Dog Fights - adults only please?

[Hostile]

First of all the DVS was really talking about silverbear. i dont like pigeonholing people and the comment on age was bad form and im sorry about that. you for the most part seem level headed.

im sure that many dogfighters also like their dogs as well and there have been cases where dogs dont go after the other dog but rahter go after one of the people standing nearby. In both cases i think the dog or the cow would rather be doing anything but what we humans are forcing them to do.

of course the guy that owns rough stock would get mad if i said that he abused his animals because again that owuld be a situation where he would have to condemn himself. if he allows people to do things in the pen to the animal to scare or anger the animal then he is still abusing the cow no matter how mad he may get.

im not arguing the fact that is illegal i bow to democracy on it but my vote would not have been for it. its all torture just under different guises.

but really just beacuse something is made illegal does not mean that it should be. just because a lot of people say something is as it shold be does not mean that its right. its not as if im going to go out and start a dogfighting ring to try and prove a point. but one thing in all of this is very clear and that is the amount of distance people have towards animals in general. i start relaying typical actions towards animals in legal activities i am met with incredulity or disdain.

Now i dont come to the same conclusion that many do but im not just making this stuff up.

I just can't use other things that are wrong or questionable to judge something else. It doesn't make a lick of sense to this poor country bumpkin.

I can't say, well killing minks for their fur is wrong and it's legal so dog fighting should be too. I just can't. That is somewhere that my moral compass just can't point. I've never worn fur and probably never would, but I've eaten veal and probably would again. If that makes me a hypocrite then I am a hypocrite. I can live with that label because I believe all are to some extent.

What I can't do is use cross back and forth between the issues and try and use one to justify another. Wrong is wrong, and it is wrong for the right reasons. Of course that is my opinion and how my moral compass works. I can't fathom anyone not seeing it as wrong.

 

[Hostile]

Mine is called a rare ribeye and yes, i'd hit it over the head if i had to.

Porterhouse, and rare.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Its all relative to the culture in which you live - it shouldn't be permissable anywhere, but this is coming from a society that hunts wild animals for fun. So its a matter of personal morals, and in my opinion its horrible and unexcusable.

 

[5Stars]

I just can't use other things that are wrong or questionable to judge something else. It doesn't make a lick of sense to this poor country bumpkin.

I can't say, well killing minks for their fur is wrong and it's legal so dog fighting should be too. I just can't. That is somewhere that my moral compass just can't point. I've never worn fur and probably never would, but I've eaten veal and probably would again. If that makes me a hypocrite then I am a hypocrite. I can live with that label because I believe all are to some extent.

What I can't do is use cross back and forth between the issues and try and use one to justify another. Wrong is wrong, and it is wrong for the right reasons. Of course that is my opinion and how my moral compass works. I can't fathom anyone not seeing it as wrong.

This is what confuses me?


Harry Truman, Doris Day, Red China, Johnnie Ray
South Pacific, Walter Winchell, Joe DiMaggio

Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, Studebaker, Television
North Korea, South Korea, Marilyn Monroe

Rosenbergs, H Bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjom
Brando, The King And I, and The Catcher In The Rye

Eisenhower, Vaccine, England's got a new queen
Marciano, Liberace, Santayana goodbye

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
Well, we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

Joseph Stalin, Malenkov, Nasser and Prokofiev
Rockefeller, Campanella, Communist Bloc

Roy Cohn, Juan Peron, Toscanini, Dacron
Dien Bien Phu Falls, Rock Around the Clock

Einstein, James Dean, Brooklyn's got a winning team
Davy Crockett, Peter Pan, Elvis Presley, Disneyland

Bob Dole, Budapest, Alabama, Khrushchev
Princess Grace, Peyton Place, Trouble in the Suez

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
Well, we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

Little Rock, Pasternak, Mickey Mantle, Kerouac
Sputnik, Chou En-Lai, Bridge On The River Kwai

Lebanon, Charles de Gaulle, California Baseball,
Starkwether, Homicide, Children of Thalidomide

Buddy Holly, Ben Hur, Space Monkey, Mafia
Hula Hoops, Castro, Edsel is a no-go

U2, Syngman Rhee, payola and Kennedy
Chubby Checker, Psycho, Belgians in the Congo

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
Well, we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

Hemingway, Eichmann, Stranger in a Strange Land,
Dylan, Berlin, Bay of Pigs invasion

Lawrence of Arabia, British Beatlemania
Ole Miss, John Glenn, Liston beats Patterson

Pope Paul, Malcolm X, British Politician sex
J.F.K. blown away, what else do I have to say

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
Well, we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

Birth control, Ho Chi Minh, Richard Nixon back again
Moonshot, Woodstock, Watergate, punk rock

Begin, Reagan, Palestine, Terror on the airline
Ayatollah's in Iran, Russians in Afghanistan

Wheel of Fortune, Sally Ride, heavy metal, suicide
Foreign debts, homeless Vets, AIDS, Crack, Bernie Goetz

Hypodermics on the shores, China's under martial law
Rock and Roller cola wars, I can't take it anymore

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning since the world's been turning.
We didn't start the fire
But when we are gone
It will still burn on, and on, and on, and on...

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
Well, we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
Well, we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it

We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire...

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They used to kill pigs in SC with a 22 bullet. Maybe they don't do that anymore. It may be a simple matter of how they are run thru. When you put ten or so in a pen to slaughter you sit on the rail and shoot them. I forgot the kosher way.

The treatment of animals has changed a lot. I asked the question the way I did because I really don't think they're treated inhumanely these days. Including the cosmetic industry. But I don't have firsthand knowledge of this anymore. If you know of a company doing that like Gillette then I'd like to know.

So they are still shocking animals at rodeos these days??

Wellif you think about it bullets are expensive.

And i do not have any personal knowledge of rodeos as i dont go to them but i have read extensively indicating where they are. Hos and BD would be good people to ask as they have personal knowledge.

As for the cosmetic industries these are companies that still use animal testing:

clorox
arm and hammer
mennen
loreal
lever
dial
covergirl
del labs
dial
colgate-palmolive
oral-b

id hate to see what clorox does.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I just can't use other things that are wrong or questionable to judge something else. It doesn't make a lick of sense to this poor country bumpkin.

I can't say, well killing minks for their fur is wrong and it's legal so dog fighting should be too. I just can't. That is somewhere that my moral compass just can't point. I've never worn fur and probably never would, but I've eaten veal and probably would again. If that makes me a hypocrite then I am a hypocrite. I can live with that label because I believe all are to some extent.

What I can't do is use cross back and forth between the issues and try and use one to justify another. Wrong is wrong, and it is wrong for the right reasons. Of course that is my opinion and how my moral compass works. I can't fathom anyone not seeing it as wrong.

and i for one cannot understand how you can say that it is alright to torture and kill animals in some cases and not in others. its not as if im comparing adultery to dogfighting. im comparing one ofrom of animal torture to another.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Hey Hos, i've had people ak me if we name our cows:laugh1: I said maybe if we had 30 milk cows, but i'd have a heck of a time remembering 1500 names

Funny story.

I had a friend in school. I would spend some time on the weekends with him and his family. His family had a Dairy farm and a number of dairy cows.

So I would help him bailing hay, feeding the cows and collecting them so they could set them up on the milkers.

Once in awhile another friend would show up and help out. So one of the brothers would tell the new guy...

We call this girl (patting a cow on the head) Star. Do you know why we call her star? So of course the new guy would say Why?

The guy would say she has a birthmark on her udder that looks like a star and say see.

The new guy would bend down to look at it and the guy would squeeze it and spray milk on the guy.:laugh2:

And no...he never got me to look and fall for that. However I did fall out of his truck once. They had one of those old beat up pickup trucks that had quarter panels or doors from 3-4 different trucks and of course had Farm Use spray painted on the side.

They would use this truck to go out and collect the cows. One time we was running a little behind so we jumped in the truck and he spins out in the mud but then the tires caught traction and we bolted forward...well he and the truck bolted forward. My door flew open and I flipped out backwards out of the truck and the tire glanced my head. Just lucky that was all it did.

I looked up and he was driving off a little before he knew I was out of the truck.:laugh2:

 

[GlitzCowboy]

The dog I have now came from an abused home. It's been 10 years and he's still effected by it and still needs special treatment. These dogs don't get a second chance- right to their death it's hell. Vick is a barbarian. I truly hope I never see another Michael Vick endorsement pertaining to the NFL, that this just finishes him somehow. If he loses Atlanta someway, that could be enough. If you think about it, I mean what team invests mega money in this thug? Just look how quickly Washington came firing when Portis made those comments in aggreance. If the guy wasn't Clinton Portis he'd already be looking for a new job.

I mean, fine, if you agree with the notion that things like this are ok, be that kind of person, I don't care, just don't be idiotic enough to vocally voice your opinion, it does nothing but portray one in a very dark light. It's like religion and politics, a smart person just stays the hell away from it. I'd especially recommend that last one to any satan worshippers and terrorists or anti-government kinds. I bet my point has bounced.

 

[Hostile]

and i for one cannot understand how you can say that it is alright to torture and kill animals in some cases and not in others. its not as if im comparing adultery to dogfighting. im comparing one ofrom of animal torture to another.

I didn't say it is. Killing animals for food means nothing to me. I know nothing about the fur trade, but I won't get behind those who hate those who wear fur. Know why? Because anyone who would throw paint on a woman is a schmuck. If they start throwing paint on biker's leather jackets and taking their lumps for it I will change my mind.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I didn't say it is. Killing animals for food means nothing to me. I know nothing about the fur trade, but I won't get behind those who hate those who wear fur. Know why? Because anyone who would throw paint on a woman is a schmuck. If they start throwing paint on biker's leather jackets and taking their lumps for it I will change my mind.

you just sound like your stiucking your head in the sand looking for excuses to be able to not have to look.

i will not argue that the methods of a lot of the peta people are quite reprehensible. but what they do has nothing to do with the treatment of minks.

and have you seen rodeo people use cattle prods on the cows and calves in the pens before they are released into the ring?

 

[Big Dakota]

I didn't say it is. Killing animals for food means nothing to me. I know nothing about the fur trade, but I won't get behind those who hate those who wear fur. Know why? Because anyone who would throw paint on a woman is a schmuck. If they start throwing paint on biker's leather jackets and taking their lumps for it I will change my mind.

:laugh2: Ain't that the truth. Come on up here during Sturgis bike week and try it when the Hells Angels and Outlaws are in town.

 

[DallasEast]

1) Are dog fights worse than say chicken fights?

If two sets of humans are staging the dog fights and cock fights, no, they're both deplorable. That's "b-o-t-h".

2) Are dog fights worse than bull fights? I saw one in Barcelona and I have never seen anything so brutal.

Yes, but bullfights are deplorable also since it involves the slow killing of an animal for sport.

3) I just saw the planet earth special..Why are dog fights worse than the natural carnage that happens every day in the animal kingdom?

From the beginning of time, nature has mandated that animals fight each other, sometimes even to the death. It does this to insure that species evolve through the rite of survival of the fittest. Survival of the fittest is dictated because of the base instinct which all living beings share and is nature's substitute for intelligence. Intelligence can provide alternatives for growth within a species while base instinct does not. Base instinct will direct an animal, say a dog, to attack another dog which invades it's territory. Intelligence will direct a man or woman, both of whom are also animals, to consider alternatives for dealing with another person who invades his territory (e.g. property, home, etc.). Lack of intelligence allows a person to be driven by his base instincts to create artificial arenas of death for his or her personal 'sporting' enjoyment.

4) Many of us had cows or pigs for dinner last night...

Human beings have the capability of solely eating plants. We have intelligence, which allows us to choose what we eat. However, two million years of evolution as a hunter has not been fully flushed from our genome.

We still crave meat and fish as a food source. Although it is not universally embraced by all humans who do crave meat (not vegetarians), humans have developed methods of quickly killing its sources of meat and fish--minimizing animals length of suffering to mere moments--with a few exceptions (such as the production of veal).

While some humans consider even instant death as torture, torture is best described as: "the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure" (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/torture). The infliction of intense pain can only be felt over an extended period of time for it to be classified as torture, imo. It may or may not be right to instantly kill one's food source, but it is the method which humans have developed via their intelligence to best satisfy its hunger for meat and fish without creating long-term suffering for animals.

Is it the idea that people are betting, the idea that people find this entertaining, or is it that so many people are attached to dogs as pets and relate to it from that perspective?

It is not about betting. A deck of playing cards does not suffer during a game of blackjack.

It is not about entertainment. It is about voluntary entertainment. There are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of ways humans entertain themselves without coercing other living beings to maim and/or kill each other. This fact renders the act of wanting to enjoy 'death entertainment' unnecessary.

Pets are not (generally) consider sources of meat or fish. I cannot rationalize playing fetch with breakfast for others.

Please excuse me...




























Make it stop! :bang2: Make it stop! :bang2: Make it stop! :bang2:
Make it stop! :bang2: Make it stop! :bang2: Make it stop! :bang2:

 

[Hostile]

you just sound like your stiucking your head in the sand looking for excuses to be able to not have to look.

i will not argue that the methods of a lot of the peta people are quite reprehensible. but what they do has nothing to do with the treatment of minks.

and have you seen rodeo people use cattle prods on the cows and calves in the pens before they are released into the ring?

No, I've never seen rodeo cowboys use cattle prods. I've helped cowboys get in the saddle or down on a bull's back and nothing was ever done to torture them that I have ever seen. I've seen rodeo bulls so tame that little kids could feed them and not through the fence, in the pen with them.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, I've never seen rodeo cowboys use cattle prods. I've helped cowboys get in the saddle or down on a bull's back and nothing was ever done to torture them that I have ever seen. I've seen rodeo bulls so tame that little kids could feed them and not through the fence, in the pen with them.

So what have you seen them do to get them animals to perform? im actually curious because my only knowledge about rodeos is from what ive read about them.

i used to make fun of the guys at my school for wearing the big belt buckles not because of the buckle in and of itself but rahter i knew that they were prizes for the winners at rodeos and had never entered into one.

 

[2233boys]

Think of putting two human beings in a pit then having them fight to the death. And before that make them train using brutal techniques. Would you really want to be a Gladiator?

Hopefully my cows, chickens and pigs were put to death humanely and weren't made to fight to death. A slaughter house is brutal enough.

Relating humans fighting to the death and animals fighting to the death isn't a good argument in my opinion.

I understand what you are trying to say, but your argument loses something when you try and make that the main premise.

 

[Hostile]

So what have you seen them do to get them animals to perform? im actually curious because my only knowledge about rodeos is from what ive read about them.

i used to make fun of the guys at my school for wearing the big belt buckles not because of the buckle in and of itself but rahter i knew that they were prizes for the winners at rodeos and had never entered into one.

They put a bucking strap on them.

By the way, have you ever been around a bull? If you ever are near one int he summer watch if a fly lands on their back. The can wiggle that one square inch of hide where the fly lands. I've seen rides with no bucking strap and the bulls still buck hard.

They eat the best foods that cattle can. That won't matter to some people. I understand that.

Oh, and the big buckle is about hoping the girls stare at that area of your body.

 

[bbgun]

I only condone one form of fighting:

http://img413.*************/img413/5382/off105634001qt1.jpg

 

[theogt]

I like veal.

 

[5Stars]

I only condone one form of fighting:

http://img413.*************/img413/5382/off105634001qt1.jpg

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

[Seven]

I am actually looking for mature responses here(put down the flame gun). I am not being a smart*** while asking the following questions? I have never been or ever would be interested in dog fights, but I am having a hard time understanding the universal outrage.

1) Are dog fights worse than say chicken fights?
2) Are dog fights worse than bull fights? I saw one in Barcelona and I have never seen anything so brutal.
3) I just saw the planet earth special..Why are dog fights worse than the natural carnage that happens every day in the animal kingdom?
4) Many of us had cows or pigs for dinner last night...

Is it the idea that people are betting, the idea that people find this entertaining, or is it that so many people are attached to dogs as pets and relate to it from that perspective?

When's the last time you had dog for dinner?