YPC... JJ-like.

Point, not big enough sample size for those who think he can carry the rock 15+ times a game with the same intensity he does on short yardage plays.


Sure there may be 32 "starting" RBs but in this day and age there are plenty of teams who split carries now. I think it is even more impressive now when I guy can rush for 1,000 yards while sharing the work load. How soon we all forget that the 32 starters are not carrying the ball 30 times a game like they used to (pretty convenient forgetfulness)... these guys are getting less carries and still producing 1,000 yard seasons.


EVERY running back? When guys like Maurice-Jones who was spelling Fred Taylor almost reaches 1,000 yards then why cant all the RBs be grouped into the 1,000 yard club?

 

[superpunk]

smarta - you have to look at all of Julius' stats, rather than cherry-picking one and saying "he splits carries, this ain't so bad."

It's not that his stats are bad, it's just that they are average to below average in almost every category. yards per carry, yards per game, total yards, if he's getting less carries, you'd hope his ypc would at least benefit. It doesn't, in any category.

I just don't see much hope that it's going to get any better than average for Julius. That doesn't mean he NEEDS replaced immediately, because you can do a far sight worse than average - but when you look at him having one year left, it's time to start planning for the future - and that's probably a future without Julius.

 

[randy932]

Quote:
Originally Posted by randy932
He was not allowed to show what he could do by his head coach.

He may very well be much better without Parcells insistence on having a robot for a RB.

It will definitely be interesting to see how he does if Wade will just let him run.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yet another mindless drone that blames the coach.

Even Parcells said that he "reined in" Julius.

He might be better without Parcell's insistence on a robot for a RB. Why wouldn't he be?

I guess you DON'T think it will be interesting to see how Julius does under a coach other than Parcells? Why is that?

I suggest you get to know a person before making snap judgements about them. I assure you I am far from a "drone", and I need no one to tell me what to think about the Cowboys.

 

[smarta5150]

smarta - you have to look at all of Julius' stats, rather than cherry-picking one and saying "he splits carries, this ain't so bad."

It's not that his stats are bad, it's just that they are average to below average in almost every category. yards per carry, yards per game, total yards, if he's getting less carries, you'd hope his ypc would at least benefit. It doesn't, in any category.

I just don't see much hope that it's going to get any better than average for Julius. That doesn't mean he NEEDS replaced immediately, because you can do a far sight worse than average - but when you look at him having one year left, it's time to start planning for the future - and that's probably a future without Julius.

IMO we have one more year to worry about that... people are talking about drafting a RB on day 1 when we could address other more needed depth.

If JJ doesn't pan out this season, we still have MBIII to carry the load if need be and then we can address a RB next year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Really what I am getting out of this is that a two back system is inherently better than a featured back. I need to look at the splits of guys like Larry JOhnson, Clinton Portis and Shaun Alexander and see if it holds up but thos LT numbers really go me thinking.

LT was not very good after 20 carries. Up to 20 he is lights out but after that he was well under 4 yards a carry. You replace those carries for 3.6 yards after twenty witha replacement 4.2 YPC and that is a pretty significant increase.

At 100 carries that is 60 yards more. Nothing to sniff at. Im going to look at more splits. i thinkg something akin to pitch counts could very well make a lot of sense.

 

[superpunk]

IMO we have one more year to worry about that... people are talking about drafting a RB on day 1 when we could address other more needed depth.

If JJ doesn't pan out this season, we still have MBIII to carry the load if need be and then we can address a RB next year.

If a blue-chipper falls, I tend to agree with them - we take Lynch or Peterson (anything could happen) in round 1. This was a pretty good offense last year. With a star RB, it has GREAT potential.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Even Parcells said that he "reined in" Julius.

He might be better without Parcell's insistence on a robot for a RB. Why wouldn't he be?

I guess you DON'T think it will be interesting to see how Julius does under a coach other than Parcells? Why is that?

I suggest you get to know a person before making snap judgements about them. I assure you I am far from a "drone", and I need no one to tell me what to think about the Cowboys.

You have no idea what Jones wsa coached to do or not to do. You have no idea what Anthony Lynn or Bill Parcells told Jones to do and as such you are making these statements based on nothing. You dont know so quit acting like you do.

i could just as easily say he was runing like that because he was dinged and was avoiding contact. That is a hypothesis of mine but i dont state it as fact because i have nothing to support it. Parroting the same inana unfounded nonsesne makes it no more true.

 

[Rack]

Really what I am getting out of this is that a two back system is inherently better than a featured back. I need to look at the splits of guys like Larry JOhnson, Clinton Portis and Shaun Alexander and see if it holds up but thos LT numbers really go me thinking.

LT was not very good after 20 carries. Up to 20 he is lights out but after that he was well under 4 yards a carry.

It's different per different teams/RBs though. The reason LT's numbers were down after 20 carries is probably cuz the Chargers were nursing a big lead at that time and were just running out the clock. When that happens it's easier for defenses to focus on one thing... stopping the run.


I wouldn't say there were too many games where JuJo's carries (after 20) were with us nursing a big lead. Two different RBs in two different situations. I don't know for a fact, nor do I care enough to actually look it up, but my instincts tell me that a the RB playing for the 14-2 team probably had a big lead more often when he got his 21st+ carry then the RB that played for the 9-7 team when he got his 21st + carry. If anyone's willing, that might be something to look into. Check what the score was at the time for each game when LT was getting his 21+ carry. Did the Chargers have a 2 TD+ lead? Then check it for JuJo. See if the situations match up. I'm betting they won't.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's different per different teams/RBs though. The reason LT's numbers were down after 20 carries is probably cuz the Chargers were nursing a big lead at that time and were just running out the clock. When that happens it's easier for defenses to focus on one thing... stopping the run.


I wouldn't say there were too many games where JuJo's carries (after 20) were with us nursing a big lead. Two different RBs in two different situations. I don't know for a fact, nor do I care enough to actually look it up, but my instincts tell me that a the RB playing for the 14-2 team probably had a big lead more often when he got his 21st+ carry then the RB that played for the 9-7 team when he got his 21st + carry. If anyone's willing, that might be something to look into. Check what the score was at the time for each game when LT was getting his 21+ carry. Did the Chargers have a 2 TD+ lead? Then check it for JuJo. See if the situations match up. I'm betting they won't.

That would mean going into the game logs and would be a horrendous pain in the ***. im going to look at the other 'featured' backs first and if thats not conclusive Ill dig deeper and try that.

 

[randy932]

You have no idea what Jones wsa coached to do or not to do. You have no idea what Anthony Lynn or Bill Parcells told Jones to do and as such you are making these statements based on nothing. You dont know so quit acting like you do.

i could just as easily say he was runing like that because he was dinged and was avoiding contact. That is a hypothesis of mine but i dont state it as fact because i have nothing to support it. Parroting the same inana unfounded nonsesne makes it no more true.

Wha...? You lost it or sumpin'? All I have to go on is what Parcells himself said. I heard Parcells with my own ears say that he reined in Julius, that he told Julius to go to the hole, as called. You can't sit there and tell me I didn't. I suppose it is possible that Parcells lied about that and never said it to Julius, somehow, I will believe him over you. I know what I heard, not to mention, what was reported by the beat writers too.

 

[superpunk]

Do your own damn research, Rack.

 

[Rack]

That would mean going into the game logs and would be a horrendous pain in the ***. im going to look at the other 'featured' backs first and if thats not conclusive Ill dig deeper and try that.

Which is precisely why I don't want to do it.


Not to mention I have a 5:25 AM flight tomorrow and have a lot of stuff to do today preparing stuff for while I'm away. In fact, I should be doing that stuff right now...

 

[Rack]

Wha...? You lost it or sumpin'? All I have to go on is what Parcells himself said. I heard Parcells with my own ears say that he reined in Julius, that he told Julius to go to the hole, as called. You can't sit there and tell me I didn't. I suppose it is possible that Parcells lied about that and never said it to Julius, somehow, I will believe him over you. I know what I heard, not to mention, what was reported by the beat writers too.

You heard Parcells say he turned JuJo into a Robot?

I must have missed that press conference.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dear lord Larry Johnson is a best.

After 15 he had 176 carries for 787 yards for 4.8 YPC.

Frank Gore 87 for 399 yards for 4.6 YPC but it should be noted that before carry 15 he was over 5 YPC

Stephen Jackson 114 carries for 566 yards for 5 yards a carry.

i am not even going to bother going on but this should give you an indication of how Jones comapares to the elite of the NFL.

Think STL would trade us JJ and Spears for Jackson?