FA Spending Correlation With Winning

[JoeyBoy718]

I agree but those rounds are crucial. Besides Anthony Hitchens, I can't think of many quality players outside of the first 3 rounds we have hit on as of late. I know a lot of teams can say the same but still it would be nice for a mid round pick to turn into a quality player.

We are probably the best in the league at udfas though.

What makes Hitchens quality? We resigned RoMc and might draft Jack. We appear to have no indication of giving Hitchens a bigger role.

 

[mattjames2010]

What makes Hitchens quality? We resigned RoMc and might draft Jack. We appear to have no indication of giving Hitchens a bigger role.

He was a fourth round pick, productive in both years. That's quality.

 

[Sydla]

What makes Hitchens quality? We resigned RoMc and might draft Jack. We appear to have no indication of giving Hitchens a bigger role.

He's the starting sam back and I don't think there's any indication that Jack is a top target of ours.

FWIW, I am curious to see what happens with the kid we took from Minny last year in the mid rounds. Pretty athletic LB.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

He was a fourth round pick, productive in both years. That's quality.

In my opinion, to have a quality draft, you need eventual starters in multiple rounds, not just the 1st. Hitchens was a surprise as a rookie but he's going into year 3 and he's still not moving any closer to a significant role. T. Crawford was a solid pick. A 3rd rounder who has been a starter for a few years now. Not elite but solid. Our only quality starters appear to be 1st rounders.

 

[Stash]

Haha, dude your stance can be said about EVERY position outside of maybe running back and offensive lineman. And it's not like I went back 20 years to find these players, each came out of the from 2011-2015. Once again: You said rookie DE don't come out and put up big number, me simply posting one name would have proved you wrong. Moving on!

You proved nothing "wrong". You cherry-picked a couple of names and tried and failed to pass it off as fact. Nobody buys it. And if you're "moving on", move on. But you seem to have a great habit of thinking you've proven something when the fact is you've proven nothing.

You can say the same for Hardy, genius - "Hardy didn't live up to his name in 2015? Well He SHOULD be better this year"

The only major difference - "genius" - is that I can say that Hardy had done it, he's proven he can do it.

We brought Hardy in on a VERY short leash with a prove it deal: Right off the bat, he antagonized and gave the media soundbites. Few games later, he put his hands on a coach. Most of what Dez did was early in his career and Stephen and Jerry BOTH told him to straighten up or get out. Dez has been relatively quiet since, the sideline "fit" turned out to be far less when we heard audio. Not the same with Hardy.

So yes, you're ignorant. I don't think you're stupid, just like last year and your "We are one player away, give a first for Peterson" comments, this is pure emotion based.

And I feel the same about you, thanks!

By the way, who was it that led the league in rushing for 2015?

 

[Stash]

He was a fourth round pick, productive in both years. That's quality.

Limbo bar.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

He's the starting sam back and I don't think there's any indication that Jack is a top target of ours.

FWIW, I am curious to see what happens with the kid we took from Minny last year in the mid rounds. Pretty athletic LB.

I hope Hitchens and Wilson can have big roles in the future. I just wouldn't call it a great draft pick when he doesn't have a big role after his rookie contact expires. Dallas would still draft a stud LB if one was available and that would just push Hitchens even further down the depth chart. Besides, Wilber was our starting SLB at a point. That's not saying much. Hitchens snaps have been reducing since his rookie year when we were desperate for LB.

 

[Stash]

In my opinion, to have a quality draft, you need eventual starters in multiple rounds, not just the 1st. Hitchens was a surprise as a rookie but he's going into year 3 and he's still not moving any closer to a significant role. T. Crawford was a solid pick. A 3rd rounder who has been a starter for a few years now. Not elite but solid. Our only quality starters appear to be 1st rounders.

No, you're right. Don't let the 'Super Fans' try to tell you any different.

 

[mattjames2010]

In my opinion, to have a quality draft, you need eventual starters in multiple rounds, not just the 1st. Hitchens was a surprise as a rookie but he's going into year 3 and he's still not moving any closer to a significant role. T. Crawford was a solid pick. A 3rd rounder who has been a starter for a few years now. Not elite but solid. Our only quality starters appear to be 1st rounders.

Depth and rotational guys are important in the NFL

Anthony Hitchens

2014: 75 combined tackles, 4 pass deflections, 1 interception
2015: 67 combined tackles, 2 sacks, 1 pass deflection, 1 forced fumble

For a fourth round pick? That's good production from a player that can play multiple linebacker roles.

 

[fivetwos]

As far as UFA spending correlating with wins, I think where you were before that plays a large role.

Of course you're paying more than a player may be worth, but if it gets you over the hump, why not play a little?

I would have thought that a team with an elite QB nearing the end, health, if not age-wise, would have been more aggressive in adding the parts to get us into a spot to win while he is still around.

Even if they have a 1975 type of draft, they are still rookies and need some time. Does Romo have that kind of time? I guess Jerry really thinks so.

 

[Sydla]

I hope Hitchens and Wilson can have big roles in the future. I just wouldn't call it a great draft pick when he doesn't have a big role after his rookie contact expires. Dallas would still draft a stud LB if one was available and that would just push Hitchens even further down the depth chart. Besides, Wilber was our starting SLB at a point. That's not saying much. Hitchens snaps have been reducing since his rookie year when we were desperate for LB.

I completely blanked on Wilber.

But for a fourth round guy, Hitchens has been a very good starting/back up LB for us. Can't really ask for much more from a 4th round pick IMO. If we had hit on more of our 2nd and 3rd round picks, we'd probably not be as critical of our 4th round guys.

All that really points to this draft being very, very important. 5 picks in the Top 150 of the draft. They have to nail this draft.

 

[mattjames2010]

You proved nothing "wrong". You cherry-picked a couple of names and tried and failed to pass it off as fact. Nobody buys it. And if you're "moving on", move on. But you seem to have a great habit of thinking you've proven something when the fact is you've proven nothing.

The only major difference - "genius" - is that I can say that Hardy had done it, he's proven he can do it.



And I feel the same about you, thanks!

By the way, who was it that led the league in rushing for 2015?

Haha, AGAIN you said that rookie defensive pass rushers aren't productive their rookie years. I gave you 4 names straight off the top of my head in the past 5 drafts. This is gold!

Hardy has done it? Not in Dallas. His most productive game was against the Pats...in one quarter, 2 sacks and a forced fumble. He finished the final 6 games with two sacks. His half sack came against the Dolphins on the final play.

So, not entirely sure where this "he done it!" is coming from, because it wasn't here. He did it with Carolina 2 years ago.

 

[JoeyBoy718]

I completely blanked on Wilber.

But for a fourth round guy, Hitchens has been a very good starting/back up LB for us. Can't really ask for much more from a 4th round pick IMO. If we had hit on more of our 2nd and 3rd round picks, we'd probably not be as critical of our 4th round guys.

All that really points to this draft being very, very important. 5 picks in the Top 150 of the draft. They have to nail this draft.

Yep. And let's see if we can snag some sleepers with our four 6th rounders.

 

[robjay04]

In my opinion, to have a quality draft, you need eventual starters in multiple rounds, not just the 1st. Hitchens was a surprise as a rookie but he's going into year 3 and he's still not moving any closer to a significant role. T. Crawford was a solid pick. A 3rd rounder who has been a starter for a few years now. Not elite but solid. Our only quality starters appear to be 1st rounders.

Well he is still a contributor on the roster which says a lot compared to some of our mid round picks. I just want contributors, I don't expect studs, just solid depth players that you can trust. If we have a draft where 5 people are still on the roster in two seasons and 3 of them are quality starters, I'll be happy.

 

[Stash]

Haha, AGAIN you said that rookie defensive pass rushers aren't productive their rookie years. I gave you 4 names straight off the top of my head in the past 5 drafts. This is gold!

And it still doesn't change the fact that it's the exception and not the rule, but you keep laughin'!

Hardy has done it? Not in Dallas. His most productive game was against the Pats...in one quarter, 2 sacks and a forced fumble. He finished the final 6 games with two sacks. His half sack came against the Dolphins on the final play.

So, not entirely sure where this "he done it!" is coming from, because it wasn't here. He did it with Carolina 2 years ago.

So who did "in Dallas"? Answer is nobody! Maybe instead of bashing established player who have had success, we should be questioning mediocre, uninspired coaching? But nah, not in Dallas! They're beyond reproach!

The fact is that Hardy is a proven commodity pass rusher, and far better than any other options this sorry team has. Those who know saw which player was getting the double team from opponents and who wasn't.

 

[fivetwos]

I said this yesterday and got ripped for it, so I expect the same.

This is if you want to WIN. If you don't want to win, nevermind, operate as you like.

If you are going to virtually ignore UFA, you have to draft incredibly well.

Not a lengthy debate over whether a 4th rounder is any good or not....

You need to NAIL the top picks as studs and the mid and late ones need to be solid contributors.

You probably need to get lucky and get a stud in late rounds also here and there.

Dallas just isn't there yet. I hope they start now. I really do. But for as much as people want to say the drafting has been better, and maybe it has, the mid to later rounds have not been where they need to be to ignore UFA almost entirely and still be a top team.

 

[BIGDen]

For those of you upset that Dallas hasn't been spending on FA's -- I am very proud of them thus far in FA.

BTW, are we ever not .500

If we didn't lose our All-Pro QB for 12 games last year, we'd have a winning record during that span. Dallas is drafting better and retaining their home-grown talent.

 

[mattjames2010]

And it still doesn't change the fact that it's the exception and not the rule, but you keep laughin'!



So who did "in Dallas"? Answer is nobody! Maybe instead of bashing established player who have had success, we should be questioning mediocre, uninspired coaching? But nah, not in Dallas! They're beyond reproach!

The fact is that Hardy is a proven commodity pass rusher, and far better than any other options this sorry team has. Those who know saw which player was getting the double team from opponents and who wasn't.

I am going to keep laughing until you retract your initial statement. For this "exception", a lot of immediate quality pass rushers have come out of the draft in the past few years. This is all based off raw sack statistics as well, hell, we may find more rookie DEs/LBs that were disruptive often if we dig a little deeper.

Demarcus Lawrence? You know, the player who had the better year than Hardy? "Proven commodity" - 2 years ago. Not now, not in Dallas...which is important. For a guy you are trying your best to make a case for, you're doing little to provide me anything that he did in 2015. Instead, you are going back to his 2013 production.

 

[Stash]

I am going to keep laughing until you retract your initial statement. For this "exception", a lot of immediate quality pass rushers have come out of the draft in the past few years. This is all based off raw sack statistics as well, hell, we may find more rookie DEs/LBs that were disruptive often if we dig a little deeper.

I'm fine with "diggin deeper" especially into your apples to oranges examples where you gave me two 3-4 outside linebackers and a defensive tackle for your 'evidence' for a 4-3 defensive end. And apparently Hardy can get criticized for 6 sacks in 12 games, but you want to praise the rookies for what? 8 sacks? Not hypocritical at all...

Demarcus Lawrence? You know, the player who had the better year than Hardy?

You mean the guy who wasn't seeing the double-teams thanks to Hardy? The one coming off of back surgery? That guy?

"Proven commodity" - 2 years ago. Not now, not in Dallas...which is important. For a guy you are trying your best to make a case for, you're doing little to provide me anything that he did in 2015. Instead, you are going back to his 2013 production.

Oh? When did you get the idea that I needed to "prove anything" to you? Consider everything I post there for anyone and everyone else.

And feel free to put me on ignore if you can't handle the facts I bring to the conversation.

 

[Stash]

If we didn't lose our All-Pro QB for 12 games last year, we'd have a winning record during that span. Dallas is drafting better and retaining their home-grown talent.

If we had better coaching we'd be better too.