DMN: Will McClay builds reputation

chicago JK

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,892
Reaction score
1,452
He did say Parcells way didn't work. Sorry, I didn't save a quote from 7 years ago but I know he said it.

I don't see any difference whatsoever in the way the team is run now vs. pre-Parcells. Jerry is as large and in charge as he's ever been. Heck he was even quoted this year that that's the case.

Which kind of goes along with Bill's comment when he left here. "Before long you won't even know I was here."

I know you guys like to pretend and live in a fantasy land to make rooting for this fatally flawed team more palatable. I'd rather be a straight shooter and deal with the facts.

It is like a bad dream for me. I will give Jerry credit on this though...he is a master at this game. At the beginning of last year, I would have told you there is no way he could have made as few changes after how the season ended. Although here we are and we have made very little changes and I am sure when camp opens up he will have the fans cheering him again. Added to this, he already has his scapegoats lined up when we under perform again. Gotta give him credit....he is the best in the league with this hidden ball trick.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
Can we just tag all the inane cry about Jerry threads?

Jerry is not as active with the front office stuff as he has been.
We know because he didn't even meet with Melton before he signed.
Biggest FA signing and he doesn't meet Jerry?
Yea that's business as usual.

We also know Ratliff just said the Head coach is policing the team....
Again business as usual right?

The signs are very apparent that Jerry is doing less day to day mgmt than he has since Bill was here.

But all in all this thread is about mcclay and he has done enough to get noticed and promoted... 3 or 4 times.
People can discount having him all they want... it doesn't change that he is here and has done a good job.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,202
Reaction score
64,711
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I'm thinking specifically about the cap management and contracts side of the GM job.

Yes, but Jerry has never done that job. It's been Stephen's job for a long time. I'm certain that releasing Ware was a Stephen move that he convinced Jerry that it had to be done. Jerry's natural inclination would be to hold onto to previous super star like Ware indefinitely.

Jerry even said in an interview this off-season that his way is not working in the modern NFL. He was specifically referring to taking big gambles that had big effects on the salary cap. He was basically saying that with the CBA and the salary cap, that teams need a manager instead of a wildcatter.
 

Zimmy Lives

Well-Known Member
Messages
9,165
Reaction score
4,631
Quote shamelessly stolen from Aliens, 1986:

Stephen:
"Will McClay is here to protect you. He's an expert."
Jerry:"It won't make any difference."

Just kidding, I hope he does make a difference.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Yes, but Jerry has never done that job. It's been Stephen's job for a long time. I'm certain that releasing Ware was a Stephen move that he convinced Jerry that it had to be done. Jerry's natural inclination would be to hold onto to previous super star like Ware indefinitely.

Jerry even said in an interview this off-season that his way is not working in the modern NFL. He was specifically referring to taking big gambles that had big effects on the salary cap. He was basically saying that with the CBA and the salary cap, that teams need a manager instead of a wildcatter.

Yeah, we've traditionally had a non-traditional organization under Jerry.

My only point was that McClay's expertise is in scouting, and that GMs traditionally are responsible for more than that.

Beyond that, I'm pretty uninterested in our current dynamic. It's clearly a group effort. Jerry clearly retains his veto. It's going to change as people move, and we'll have to adapt. I'm just glad it's working better than it had been.
 

Crown Royal

Insulin Beware
Messages
14,229
Reaction score
6,383
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ciskowski is still responsible for building the board, no?
 

Wood

Well-Known Member
Messages
8,447
Reaction score
5,697
I call Will McCay the Tony Romo of the scouting department. Accolades, praise, ushering in next 'chosen one' without really delivering yet. Personally, I like to see guys produce better than their peers before I start endorsing them.
 

peplaw06

That Guy
Messages
13,699
Reaction score
413
No specific facts have been laid out.

This is an example of a factual account:



as opposed to the characterization of

Once again, I don't care about your personal standard of proof. There are more than enough facts out there to support my "characterization." I don't have to write a dissertation laying out every single fact every time I post to satisfy you.

It is generally accepted knowledge that Jerry was not happy that Jimmy was receiving the lion's share of the credit in the early 90s, and he was getting little to no credit. Even the "factual account" you posted supports that.
 

Chocolate Lab

Run-loving Dino
Messages
37,118
Reaction score
11,472
Wait, is someone claiming it's in doubt that Jerry was jealous of the credit Jimmy was getting and wanted to be known as a "football guy"?

Also, someone asked what GMs do. Most of the time they hire the head coach also. Don't think McClay is doing that.
 

jterrell

Penguinite
Messages
33,874
Reaction score
15,971
I call Will McCay the Tony Romo of the scouting department. Accolades, praise, ushering in next 'chosen one' without really delivering yet. Personally, I like to see guys produce better than their peers before I start endorsing them.

McClay's promotion was to give him board building duties.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,202
Reaction score
64,711
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ciskowski is still responsible for building the board, no?

No, McClay is in charge of the draft board.

It seems obvious that the Floyd ordeal got Ciscowski demoted from this duty. Whoever put the board together should have gone through every player in the early rounds with the coaches. They might not be in exact agreement, but you can't have a guy at #5 that the position coach does not see as a first rounder.

Normally, a position coach is happy when the 1st round pick is at his position area. When a position coach gives a thumbs down to a player in his position area, he must really really not be a fan of that player. He knows that there is a good chance that the next choice might be a different position.
 

Crown Royal

Insulin Beware
Messages
14,229
Reaction score
6,383
No, McClay is in charge of the draft board.

It seems obvious that the Floyd ordeal got Ciscowski demoted from this duty. Whoever put the board together should have gone through every player in the early rounds with the coaches. They might not be in exact agreement, but you can't have a guy at #5 that the position coach does not see as a first rounder.

Normally, a position coach is happy when the 1st round pick is at his position area. When a position coach gives a thumbs down to a player in his position area, he must really really not be a fan of that player. He knows that there is a good chance that the next choice might be a different position.

I don't know the whole story, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that the coaches didn't see/have input into the board before the draft?

Like, did Garrett, Marinelli walk in on draft day, look at the board and say "ooh so that's how it is this year?"
 

peplaw06

That Guy
Messages
13,699
Reaction score
413
I don't know the whole story, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that the coaches didn't see/have input into the board before the draft?

Like, did Garrett, Marinelli walk in on draft day, look at the board and say "ooh so that's how it is this year?"

Of course they saw it and had input.... Some people have just bought the Ciskowski as the scapegoat angle.
 

Idgit

Fattening up
Staff member
Messages
58,971
Reaction score
60,826
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
Of course they saw it and had input.... Some people have just bought the Ciskowski as the scapegoat angle.

I'd never heard that angle before, but it actually makes some sense given the fallout. If there was disagreement in prior meetings over the player between coaches and scouts, and the board didn't end up reflecting whatever the consensus was. Doesn't make the incident any better or worse, but it at least is a somewhat plausible explanation for the obvious confusion and Ciskowski's subsequent change in responsibilities.
 

xwalker

Well-Known Member
Messages
57,202
Reaction score
64,711
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
I don't know the whole story, but I find it incredibly hard to believe that the coaches didn't see/have input into the board before the draft?

Like, did Garrett, Marinelli walk in on draft day, look at the board and say "ooh so that's how it is this year?"

Marinelli, being an assistant coach probably didn't argue the issue much because Floyd appeared to be out of range at the Cowboys pick. It was Ciscowski's job to know that Marinelli would be against taking Floyd in the 1st. It's not Marinelli's job to sort through all of the scenario's that might occur like Floyd falling to the Cowboys pick.

If you've ever seen/heard Ciscowski interviewed, it's not difficult to believe that he is not a good communicator or manager type. Have you ever known guys that were good at their specific job but that would be terrible managers? For example a guy that is a very good software developer and knows all of the technical details, but when moved to management is terrible at dealing with people.
 

Chocolate Lab

Run-loving Dino
Messages
37,118
Reaction score
11,472
If you've ever seen/heard Ciscowski interviewed, it's not difficult to believe that he is not a good communicator or manager type
.I've seen/heard Ciskowski interviewed several times. What from his interviews would make you think he's not a good communicator or manager?
 

FuzzyLumpkins

The Boognish
Messages
36,574
Reaction score
27,859
Once again, I don't care about your personal standard of proof. There are more than enough facts out there to support my "characterization." I don't have to write a dissertation laying out every single fact every time I post to satisfy you.

It is generally accepted knowledge that Jerry was not happy that Jimmy was receiving the lion's share of the credit in the early 90s, and he was getting little to no credit. Even the "factual account" you posted supports that.

Generally accepted by whom? You? I just linked an account that showed the dynamic completely the other way with quotes from Cowboys coaches, staff and not to mention straight from the horses mouth.

Further your characterization about the SI article indicating that Jerry was butthurt is plain wrong. Its typical bs from you though. From the article:

In a darkly sarcastic mood Johnson once said that his girlfriend, Rhonda Rook, knows as much about football as Jones does. Johnson said, "Sometimes she'll say, 'Why do you let him say what he does [to the media about his trade involvement]?'...I don't know. I've gone from angry and hostile to trying to be a good company man to trying to tell the truth to I really don't care. He owns the club. What can I do?"

But in the hours after the Bear game, Johnson could no longer contain himself, and the confrontation in Jones's suite could have set off a full-blown battle for authority. That it did not is a reflection of the man at whom the anger was directed. Through Johnson's three-week reign of terror, Jones was the one person in the organization who shrugged it off. The day after Johnson confronted him, Jones said he had seen Johnson at other times even more "puffed up" with anger. Had Jones's relentless optimism made him oblivious to the depths of Johnson's bitterness? Was he being a little naive?

No, said Jones. "Jimmy's smart enough not to push me too far. He knows I can be volatile too. I tried to explain to Jimmy that I respect the sanctity of the locker room and sidelines, but that there are certain things [such as entertaining Bandar and important sponsors] that just have to be done for the good of the club. Really, I have a better relationship with Jimmy than I've had with any partner I've ever had."

As the pressure built on Johnson's Cowboys last season, Jones constantly provided a bright-side balance and perspective.

No, in fact that article clearly shows that Jones was magnanimous about Johnson's efforts to discredit him.

The issue is that you never provide any proof whatsoever. I call you on it every time and even after all these years you still only repeat the same unsubstantiated drivel. You can keep repeating yourself but its not going to suddenly make it true nor does it make you have any standard whatsoever for proof.

People can see that now and that is all I really care about.
 
Top