DMN: BLOG: What would you give up for (Det) Roy Williams?

[Beast_from_East]

Hey, we can't trade a first for Roy... We need both of those for McFadden.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You do realize that at the age of 39, Rice had 83 catches for 1139 yards, and at 40 he put up 92 catches for 1211 yards.

So after he had "lost a step" and was playing against these superior corners he still put up great numbers.

more like 2 steps lol

 

[windward]

more like 2 steps lol

Good point about Schmitt. He just seems so tempting. If we go with Cricket then so be it.

 

[gimmesix]

Bring in Roy Williams and Shaun Rogers by trading the No. 28 pick and our fifth-rounder to Detroit.

Take a CB with pick No. 22.

Trade Jason Ferguson, Terry Glenn and Anthony Fasano to Miami to swap positions in the second and third rounds. Take RB Felix Jones in second and FB Peyton Hillis/Owen Schmidt in third.

That's all.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

mod is looking noice Rack

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Good point about Schmitt. He just seems so tempting. If we go with Cricket then so be it.

my draft is how you do it

 

[windward]

my draft is how you do it

BTW Dwight Lowery is a player. Everytime I've seen the guy play (being a WAC man and what not) he's come up big.

I'm also going to ride Rubin til the draft because he would be a nice replacement for Fergy down the road.


Ratliff Ferguson Canty
Hatcher Rubin Spears

 

[vlad]

I think anyone who wouldn't trade a 1st round (obviously you offer lower and see what happens) for an established young WR with tremendous upside is off their rocker. Has anyone even considered the Cowboys recent draft history with players drafted higher than th 11th pick? Come on, you can't see value if you can't see that.

So judging from last year as an example some would rather take chances on guys like Robert Meachem, Craig Davis or Anthony Gonzalez? Sure, Dwayne Bowe looks like a stud, but I'd argue it will take him a few years to reach his prime, and even then he does not have the physical upside of RW. Roy Williams already has the physical maturity, he just needs to be around a successful organization and quarterback IMHO (though I guess it doesn't sound humble )

This guy is in the Michael Irvin mode, big-bodied, catches with hands and body equally well (think of shielding with his body and catching a slant) and has game changing speed. I hope we do get him.

 

[Rack]

You do realize that at the age of 39, Rice had 83 catches for 1139 yards, and at 40 he put up 92 catches for 1211 yards.

So after he had "lost a step" and was playing against these superior corners he still put up great numbers.

Exactly.

An old "Washed up" Rice still produced good numbers against the "Superior" CBs, yet he wouldn't be any better then Roy Williams if he (RIce) Started out at the same time as Roy.

Ridiculous.

Same with Irvin. He dominated back when DBs were allowed to cover and hit, he sure as HELL would dominate today's NFL. Even moreso.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

BTW Dwight Lowery is a player. Everytime I've seen the guy play (being a WAC man and what not) he's come up big.

I'm also going to ride Rubin til the draft because he would be a nice replacement for Fergy down the road.


Ratliff Ferguson Canty
Hatcher Rubin Spears

I gotta check Rube out

and yeah, Lowery is a player, hope NFL people sleep on him

 

[theogt]

You do realize that at the age of 39, Rice had 83 catches for 1139 yards, and at 40 he put up 92 catches for 1211 yards.

So after he had "lost a step" and was playing against these superior corners he still put up great numbers.

Yes, I do. I didn't say he'd suck.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

Yes, I do. I didn't say he'd suck.

I never said you did. But I'm pointing out that a slower, older Jerry Rice, playing against "superior" corners (who have less room to be physical than they did in Irvin's hey day) still put up great numbers.

The point was essentially to show you that Irvin would most certainly still have been a dominant force in todays NFL.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

market value for a WR is not a first much less a first plus more.

moss was traded for a 4th and welker was traded for a 2nd under odious circumstances last year.

how anyone could propose a 1st and a second after the galloway debacle at the end of the last century is beyond me.

actually who was the last player to be traded for a first anyway? draft picks are good cap values especially after the top 20 or so and as such they have more value than a veteran.

 

[theogt]

I never said you did. But I'm pointing out that a slower, older Jerry Rice, playing against "superior" corners (who have less room to be physical than they did in Irvin's hey day) still put up great numbers.

Great numbers? They're incredibly impressive for a 39 year old, but they're not great numbers by any stretch of the imagination.

The point was essentially to show you that Irvin would most certainly still have been a dominant force in todays NFL.

How on earth was it an attempt to show that?

 

[theogt]

moss was traded for a 4th

Moss was also in his early 30s when the trade was made. Do they expect to sign him to a 6 year contract? Of course not.

and welker was traded for a 2nd under odious circumstances last year.

This actually proves the point that young receivers are costly. He cost a 2nd round pick and he'd had the following seasons at the time:

2004: 0 catches for 0 yards
2005: 29 catches for 434 yards
2006: 67 catches for 687 yards

Hardly impressive. And he'll never be a #1 receiver. Yet he fetched a 2nd rounder.

how anyone could propose a 1st and a second after the galloway debacle at the end of the last century is beyond me.

Giving away the #9 and #19 is quite a different situation than giving away a #28 and #60. Actually, according to the draft value charts, it'd be close to giving three #28 selections and one #60 selection. So, yeah, it's nothing alike.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

Great numbers? They're incredibly impressive for a 39 year old, but they're not great numbers by any stretch of the imagination.

How on earth was it an attempt to show that?

Well if a 39 year old can put up numbers like that against the type of competition you proposed is out there, it shows that a guy like Irvin would be just as dominant as he was, if not more in todays NFL. With CBs givin MUCH LESS room to play physical, a guy like Irvin would overpower most of todays DBs.

 

[CF74]

Well my way of thinking is this....we are a team that is real close to being in the big dance and winning it. ^he last time we were tis close JJ & JJ went out and bought Haley which put us over the top.

Now lay all the smack down on me you want..I give a rats..behind, at this point in time you need a player or that will come in and be an impact... NOW!!!! not sit on the bench and run wind sprints, watch film, draw plays on a chalk board for two years.

Hell whether he's worth a top five or a 28th pick plus a second round draft choice as far as I am concerned is moot. Give Tony another weapon.

Plus let's draft a psychiatrist to tell us what the hell is wrong w/this team in December and the playoffs.

I would trade our 28th pick straight up for him, nothing more, but definitely less.

 

[theogt]

Well if a 39 year old can put up numbers like that against the type of competition you proposed is out there, it shows that a guy like Irvin would be just as dominant as he was, if not more in todays NFL.

My point wasn't that he wouldn't be as dominant. But he wouldn't be significantly more dominant today, such that he'd blow away Roy Williams' numbers as to make a comparison unreasonable as Rack suggested.

 

[Rack]

market value for a WR is not a first much less a first plus more.

moss was traded for a 4th and welker was traded for a 2nd under odious circumstances last year.

how anyone could propose a 1st and a second after the galloway debacle at the end of the last century is beyond me.

actually who was the last player to be traded for a first anyway? draft picks are good cap values especially after the top 20 or so and as such they have more value than a veteran.

My point wasn't that he wouldn't be as dominant. But he wouldn't be significantly more dominant today, such that he'd blow away Roy Williams' numbers as to make a comparison unreasonable as Rack suggested.

Well your "point" is crap cuz not only would he be "as" dominant, he'd actually be MORE dominant knowing DBs wouldn't be able to touch him downfield and an already fearless Playmaker would have had a field day over the middle knowing safeties are now severely hampered with not being able to hit a "Defenseless" WR.

 

[CF74]

Somebody refresh my memory but wasn't Galloway a rookie when we got him? And didn't he break his leg twice? If the answer is yes to either then it's a moot point.



The whole Irvin/Rice debate is also pointless because both would have to change their style in todays game regardless, but assuming they were transplanted in time to do this, giving their youth and skill I'm quite sure they would adapt. Who cares ladies...