DMN BLOG: Shockey to the saints?

[McCordsville Cowboy]

He Did overpower and stiff arm A.J. Hawk to the ground. He pwned him a few times if IIRC.

He did.. It was pretty sweet...

 

[JPM]

cause when you're wrong, you're wrong. changing the story is something i stopped doing in jr high.

you made a statement, it was corrected, now you're trying to ammend your statement to still be "right" when it's obvious you're wrong.

just say "damn, i was wrong on that." and get back to hating on the next thread.

He can't help it. It's his MO.

Roy was "beaten deep" ONE TIME last season -- a 28-yard catch by Ben Watson. He never allowed a catch longer than that, and he never allowed another catch more than 20 yards downfield.




No, they were not. The few times Roy came out of a game, it almost always was an early down in a 3-4, single-safety defense. He played almost every single play (other than in the game he missed) on third downs, or when we were in a nickel or dime defense, or when the opponent was throwing most of the time to catch up. Those are the obvious passing situations, and Roy was on the field.

Facts suck.

 

[JPM]

He Did overpower and stiff arm A.J. Hawk to the ground. He pwned him a few times if IIRC.

I remember Barber almost knocking Harrison's helmet and head off his shoulders.

 

[dbair1967]

That would be scary! I've always thought that Jeremy Shockey was one of the most underused players in this league;

yeah, so does he

how he doesn't average 80 catches, 1,000 yards and 8 tds a year is astounding to me.

maybe it has something to do with all the easy ones he drops

Even though I cant stand the guy as a person, he is the epitome of an idiot meathead, I have to say he is an amazing talent. If Marques Colston teamed up with Jeremy Shockey? That would suck to have to defend against

the Giants got better as a team once Shockey got hurt...pretty much says it all

David

 

[theebs]

He Did overpower and stiff arm A.J. Hawk to the ground. He pwned him a few times if IIRC.

I was going to respond to that post but it is pretty laughable.

Witten incorporated a new move last year, He must have learned it from barber. He stiff armed a ton of guys last year. He got A great one on Dawkins in the home game against the eagles. He basically raped dawkins.

He did this repeatedly. Everytime he caught a ball last year he threw his right arm out pushed someone out of the way. Ironically I am building a little piece for the closing of my video and I have a little montage of witten doing this.

And if you need a real chuckle, witten got open by throwing a stiff arm into harrison's face and then making a great catch vs new england.

 

[theebs]

Roy was "beaten deep" ONE TIME last season -- a 28-yard catch by Ben Watson. He never allowed a catch longer than that, and he never allowed another catch more than 20 yards downfield.




No, they were not. The few times Roy came out of a game, it almost always was an early down in a 3-4, single-safety defense. He played almost every single play (other than in the game he missed) on third downs, or when we were in a nickel or dime defense, or when the opponent was throwing most of the time to catch up. Those are the obvious passing situations, and Roy was on the field.

I am not debating the stats. I do however wonder how they corelate roys responsibility in that Dime "Cowboys" defense where he is a linebacker to his responsibility.

He was almost always in zone in that set up and never made any plays the whole year on any ball. Off the top of my head I can say the catch to boss that you referenced went right across roys face while he was sitting deep in a zone. I dont know what other responsibility he had other than that? Thats on him and reeves and burnett. INexcusable.

And then burress TD in the 4th qtr to make it 38-35 in the opener, same situation roy in zone standing there and the ball is thrown right across his face.

His and reeves inability to stop commiting the same mental mistakes is more than enough to criticize roy. I like roy. I hope he bounces back but he was flat out brain dead at some critical times this year. That playoff game, on the drive at the half him and reeves should have been sent back to the jv for that, reeves is gone and I cant imagine in two years if roy doesnt play better he wont be sent packing either.

Please dont confuse this with getting upset with roy for getting beat by shockey or cooley. That is a matchup he cant and never does win. Not much you can do when he is lineup across from them like a cornerback.

I hope roy bounces back this year. If he struggles in camp I have a feeling Zach thomas will be playing his spot in that cowboy defense.

 

[iceberg]

There's no excuse for you, clueless guy.

Obviously, you were wrong.

As usual.

Shockey has had three good games against us in six years.

This year, when he had a good game against us, he had only four catches for 23 yards against Roy. He had eight for 106 when Roy wasn't covering him.

And the only other time he had a big game against us, it was because of a 63-yard catch against Scott Fujita.

stay down rampage, it's getting ugly for you out here....

 

[superpunk]

I was under the impression that this would be a thread about Jeremy Shockey.

 

[AdamJT13]

Off the top of my head I can say the catch to boss that you referenced went right across roys face while he was sitting deep in a zone. I dont know what other responsibility he had other than that?

Roy was covering Jacobs, who was in the flat at the 20-yard line. That was his responsibility. Boss caught the ball at the 7. Burnett trailed Boss the entire play, and Boss caught the ball right in front of Reeves. Roy had nothing to do with covering Boss -- that was on only James and Reeves.

That playoff game, on the drive at the half him and reeves should have been sent back to the jv for that

Just because Roy was in the vicinity on some of those plays doesn't mean he was responsible for allowing any catches. Almost that entire drive was on Reeves. There were seven plays on the drive, and five of them were passes right at Reeves -- two incompletions and three catches for 52 yards, plus a 15-yard facemask. The other two plays were a pass batted down at the line and the TD pass against Ken Hamlin.

 

[iceberg]

I was under the impression that this would be a thread about Jeremy Shockey.

yea, and i'm sure you always stick to the thread topic in your postings.

 

[theebs]

Roy was covering Jacobs, who was in the flat at the 20-yard line. That was his responsibility. Boss caught the ball at the 7. Burnett trailed Boss the entire play, and Boss caught the ball right in front of Reeves. Roy had nothing to do with covering Boss -- that was on only James and Reeves.



Just because Roy was in the vicinity on some of those plays doesn't mean he was responsible for allowing any catches. Almost that entire drive was on Reeves. There were seven plays on the drive, and five of them were passes right at Reeves -- two incompletions and three catches for 52 yards, plus a 15-yard facemask. The other two plays were a pass batted down at the line and the TD pass against Ken Hamlin.

Just in the vicinity? The balls were going right past his head. Especially the TD against us in the opener, burress TD. THere was no one in the flat. The ball was hiked and thrown right at him.

As far as the play to boss. Is roy in zone or man there? I have been thinking he was in zone, and if so he is partly responsible. Yes he was responsible for jacobs who was basically still at the line of scrimmage in the flat and roy was about 10 yards deep. I just think if he is in zone he is also responsible. If it is man coverage, than yea roy is off the hook completely.

Roy was right there every catch that was made on reeves. I guess we would have to know the defensive calls to resolve if he was responsible on a couple of those.

Oh and I wouldnt be too quick to cite Chris Canty's batted pass. Had Manning completed that, it might have been 7. Guess who was covering the intended wr? Roy. He was covering Steve Smith who was dragging right across the middle of the field and roy was about 4 to 5 yards behind smith on that play. Had canty not batted that down, its 7 to smith on Roy.

And yes the biggest culprit is Reeves, there is no doubt. Like I said in another thread, Reeves never ever learned. He gave up that same pass going back as far as the preseason where he gave up a 4th and 4 completion 15 yards down the sideline right in front of his face, the vikings had no timeouts and there were I think 11 seconds left in the half. Bollinger to mcmullen, right in front of reeves. No doubt he is the biggest culprit and no doubt his abysmal play has been a large factor in roy struggling.

As I have said many times before Roy is a better player when newman lines up on his side. And the reasons are obvious, but Roy is not an innocent party by any means. Again I like Roy, and I hate the Roy argument. But he was not a good player last year. Hopefully a better corner in front of him this year and the same kind of pass rush we saw last year from this team and he will bounce back. I am pulling for him.

 

[JPM]

I was under the impression that this would be a thread about Jeremy Shockey.

Silly message board poster.

 

[EPL0c0]

than it will just be kevin boss taking Roy to school just like in the playoff game.

Better not be

 

[Rampage]

Roy was "beaten deep" ONE TIME last season -- a 28-yard catch by Ben Watson. He never allowed a catch longer than that, and he never allowed another catch more than 20 yards downfield.




No, they were not. The few times Roy came out of a game, it almost always was an early down in a 3-4, single-safety defense. He played almost every single play (other than in the game he missed) on third downs, or when we were in a nickel or dime defense, or when the opponent was throwing most of the time to catch up. Those are the obvious passing situations, and Roy was on the field.

1st off maybe because when we go into the nickel he's only asked to cover the rb or fb cause he can't cover a wr or TE. they rarely run routes that long. than we were forced to play a lot of zone with him last year cause wade/stewart knows he can't cover. there was a lot of plays last year when the boys were playing zone and reeves and roy were supposed to help each other out. yet so many passes were thrown over reeves and under roy for the completion. i know there was one at least 20 yards that you're not counting. reeves is gone 1 problem fixed. hell jerry hired campo to be roy's freaking personel coach cause he sucks so bad. you got any stats for that?

 

[EPL0c0]

Anybody notice that Eli steadily improved on the field after Shockey was lost for the season?

My friends and I did notice that Eli looked more comfortable and relaxed on the field. I wonder how much had to do with not having to put up with Shockey's screaming and whining. Boss stepped up and you never saw him throwing his helmet, screaming or b*tching the way Shockey did.

 

[HardHittin'Witten]

Boss caught one pass in the playoff game, and it came against Burnett and Reeves.

Now why do you want to mess this up with facts?

 

[JPM]

1st off maybe because when we go into the nickel he's only asked to cover the rb or fb cause he can't cover a wr or TE. they rarely run routes that long. than we were forced to play a lot of zone with him last year cause wade/stewart knows he can't cover. there was a lot of plays last year when the boys were playing zone and reeves and roy were supposed to help each other out. yet so many passes were thrown over reeves and under roy for the completion. i know there was one at least 20 yards that you're not counting. reeves is gone 1 problem fixed. hell jerry hired campo to be roy's freaking personel coach cause he sucks so bad. you got any stats for that?

Jesus Christ you don't give up do you.
Adam is going to come in here and explain what a zone is now and you still will insist you are correct. Jerry hired Campo cause he's a good secondary coach, you do know that he had that job under Jimmy, right.
Please name a strong safety that can cover a WR one-on-one. Should be in the Roy Williams WR thread telling Hos he is wrong casue we are going to trade both our #1 to move up for DMAC ?

 

[alancdc]

Does Jim also know that Rick Flair had to retire? Whoooooooooooo!

 

[Rampage]

Jesus Christ you don't give up do you.
Adam is going to come in here and explain what a zone is now and you still will insist you are correct. Jerry hired Campo cause he's a good secondary coach, you do know that he had that job under Jimmy, right.
Please name a strong safety that can cover a WR one-on-one. Should be in the Roy Williams WR thread telling Hos he is wrong casue we are going to trade both our #1 to move up for DMAC ?

another adam ball licker i see. to your zone comment, we had to dumb down our defense to try to "hide" roy. if he proves me wrong than i'm wrong and you can go back to ball licking. yes i know he was a db coach under jimmy and if you think jerry bringing him back had nothing to do with roy i'm just gonna have to laugh at you. deon grant did against washington in the playoffs last year. the safety for the packers did last year in the playoffs too. oh no! i disagreed with hos on his opinion of who we will draft/sign. i know he's another one who you get hard for.

 

[AdamJT13]

Just in the vicinity? The balls were going right past his head. Especially the TD against us in the opener, burress TD. THere was no one in the flat. The ball was hiked and thrown right at him.

I didn't say anything about Burress' TD in the first game of the season.

As far as the play to boss. Is roy in zone or man there? I have been thinking he was in zone, and if so he is partly responsible.

Boss wasn't in Roy's zone, so how would Roy be responsible?

Yes he was responsible for jacobs who was basically still at the line of scrimmage in the flat and roy was about 10 yards deep.

The line of scrimmage was the 23. Roy lined up at the 20, then dropped a little as the wide receiver on his side ran past him into a deeper zone. Jacobs came out of the backfield into Roy's zone. When the ball was thrown, Jacobs was at the 20, and Roy was at the 17. Roy reacted to the ball being thrown, took a few steps back, then leaped for the ball just inside the 13. Boss caught the ball at the 7. Burnett trailed Boss the entire play and was right behind him when the ball was caught. Boss caught the ball in Reeves' zone, right in front of Reeves. There is NO coverage scheme that would have Roy cover one guy at the 20 and another guy at the 7.

Roy was right there every catch that was made on reeves.

He was in the vicinity because he was playing on the same side of the field. He wasn't responsible for the coverage. On the first one, Roy was 1 yard off the center when the ball was snapped, faking a blitz. He dropped into the middle zone and was still well inside the numbers when the ball was thrown to the sideline. The second one was a short sideline hook against Reeves. Roy was inside, near the tight end. And I already explained what happened on Boss' catch. There were two incompletions against Reeves on the drive, and Roy wasn't near Reeves on either play (one hook when Eli bounced the pass and one post into the end zone).

Oh and I wouldnt be too quick to cite Chris Canty's batted pass. Had Manning completed that, it might have been 7. Guess who was covering the intended wr? Roy. He was covering Steve Smith who was dragging right across the middle of the field and roy was about 4 to 5 yards behind smith on that play. Had canty not batted that down, its 7 to smith on Roy.

What? Roy was right with Smith and almost certainly would have made the tackle if Smith had caught the ball. If he somehow got away from Roy, Smith still had 20 yards to go and four or five other defenders he'd have to get past. It's a huge stretch to say it would have been a touchdown if Canty hadn't batted it down. There's no guarantee Eli would have even thrown a catchable pass, or that Smith would have caught it, let alone that he would have gotten past Roy, Burnett, Hamlin, Watkins, Reeves and possibly Henry to score a touchdown.