ESPN: Howard to Lakers - Done Deal

[RoyTheHammer]

Insults aren't necessary but since you're the expert I'll continue. Bynum, despite numbers had a piss poor attitude and this was playing for LA. You're seriously discrediting the importance of having a solid back court if/when Howard has back issues, or Pau comes up soft. Again. Logic still simpleton? Don't worry I'm not done.

Miamis bench on the other hand came up big in the finals showing up on defense while adding 32 points from Battier and Miller alone. Bench play is important especially when starters like Gasol and Wade decide to be invisible for a series. I did not say the Lakers acquisition was not significant, because it is. But if you would rather have Andrew Bynum than the reigning 2 time, would be 3 if not for injury, defensive MVP doesn't make LA much better than last year and that's not even bringing up Nash, you must not watch a whole lot or played a lot of basketball.

I wasn't referring to the logic you were using.. i meant the logic of the person who i had replied to previously. Stating that "because this player is better than this player, and this player is better than this player, that equals that this team is better than this team".

If you thought Bynum was immature though, not sure why you are happy with the Howard.

Also, i never provided my thoughts on your comments, so how you can say i don't know what im talking about, when i never gave you my opinion on the matter, is pretty absurd.

Although i think most would agree that Howard isn't a HUGE upgrade over Bynum. They are both very good centers who rebound well and block alot of shots.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Howard isn't a huge upgrade in terms of talent, but he is in terms of fit. Nash is a pick and roll player. That's what he does. He did that in Phoenix and will continue to do that in Los Angeles. Dwight is a great pick and roll big man. Probably the best in the league. That makes him and Nash a match made in heaven. Bynum isn't really a pick and roll player. He's more of an old school lowpost player.

As for Dwight possibly leaving I don't see that happening. First of all we can offer him the most money now that we have his bird rights. Second we have by far the best situation for him. He gets to play with three All Stars like Kobe, Nash, and Pau for a couple of years, hopefully win a couple of titles. Then in 2014 when Nash likely retires and Kobe and Pau's contract expire the Lakers will have aton of cap space to bring in another star to surround Dwight with. LeBron can become a free agent in 2014 and the same with Kevin Love. I just can't see Dwight leaving L.A. for a significantly worse situation in Dallas or Atlanta. Dwight clearly loves L.A. and vice versa. He's not going anywhere. Dwight will be a Laker for a long time to come.

 

[joseephuss]

Surprised. All these Centers not one of you named Bill Russell or Wilt Chaimberlain.

Those guys didn't do anything in the 1980s and 1990s.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Howard isn't a huge upgrade in terms of talent, but he is in terms of fit. Nash is a pick and roll player. That's what he does. He did that in Phoenix and will continue to do that in Los Angeles. Dwight is a great pick and roll big man. Probably the best in the league. That makes him and Nash a match made in heaven. Bynum isn't really a pick and roll player. He's more of an old school lowpost player.

As for Dwight possibly leaving I don't see that happening. First of all we can offer him the most money now that we have his bird rights. Second we have by far the best situation for him. He gets to play with three All Stars like Kobe, Nash, and Pau for a couple of years, hopefully win a couple of titles. Then in 2014 when Nash likely retires and Kobe and Pau's contract expire the Lakers will have aton of cap space to bring in another star to surround Dwight with. LeBron can become a free agent in 2014 and the same with Kevin Love. I just can't see Dwight leaving L.A. for a significantly worse situation in Dallas or Atlanta. Dwight clearly loves L.A. and vice versa. He's not going anywhere. Dwight will be a Laker for a long time to come.

I agree with you on this post, entirely, with everything the way it stands right now. I don't see why he'd leave as we sit here and post today.

However the highlighted part is the part that I would wonder about going into the future. I'm not talking about necassarily those two franchises either but we're talking about something that is 2 years away. Whose to say that some other team won't have a fantastic situation for him in 2 years? I don't think anyone can sew it up that he'll remain a Laker no matter what because they'll have the best situation.

Right now yes they've got the best situation for him. In two years will they? Possibly. Wouldn't be surprised by that in the least. But it's far from a done deal that they'll have the best situation for him by then.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Those guys didn't do anything in the 1980s and 1990s.

Lack of knowledge of all the players who've played the game.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Lack of knowledge of all the players who've played the game.

the statement started off with someone saying Howard was a "once in a generation player."

I used the late 80's/early 90s as a reference to show why he wasn't a once in a generation player because there were 3 guys who were no doubt better (Hakeem, Shaq and D-Rob), 1 who was probably slightly better (Ewing) and even 1 more who was almost as good (Zo).

I didn't reference the 60's, 70's or early 80's because dominant bigs were more once in a generationish, even though you had Wilt/Russell during the same time and Jabbar/Malone in roughly the same time.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

That's three not four.

Hakeem (1)
Shaq (2)
D-Rob (3)
Ewing (4)

how is that 3?

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Hakeem (1)
Shaq (2)
D-Rob (3)
Ewing (4)

how is that 3?

Ewing isn't better than Dwight.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Ewing isn't better than Dwight.

I'll just have to agree to disagree with you there because I couldn't possibly disagree more.

 

[Bizwah]

Lack of knowledge of all the players who've played the game.

Just to reiterate.

The question stemmed from someone referencing centers in the 80s and 90s.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Ewing isn't better than Dwight.

Given your comments on how Bynum was "close" to be the same caliber player (mainly due to how he was a better offensive player), it's hard not to come away thinking your a homer.

Ewing's offensive game was in a different stratosphere than either D12 or Bynum. He didn't have the post moves that Olajuwon had (but no one did really), but his ability to score down low and score facing the basket would be unrivaled with today's centers.

Defensively Ewing gets knocked because he made the all defensive team like 3 times (3 times more than Bynum ever will, yet he's close to the same player as Howard in your eyes), Howard never would've made it over Olajuwon and Robinson either, or even Mark Eaton in the late 80's before Robinson finished with the Navy.

I really don't want to sound like a Knicks homer, but I think Ewing would abuse Howard the same way Olajuwon did Robinson and Shaq.

And Zo was likely much closer to Howard than Bynum is now or will ever be (barring injuries)

 

[Bizwah]

Ewing isn't better than Dwight.

He's not better now. But when he played, Ewing was a much better player than Howard.

Ewing developed a nice offensive game....somethng Howard simply doesn't have.

Ewing wasn't as explosive an athlete....but he was a much more refined basketball player.

Again eighties to nineties players better than Howard.

Kareem--for the first half of the eighties he was still better than Howard
Hakeem-- no question about it
Shaq
David Robinson
Moses Malone
Ewing
Mourning

I feel all of these players were better centers than Howard. Now, I like Howard as a big man. He's certainly athletically gifted. But he simply is too raw offensively right now. All of the centers listed could dominate a game on both ends of the court consistently.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

He's not better now. But when he played, Ewing was a much better player than Howard.

Ewing developed a nice offensive game....somethng Howard simply doesn't have.

Ewing wasn't as explosive an athlete....but he was a much more refined basketball player.

Again eighties to nineties players better than Howard.

Kareem--for the first half of the eighties he was still better than Howard
Hakeem-- no question about it
Shaq
David Robinson
Moses Malone
Ewing
Mourning

I feel all of these players were better centers than Howard. Now, I like Howard as a big man. He's certainly athletically gifted. But he simply is too raw offensively right now. All of the centers listed could dominate a game on both ends of the court consistently.

I don't think Zo was, but just to reiterate, that is a much closer debate than Howard and Bynum.

 

[Bman32x]

Well first off let me apologize for misinterpreting your response. It sounded like you had jumped on the LA bandwagon and were ready to hand them the Championship without seeing what other more experienced teams have.

I wasn't referring to the logic you were using.. i meant the logic of the person who i had replied to previously. Stating that "because this player is better than this player, and this player is better than this player, that equals that this team is better than this team".

I can buy this. 1 name player doesn't make an entire team better in a majority of cases but dont tell that to the Wasington Commanders. This is one of those cases though, that dropping one player position for another player at the same position who is significantly better is going to make this statement true. Wall large numbers I do still agree that that's not always the case Deight Howard for Andrew Bynum is a special case issue.

If you thought Bynum was immature though, not sure why you are happy with the Howard.

Never said anything about maturity. Neither are. Bynum is a benefit player who IMO won't have the same success without Kobe and Gasol. Howard on the other hand, has carries his team since their finals run with virtually limited assistance, poor management, and no aggressive FA/trades. Talent + Experience, I go with Lakers/Dwight over Bynum 365. Dwight has also shown me over the years that he is infinitely a better teammate than Bynum, who in the grand scheme is much more dedicated. Wall Binom was waiting all summer to get a knee surgery right before the season started and getting flagrant fouls and getting himself thrown out of the game Dwight was dedicated himself to his team, despite who he played with or for. Yes Dwight handled himself poorly with the media but he's not the first, Bynum has with media, teammates, on and off the court.

Also, i never provided my thoughts on your comments, so how you can say i don't know what im talking about, when i never gave you my opinion on the matter, is pretty absurd.

My apologies.

Although i think most would agree that Howard isn't a HUGE upgrade over Bynum. They are both very good centers who rebound well and block alot of shots.

Again, Dwight's production in Orlando eclipses Bynum in LA. Dwight didn't have "the greatest player since Jordan" on the wing, or another 7 footer F/C to help. He had the benefit of mismatches, and veteran winners. Dwight succeeded in spite of management, below average teammates and a coach he hated. In the grand scheme, not too many differences, but I do give a lot more thought to LA consistently making the finals with Dwight than Bynum.

 

[MC KAos]

my 2 cents on the trade....

first off, this is the absolute worst trade the magic could have gotten. Every single other trade that has been thrown out there was better, they are going to have a bunch of cap that they were going to have anyway, and a huge trade exemption that you cant use unless you are over the cap to begin with! completely stupid trade for them, and im sure RC buford is ashamed that one of his proteges made the deal.

the magic gave up the most, and got back the least, and its not even close. this trade was great for every singe other team involved, however. the sixers improved the most, followed by the lakers.

two points i wholeheartedly agree on with C&LF are this, the lakers certainly gave up something for howard, this wasnt like the gasol trade, they gave up a really good center that would have resigned with the team, for the best center, whom will test the free agent market (albeit he will most likely resign next summer).

also, while its arguable how much better howard is than bynum, and they could be considered pretty close, whats true is that howard is a much better fit with the current lakers squad. he will be able to negate nash's biggest weakness by defending the rim after nash gets burned by all the faster PGs in the league, leaving him to do what he does best, run a team offensively.

i believe the biggest winners in the trade are the sixers, however, and i believe they are now the second best team in the conference. before anyone starts talking about the celtics, you have to remember they are getting up there in age, and its likely that they will have a key injury come playoff time next year, like they always have had. the sixers are good enough to beat any team in a seven game series now, i wouldnt pick them to beat the top teams, but they can certainly do it.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

A Philly/Lakers Finals would be awesome.

 

[MC KAos]

A Philly/Lakers Finals would be awesome.

of course it would be! for you! just like a spurs/anyone final would be awesome to me! id love a spurs/bobcats final! lol

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

Man I'm still really sad about seeing Drew get traded. He was my second favorite Laker. In a perfect world we would've kept Drew and still gotten Dwight. Unfornately this isn't a perfect world. I know Drew will dominate in Philly.

Drew basically is the NBA version of Dez. Knucklehead, very immature, but an incredible talent.

 

[MC KAos]

Man I'm still really sad about seeing Drew get traded. He was my second favorite Laker. In a perfect world we would've kept Drew and still gotten Dwight. Unfornately this isn't a perfect world. I know Drew will dominate in Philly.

it wouldnt be a good fit, they both play the same spots on the court, it would be impossible to have both of them out there at the same time.

 

[MC KAos]

i still think the lakers should move gasol for multiple younger, athletic pieces for depth.