DeCastro at 14 is stupid

[Zaxor]

Yes, but it isn't a case where teams can ask for a guard ranked 9.0 out of 10 or a CB ranked 9.0 out of 10. They have to take what's available. We could have a 9.0 Guard or a 7.0 CB or pass rusher (for example).

In the case of DeCastro going at #14, the Cowboys would be using the fact that Guards tend to slide a little to their advantage. If a DE or CB ranked as highly as DeCastro were available they most assuredly wouldn't be available at #14.

Do the Cowboys have a choice of Clairborne or DeCastro at #14? Because if they did, I would be saying take the corner and get a guard later... much like you are.

But no way Clairborne is around at even pick #6.

As it is, it looks like Dallas will be choosing between maybe the 3rd best corner, the 3rd best pass rusher or the very best guard in this draft... a guard prospect that looks to be one of the best prospects of the past decade.

To me it's an easy choice. I'd take the best G prospect in a decade over the 3rd best corner or pass rusher in this draft every single time.

Why choose from a position that has already been picked over when you can have the best G available? Just because it's at a position that other teams draft highly as well?

now we are getting into specific players which I can only speculate on but would it not be more prudent if Dallas can (now a partner has to be found) to move down in the draft and take than maybe a very good guard and perhaps a center with the extra pick?

 

[Doomsday101]

but dooms that is what we are talking about or at least what I am talking about...

extreme example but if you have the first pick in the draft and you spend it on a guard I don't care how good that guard is I am going to call you crazy...

what is the difference between a elite guard and a good guard...I am willing to bet the difference wouldn't make a hill of beans differance in the long run but the differance between a elite CB and a good CB can be staggering

an Elite CB can literally shut down one side of the field a good CB can limit the #1 receiving threat

where as in my mind an elite guard puts a guy on his butt almost every play the good guard moves the guy out the way almost every play

And if a top CB was there I would take him but that is likely not the case.

As for what makes an elite G the same thing that made guys like Hutchinson elite the fact they dominate in both run and pass, they are able to make the quick read and adjustments when defenders are stunting and twisting or they are sending exotic blitz package up the middle or delays and to be able to make the quick adjustment. It is the ability to use their strength and agility to pull and actually get on a defender to open a lane their ability to attack and use strength and technique to get leverage to push defenders out.

So I think your wrong that the difference between a good G and an elite player are different seems your just trying to simplify the role there is a reason why some will make it to the HOF and others will not and they don't go because of rings

There are some other guys I like but are they just the best in this draft or are they guys who would likely be high draft picks in any draft? In the case of DeCastro he is at a position that normally will not go as high in the 1st rd yet many scouts rate him higher why do you think they feel that way?

 

[Idgit]

And if a top CB was there I would take him but that is likely not the case.

As for what makes an elite G the same thing that made guys like Hutchinson elite the fact they dominate in both run and pass, they are able to make the quick read and adjustments when defenders are stunting and twisting or they are sending exotic blitz package up the middle or delays and to be able to make the quick adjustment. It is the ability to use their strength and agility to pull and actually get on a defender to open a lane their ability to attack and use strength and technique to get leverage to push defenders out.

So I think your wrong that the difference between a good G and an elite player are different seems your just trying to simplify the role there is a reason why some will make it to the HOF and others will not and they don't go because of rings

There are some other guys I like but are they just the best in this draft or are they guys who would likely be high draft picks in any draft? In the case of DeCastro he is at a position that normally will not go as high in the 1st rd yet many scouts rate him higher why do you think they feel that way?

If teams are paying OGs $8M a year, they can be taking them in the first round. I don't get why anyone would be reluctant to fill an OL spot with a mid-first round pick. Only if you have two equal players at two obvious positions of need to you give the edge to a pick based on position. Right?

 

[AsthmaField]

now we are getting into specific players which I can only speculate on but would it not be more prudent if Dallas can (now a partner has to be found) to move down in the draft and take than maybe a very good guard and perhaps a center with the extra pick?

If the Cowboys think DeCastro is head and shoulders above the other prospects, then no, I wouldn't want to trade down.

Like I've been wanting them to do for the last several years... just sit at your spot and take the best player on your board, unless you either get a knock-out of a deal or there is a player you love so much you have to move up for him (like they should have done with Max Unger).

 

[CCBoy]

And you still don't have a point.
You still trying to look up the definition of fact?

If you disagree with a point feel free to offer anything of use in debating it.

It can be stated as simply as this...

There are smaller degrees in getting advantages in today's NFL. When you can get a marked advantage, you grab it. If that is at a line's interior, you get that advantage.

Even with a strong group of receivers, running backs, and quarterback assembled, they still have to have holes and protection. Whether you run inside or out, or throw 5,000 yards a season.

You still need a hole and time...to use your a list of 'skill' players and the traditional high picks.

If one already has good receivers, running backs, and a franchise quarterback, then you target where your needs can be filled.

When a shut down cornerback, or elite defensive lineman is not available, then you grab the difference maker. If that is guard...so be it.

Myself, I would hedge considerations and grab Kuechly at MLB. By the way, what is the highest taken at that position as well by Dallas in recent drafting?

 

[CCBoy]

As for what makes an elite G the same thing that made guys like Hutchinson elite the fact they dominate in both run and pass, they are able to make the quick read and adjustments when defenders are stunting and twisting or they are sending exotic blitz package up the middle or delays and to be able to make the quick adjustment. It is the ability to use their strength and agility to pull and actually get on a defender to open a lane their ability to attack and use strength and technique to get leverage to push defenders out.

QUOTE]

I think that the focus by a trained scout could make this type of determination with today's tools of quality filming. One, on the top levels of the draft, would need to cross compare players with tendency diferences against the same opponents. Or against players with similar levels of playing skills. That would define current differences. Then the combine would clarify the top developmental base.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No they are not they are still a team building but a big part of their offensive has been the play of their line that has helped a QB who most wrote off and a running game that has helped to get them to the NFC Championship game. In large part because of the play up front.

I'll take Dallas skill players over the 9ers any day of the week but where the 9ers show very good strenght is on the OL and Mike Iupati is a big part of that

Up front is fair but is it Offense that really got San Francisco to the NFC Championship Game? One can contest that it was the Defense that was the strength of the the 49ers. Ranked 4th overall in the NFL and 1st against the run. Offensively, they were only something like 28th.

 

[Zaxor]

If teams are paying OGs $8M a year, they can be taking them in the first round. I don't get why anyone would be reluctant to fill an OL spot with a mid-first round pick. Only if you have two equal players at two obvious positions of need to you give the edge to a pick based on position. Right?

that is correct...and that is what I would do to an extent

lets say on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being the highest if a DE/OLB who are 7-8-9-10 are extremely hard to find and I have an OG who is a 8.5 and a DE who is a 7.5 I very well might take the DE/OLB knowing that I have a pretty good shot of getting a OG further down the draft that might rate 7.3...

I think you have to look at a draft in its entirety if I take that 8.5 guard but it forces me to have to take a DE/OLB that rates 5.4 because of extreme need on the team than I am wasting draft picks and hurting my team in the long run...

While all positions on the football field are important some are more important than others where I might be able to get by with an avg guard that might not be so at LT

where I might be able to get by with an avg center that might not be so at CB

were as a great guard isn't going to make too much more of a difference than a good one

now if when our 14th pick comes and Decastro is sitting there ( which first rounder did he block again?) and everyone else grades out to be not that much different than the ones behind them by that I mean you have 6 CB/6OLB/6 DE etc all within the #. (something) range so it looks like you are going to get value for your next pick than go ahead and get him (what the Cowboys do not get in FA they have to try and address in the draft) the Cowboys do not have the luxury at the moment to pick BPA..

 

[CCBoy]

Here are the defensive ends with top grades:

01 Quinton Coples DE 6-6 285 North Carolina 7.5 C U
02 Fletcher Cox DE 6-4 295 Mississippi State 6.9 D
03 Jared Crick DE 6-6 285 Nebraska 6.8 X
04 Cam Johnson DE 6-4 270 Virginia 6.8


Here are the defensive tackles with top grades:

01 Michael Brockers DT 6-6 306 Louisiana State 8.0 D J
02 Devon Still DT 6-5 310 Penn State 7.0 C
03 Brandon Thompson DT 6-2 310 Clemson 7.0
04 Alameda Ta'amu DT 6-3 337 Washington 6.9
05 Dontari Poe DT 6-5 350 Memphis 6.8 D

Here are the offensive guards with top grades:

01 David DeCastro OG 6-5 310 Stanford 8.5
02 Cordy Glenn OG 6-5 348 Georgia 7.5
03 Amini Silatolu OG 6-3 324 Midwestern State 6.9 D
04 Brandon Washington OG 6-4 320 Miami 6.9 D
05 Brandon Brooks OG 6-5 343 Miami (Ohio) 6.8 D

Here are the offensive centers with top grades:

1 Peter Konz C 6-5 315 Wisconsin 7.0 J
02 Ben Jones C 6-3 316 Georgia 6.8 P

And here are the top cornerbacks with top grades:

01 Morris Claiborne CB 6-0 185 Louisiana State 8.5 J
02 Dre Kirkpatrick CB 6-3 192 Alabama 7.0 J
03 Janoris Jenkins CB 5-10 182 North Alabama 7.0 C
04 Brandon Boykin CB 5-10 183 Georgia 6.9
05 Jamell Fleming CB 5-11 191 Oklahoma 6.8 C
06 Chase Minnifield CB 6-0 185 Virginia 6.8 B
07 Josh Norman CB 6-0 190 Coastal Carolina 6.8
08 Casey Hayward CB 5-11 188 Vanderbilt 6.8

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/scouting_department.html

Now, what do you do?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Here are the defensive ends with top grades:

01 Quinton Coples DE 6-6 285 North Carolina 7.5 C U
02 Fletcher Cox DE 6-4 295 Mississippi State 6.9 D
03 Jared Crick DE 6-6 285 Nebraska 6.8 X
04 Cam Johnson DE 6-4 270 Virginia 6.8


Here are the defensive tackles with top grades:

01 Michael Brockers DT 6-6 306 Louisiana State 8.0 D J
02 Devon Still DT 6-5 310 Penn State 7.0 C
03 Brandon Thompson DT 6-2 310 Clemson 7.0
04 Alameda Ta'amu DT 6-3 337 Washington 6.9
05 Dontari Poe DT 6-5 350 Memphis 6.8 D

Here are the offensive guards with top grades:

01 David DeCastro OG 6-5 310 Stanford 8.5
02 Cordy Glenn OG 6-5 348 Georgia 7.5
03 Amini Silatolu OG 6-3 324 Midwestern State 6.9 D
04 Brandon Washington OG 6-4 320 Miami 6.9 D
05 Brandon Brooks OG 6-5 343 Miami (Ohio) 6.8 D

Here are the offensive centers with top grades:

1 Peter Konz C 6-5 315 Wisconsin 7.0 J
02 Ben Jones C 6-3 316 Georgia 6.8 P

And here are the top cornerbacks with top grades:

01 Morris Claiborne CB 6-0 185 Louisiana State 8.5 J
02 Dre Kirkpatrick CB 6-3 192 Alabama 7.0 J
03 Janoris Jenkins CB 5-10 182 North Alabama 7.0 C
04 Brandon Boykin CB 5-10 183 Georgia 6.9
05 Jamell Fleming CB 5-11 191 Oklahoma 6.8 C
06 Chase Minnifield CB 6-0 185 Virginia 6.8 B
07 Josh Norman CB 6-0 190 Coastal Carolina 6.8
08 Casey Hayward CB 5-11 188 Vanderbilt 6.8

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/scouting_department.html

Now, what do you do?

I don't think you can answer the question you are asking until after the combine. This list will change after the combine, to an extent. However, you pose a great question.

 

[burmafrd]

Here are the defensive ends with top grades:

01 Quinton Coples DE 6-6 285 North Carolina 7.5 C U
02 Fletcher Cox DE 6-4 295 Mississippi State 6.9 D
03 Jared Crick DE 6-6 285 Nebraska 6.8 X
04 Cam Johnson DE 6-4 270 Virginia 6.8


Here are the defensive tackles with top grades:

01 Michael Brockers DT 6-6 306 Louisiana State 8.0 D J
02 Devon Still DT 6-5 310 Penn State 7.0 C
03 Brandon Thompson DT 6-2 310 Clemson 7.0
04 Alameda Ta'amu DT 6-3 337 Washington 6.9
05 Dontari Poe DT 6-5 350 Memphis 6.8 D

Here are the offensive guards with top grades:

01 David DeCastro OG 6-5 310 Stanford 8.5
02 Cordy Glenn OG 6-5 348 Georgia 7.5
03 Amini Silatolu OG 6-3 324 Midwestern State 6.9 D
04 Brandon Washington OG 6-4 320 Miami 6.9 D
05 Brandon Brooks OG 6-5 343 Miami (Ohio) 6.8 D

Here are the offensive centers with top grades:

1 Peter Konz C 6-5 315 Wisconsin 7.0 J
02 Ben Jones C 6-3 316 Georgia 6.8 P

And here are the top cornerbacks with top grades:

01 Morris Claiborne CB 6-0 185 Louisiana State 8.5 J
02 Dre Kirkpatrick CB 6-3 192 Alabama 7.0 J
03 Janoris Jenkins CB 5-10 182 North Alabama 7.0 C
04 Brandon Boykin CB 5-10 183 Georgia 6.9
05 Jamell Fleming CB 5-11 191 Oklahoma 6.8 C
06 Chase Minnifield CB 6-0 185 Virginia 6.8 B
07 Josh Norman CB 6-0 190 Coastal Carolina 6.8
08 Casey Hayward CB 5-11 188 Vanderbilt 6.8

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/scouting_department.html

Now, what do you do?

The only other player over 8 that we would have a shot at is Brockers, who is clearly much more of a risk. Spears part deux. Claiborne will be gone top 10 at the very least.

This list makes DeCastro even more of the best choice.

 

[Zaxor]

Here are the defensive ends with top grades:

01 Quinton Coples DE 6-6 285 North Carolina 7.5 C U
02 Fletcher Cox DE 6-4 295 Mississippi State 6.9 D
03 Jared Crick DE 6-6 285 Nebraska 6.8 X
04 Cam Johnson DE 6-4 270 Virginia 6.8


Here are the defensive tackles with top grades:

01 Michael Brockers DT 6-6 306 Louisiana State 8.0 D J
02 Devon Still DT 6-5 310 Penn State 7.0 C
03 Brandon Thompson DT 6-2 310 Clemson 7.0
04 Alameda Ta'amu DT 6-3 337 Washington 6.9
05 Dontari Poe DT 6-5 350 Memphis 6.8 D

Here are the offensive guards with top grades:

01 David DeCastro OG 6-5 310 Stanford 8.5
02 Cordy Glenn OG 6-5 348 Georgia 7.5
03 Amini Silatolu OG 6-3 324 Midwestern State 6.9 D
04 Brandon Washington OG 6-4 320 Miami 6.9 D
05 Brandon Brooks OG 6-5 343 Miami (Ohio) 6.8 D

Here are the offensive centers with top grades:

1 Peter Konz C 6-5 315 Wisconsin 7.0 J
02 Ben Jones C 6-3 316 Georgia 6.8 P

And here are the top cornerbacks with top grades:

01 Morris Claiborne CB 6-0 185 Louisiana State 8.5 J
02 Dre Kirkpatrick CB 6-3 192 Alabama 7.0 J
03 Janoris Jenkins CB 5-10 182 North Alabama 7.0 C
04 Brandon Boykin CB 5-10 183 Georgia 6.9
05 Jamell Fleming CB 5-11 191 Oklahoma 6.8 C
06 Chase Minnifield CB 6-0 185 Virginia 6.8 B
07 Josh Norman CB 6-0 190 Coastal Carolina 6.8
08 Casey Hayward CB 5-11 188 Vanderbilt 6.8

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/scouting_department.html

Now, what do you do?

like I stated above -->IF<-- I have to have a guard and a DE/OLB and I can only take the top spot once than have to pick again..My picks would be Coples 7.5 than Glenn 7.5

not Decastro 8.5 than Cox 6.9
there are lots of 6 point something DE/OLB out there not many 7 and above

 

[CCBoy]

The only other player over 8 that we would have a shot at is Brockers, who is clearly much more of a risk. Spears part deux. Claiborne will be gone top 10 at the very least.

This list makes DeCastro even more of the best choice.

If DeCastro is that striking then, why wouldn't Arizona not take him the pick before Dallas? If they do, then what is the alternative, beyond the usual board response of stupid Jerry?

 

[CCBoy]

like I stated above -->IF<-- I have to have a guard and a DE/OLB and I can only take the top spot once than have to pick again..My picks would be Coples 7.5 than Glenn 7.5

not Decastro 8.5 than Cox 6.9
there are lots of 6 point something DE/OLB out there not many 7 and above

There is a team with a need at defensive end above Dallas as well, so he will probably be gone by the first Dallas pick, which would lead to where?

The cheat notes on player mobility are on the referenced internet site...

 

[burmafrd]

If DeCastro is that striking then, why wouldn't Arizona not take him the pick before Dallas? If they do, then what is the alternative, beyond the usual board response of stupid Jerry?

trade down

 

[MichaelWinicki]

trade down

Yeah, that's what I would do UNLESS one of the top-two corner-backs is there.

 

[Zaxor]

There is a team with a need at defensive end above Dallas as well, so he will probably be gone by the first Dallas pick, which would lead to where?

The cheat notes on player mobility are on the referenced internet site...

good question you have to tell me who is there at the pick than I can tell you what "I" would do.. but "I" isn't a real GM nor is "I's" lively hood on the line. So "I" might be more open to taken risks

 

[Doomsday101]

Up front is fair but is it Offense that really got San Francisco to the NFC Championship Game? One can contest that it was the Defense that was the strength of the the 49ers. Ranked 4th overall in the NFL and 1st against the run. Offensively, they were only something like 28th.

Defense played a big part it does not change the fact the strenght in their offense was along the line. I want both offense and defense to play quality football and I think the majority of this off season will address defense but sorry I think building an OL is critical to this team. We could build a damn good OL with 2 young men in Smith and DeCastros who could be major parts for years. So when some one tells me well you don't take a G at 14 I say you take top players and DeCastros is just that

 

[Stash]

good question you have to tell me who is there at the pick than I can tell you what "I" would do.. but "I" isn't a real GM nor is "I's" lively hood on the line. So "I" might be more open to taken risks

You and Jerry Jones have more in common than you know.

 

[Doomsday101]

If DeCastro is that striking then, why wouldn't Arizona not take him the pick before Dallas? If they do, then what is the alternative, beyond the usual board response of stupid Jerry?

That is why you don't go in the draft with just a single player in mind. For me I see other options in Rd 1 depending one what we do in FA and who is on the board at our pick. Upshaw, Ingram, Kirkpatrick and DeCastro all are quality fits for the Cowboys. As I mentioned above if I had to say out of these 4 guys who will likely have the best NFL career? I would say DeCastro