First 39 Starts of career- Romo/Prescott

[Hennessy_King]

He makes a decent point though.

I think some around here think teams focus on stopping Elliott because they don't respect our WRs. But I think it might not necessarily be that. In fact, they might not be scared of Dak being able to consistently beat them.

I think that's why I some here are misguided thinking that just dropping Cooper into our lineup totally changes how teams defend us. Teams aren't going to stop doing what they are doing until Dak proves he can get the ball to Cooper and beat them.

Dak delivers the ball. If the guys trying to get open are terrible where is he going to deliver the ball.

Man it's getting to the point where it's unbearable to hear excuses..

Before Romo took over in 2006 , TO looked washed up and Witten wasn't a pro bowler.
Having a QB that can get you the ball makes all the difference.

I remember back in the day Roddy White looked like a bust until Matt Ryan got there and he started going to pro bowls.

Also , at one point , Romo had Patrick Crayton as his number two and Sam Hurd as his 3 hardly world beaters.. shall I mention Laurent Robinson? Those are nobody's that looked serviceable with a good QB. stop making excuses because Hurns , Thompson , Dez, Beasley, and Witten have produced in this league before.... it's not like Dak is playing with people off the street. You will learn the hard way that QBs make WRs and not the other way around when Dak and Cooper can't produce..

What will your excuse be then?

"Aww man, Dak needs two number one receivers"

Are you high T.O. was a monster while he was with us. You must be 12 years old.

 

[mattjames2010]

He makes a decent point though.

I think some around here think teams focus on stopping Elliott because they don't respect our WRs. But I think it might not necessarily be that. In fact, they might not be scared of Dak being able to consistently beat them.

I think that's why I some here are misguided thinking that just dropping Cooper into our lineup totally changes how teams defend us. Teams aren't going to stop doing what they are doing until Dak proves he can get the ball to Cooper and beat them.

I haven't watched the all-22 on the Raiders, but the PFF on the Cooper trade stated the problems going on in Oakland are the same problems we are having - a QB that isn't getting the ball to receivers when they are open downfield.

I don't see Cooper making much of an impact at all.

 

[Sydla]

Dak delivers the ball. If the guys trying to get open are terrible where is he going to deliver the ball.

He delivers the ball?

 

[Ken]

Man it's getting to the point where it's unbearable to hear excuses..

Before Romo took over in 2006 , TO looked washed up and Witten wasn't a pro bowler.
Having a QB that can get you the ball makes all the difference.

I remember back in the day Roddy White looked like a bust until Matt Ryan got there and he started going to pro bowls.

Also , at one point , Romo had Patrick Crayton as his number two and Sam Hurd as his 3 hardly world beaters.. shall I mention Laurent Robinson? Those are nobody's that looked serviceable with a good QB. stop making excuses because Hurns , Thompson , Dez, Beasley, and Witten have produced in this league before.... it's not like Dak is playing with people off the street. You will learn the hard way that QBs make WRs and not the other way around when Dak and Cooper can't produce..

What will your excuse be then?

"Aww man, Dak needs two number one receivers"

LOL.

You mean the two probowls Witten had before romo started don't count?

And why would you think T.O was washed up, because he only played 7 games his final year in Philly because they banished him from the team?

 

[BoysForLife]

A few notes:

* I was and will always be an ardent Romo Fanatic.
* Posting these to hopefully put into perspective our current qb
*Romo's first start happened mid season in year 3 of his career at the age of 26. Dak is still 25. These numbers represent the first 39 starts of their respective careers, not including playoffs.
*Romo's weapons were 2006- Owens + Glenn (both 1000 yards), Prime Witten, Crayton as 33rd wr, Barber and JJ (combined for 1800+ and 18tds) 2007- same minus Glenn, 2008- Mostly same, add Bennett, Felix jones, remove JJ.

*Dak's weapons in passing not close to what Romo was working with, Dak did have better OL at least one year and Zeke.
Romo- In a more wide open passing offense vs heavy run offense for Dak.



Romo

815 completions, 1280 attempts- 63.67% 10,300 yards, 8.0 YPA, 78 TDs, 43 Ints, 95 Rating, 63 sacks, 263 rush yards, 2 rush tds

Prescott

747 completions, 1155 attempts, 64.7%, 8408 yards, 7.3 ypa, 53 TDs, 21 ints, 94 rating, 80 sacks, 875 rush yards, 14 rush tds


My takeways: Dak's completion percentage is actually higher than Romo's. Does this mean Romo was inaccurate? More than twice the interceptions in about 100 more attempts, was Romo's "spatial awareness" still developing? Dak sacked at a much higher rate. 80 tds for Romo to 67 for Dak. Qb rating very similar.

Total yards: 10,563 for Romo. Dak, 9,283.

My takeaways:

When your completion % is virtually identical but your YPA is almost a yard different, then you have one guy throwing short safe passes and another guy stretching a defense.

Dak is playing behind a better O line than Romo had at any point in his career, other than from 2013-2014. Even with some of the much ballyhooed struggles, this is a better line across the board than we had in 2007 or 2008. Tyron is better than Flo. Conner Williams is probably equivalent to Kyle Kosier and is significantly better than Cory Procter. Frederick is miles ahead of Andre Gurode. Not a slam against Gurode. Freddy is just way better. Leonard Davis was good but he ain't no Zack Martin. Advantage Current Cowboys. Columbo on that line was a better RT than we have now. I'll give the edge to Romo's line on that position. So you have maybe a wash at LG, advantage RT on the 07-08 Cowboys. And LT, RG and C are a huge advantage to the current O line.

That being the case, I have to ask myself--why more sacks? Answer: Ball ain't coming out quick enough. Pre Snap reads and execution are lacking Now.

Yes, Dak is a better Runner than Romo. No argument there. But we got Zeke to run the dang Ball. Another huge advantage for this Cowboys team over 07-08. (Yes. Marion Barber was good. But he wasn't Zeke)

One other takeaway I have: For a guy who keeps saying Romo's gone and isn't coming back, and we all just need to "get over it", you sure as heck do love bringing him up. Constantly.

 

[Hennessy_King]

He delivers the ball?

Yeh he throws the ball to open guys. Hence his low int rates. Don't be a dummy

 

[BoysForLife]

LOL.

You mean the two probowls Witten had before romo started don't count?

And why would you think T.O was washed up, because he only played 7 games his final year in Philly because they banished him from the team?

No. Witten and TO were both good players before Romo. No one is arguing that.

But if you look objectively at their stats in Dallas *pre* and *post* Romo, it's night and day. Production for both of them went up by about 35-40%.
Maybe that's a coincidence.

 

[Hennessy_King]

No. Witten and TO were both good players before Romo. No one is arguing that.

But if you look objectively at their stats in Dallas *pre* and *post* Romo, it's night and day. Production for both of them went up by about 35-40%.
Maybe that's a coincidence.

Or maybe they both took the pressure off one another and opened up opportunities for one another.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Dak is in his third year and not showing improvement, Romo did. You don't learn about players while they are on the bench, you do when they play.

Romo improved, Dak hasn't. You can play and even play poorly and still improve fundamentally at the position, like Romo did. Dak...not so much.

I feel like Dak is showing improvement. The problem, at least to me, is that we compare his progress to that of 2016, I get it. The reality is that we are not running the same Offense we did in 2016. We are trying to reshape him and that's a tough deal for any QB. For the life of me, I don't understand our coaching staff. To me, it's as simple as home made apple pie, build on what he is good at. That's not what we did though. What we did was we looked at Dak being forced to start and we tailored a lot of our Offense to his capabilities and skill level. We didn't ask him to do too much and the results were spectacular. After that, this coaching staff completely changed what we were doing there and tried to remake him into a pocket passer. Tried to get him to do more of a Pro Style Offense and the learning curve on that has been steep. I mean, there is a reason why Dak did not go early in the draft. It's not, IMO, because he had no talent. IMO, it's because he was never coached properly in a Pro Style Offense.

If you just look at his development from 2017 to current, I do think he has gotten better but I also acknowledge that progress is probably slower then what we would all like to see. The first year is looking like it's going to be a throw away year because the team doesn't seem to want to build on any of that. They seem to want to continue to stay the course on the Pro Style stuff. If that is what happens, then none of what we saw in his rookie year is going to be of much help to him because it's not what he is going to be doing from here on out. That's a real shame too because if used right, he can create problems for opposing defenses.

JMO

 

[ClintDagger]

What gets missed in all of this is that 99% of unbiased NFL experts would say Romo was a better QB in his prime than Dak is now and by a wide margin. So cherry pick all of the stats you want. Romo was a upper echelon QB in his day and Dak is a bottom 5-ish starter. That’s all you have to say.

 

[BoysForLife]

27-12 for Romo
25-14 for Dak

Interesting.
Just for fun I checked. At no time did the Cowboys have the leagues #1 scoring defense during that period of Romo's early years (or at anytime during his career, for that matter)

Yet they won more games.

Fascinating.

 

[BoysForLife]

And a way better group of offensive coaches.

Beg Pardon?

Except for the 10 games he started in 2006, Jason Garrett was his OC.

Here's another little discussed fact--Romo had an OC change 10 games into his career. Can you imagine the excuse train for Dak if he had to go through a coordinator change early in his career? Heck, we're still hearing about the need to "develop chemistry with his young receivers" after a full Training camp and half a season.

 

[xwalker]

A few notes:

* I was and will always be an ardent Romo Fanatic.
* Posting these to hopefully put into perspective our current qb
*Romo's first start happened mid season in year 3 of his career at the age of 26. Dak is still 25. These numbers represent the first 39 starts of their respective careers, not including playoffs.
*Romo's weapons were 2006- Owens + Glenn (both 1000 yards), Prime Witten, Crayton as 33rd wr, Barber and JJ (combined for 1800+ and 18tds) 2007- same minus Glenn, 2008- Mostly same, add Bennett, Felix jones, remove JJ.

*Dak's weapons in passing not close to what Romo was working with, Dak did have better OL at least one year and Zeke.
Romo- In a more wide open passing offense vs heavy run offense for Dak.



Romo

815 completions, 1280 attempts- 63.67% 10,300 yards, 8.0 YPA, 78 TDs, 43 Ints, 95 Rating, 63 sacks, 263 rush yards, 2 rush tds

Prescott

747 completions, 1155 attempts, 64.7%, 8408 yards, 7.3 ypa, 53 TDs, 21 ints, 94 rating, 80 sacks, 875 rush yards, 14 rush tds


My takeways: Dak's completion percentage is actually higher than Romo's. Does this mean Romo was inaccurate? More than twice the interceptions in about 100 more attempts, was Romo's "spatial awareness" still developing? Dak sacked at a much higher rate. 80 tds for Romo to 67 for Dak. Qb rating very similar.

Total yards: 10,563 for Romo. Dak, 9,283.

Dak is a much better QB than most fans/media claim.

The majority of fans disliked Romo for many years. Many blamed him for the botched field goal hold (As if that had any bearing on his ability as a QB).

The National media fueled the fans that disliked Romo by constantly criticizing him.

It was not until the 2014 season that the consensus opinion both by Cowboys fans and the National media became that Romo was a really good QB.

Romo had peak Dez/Witten as well as Miles Austion and TO.

Dak had one decent season from Dez and one terrible season from Dez. Neither were close to his peak ability to threaten defenses.

Dak had a past-his-prime Witten for 2 seasons.

The addition of Amari Cooper is huge. He is a legit #1 WR and runs excellent routes.

The biggest concern is the pass protection. Dak is much more affected by poor pass protection than Romo. It's not because Dak panics like many QBs under pressure. Dak needs "space" for his throwing motion. Romo had both a super quick release and developed a very compact throwing motion. He also mastered that loop around move to avoid unblocked defenders.

Even with an inferior WR and TE group, Dak wins if the pass protection is good.

The game (Jax) where he ran often seemed to really help the pass protection; however, Jax didn't scheme to limit his running. Some defenses do scheme to limit Dak or any running QB. This often means the DEs pause (read and react) which limits their pass rushing ability.

With the trade of a 1st round pick for Amari Cooper, fans will expect Dak to outperform Tom Brady's best season...

 

[G2]

. "Thrown to the wolves" is a myth, you either got it or you don't. You either improve or you don't. Romo did, Dak hasn't. It is what it is.

This isn't 100% accurate. It's not always a myth.

What gets missed in all of this is that 99% of unbiased NFL experts would say Romo was a better QB in his prime than Dak is now and by a wide margin. So cherry pick all of the stats you want. Romo was a upper echelon QB in his day and Dak is a bottom 5-ish starter. That’s all you have to say.

Well no ****! Comparing a decade to 2.5 years isn't cherry picking? Save your BS biased speech, you didn't even make it past the 2nd sentence.

 

[eromeopolk]

A few notes:

* I was and will always be an ardent Romo Fanatic.
* Posting these to hopefully put into perspective our current qb
*Romo's first start happened mid season in year 3 of his career at the age of 26. Dak is still 25. These numbers represent the first 39 starts of their respective careers, not including playoffs.
*Romo's weapons were 2006- Owens + Glenn (both 1000 yards), Prime Witten, Crayton as 33rd wr, Barber and JJ (combined for 1800+ and 18tds) 2007- same minus Glenn, 2008- Mostly same, add Bennett, Felix jones, remove JJ.

*Dak's weapons in passing not close to what Romo was working with, Dak did have better OL at least one year and Zeke.
Romo- In a more wide open passing offense vs heavy run offense for Dak.



Romo

815 completions, 1280 attempts- 63.67% 10,300 yards, 8.0 YPA, 78 TDs, 43 Ints, 95 Rating, 63 sacks, 263 rush yards, 2 rush tds

Prescott

747 completions, 1155 attempts, 64.7%, 8408 yards, 7.3 ypa, 53 TDs, 21 ints, 94 rating, 80 sacks, 875 rush yards, 14 rush tds


My takeways: Dak's completion percentage is actually higher than Romo's. Does this mean Romo was inaccurate? More than twice the interceptions in about 100 more attempts, was Romo's "spatial awareness" still developing? Dak sacked at a much higher rate. 80 tds for Romo to 67 for Dak. Qb rating very similar.

Total yards: 10,563 for Romo. Dak, 9,283.

Romo had 3 years to learn the game from the bench. Dak played as a true rookie starter.

Romo QB role model was Brett Farve growing up in WS, so he takes risk. Dak was raised to be a Cowboys fan. So Troy Aikman and Staubach were his role models.

So what does this comparison really tell you about Dak Prescott?

 

[G2]

Romo had 3 years to learn the game from the bench. Dak played as a true rookie starter.

Romo QB role model was Brett Farve growing up in WS, so he takes risk. Dak was raised to be a Cowboys fan. So Troy Aikman and Staubach were his role models.

So what does this comparison really tell you about Dak Prescott?

That this post means absolutely nothing.

 

[mcmvp]

Only the truly gifted understand this.

True...and it’s a different game even from when Romo started. He ranked 2nd in completion % his first season and only 6 QBs were north of 64%

In 2016, 14 QBs had a completion % north of 64...2 were 70+

This season 22 QBs are north of 64% completions...and 5 are 70+

These cross comparisons between QBs that played at different times are always good for a laugh...but not much more.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

We’ll agree to disagree on how big the obstacles are/aren’t for Dak. I agree with most of what you are saying, but I think Dak’s struggles are just too bad to blame it on surrounding cast. If this was purely W-L record I wouldn’t be arguing with you at all, because I agree the FO failed majorly.

But regardless, in my opinion of course, if you need to specifically tailor your offense around your franchise QB...you don’t have a franchise QB at all. That’s something you do for backups just trying to get by. It’s not like it’s we are asking to do a ton. A lot of the reads and throws he is missing are just elementary.

I don't know that we necessarily agree and disagree here. I mean, I am on the fence as to how good Dak can be. I am not one of those guys who believes Dak is a sure thing. I am just one of those guys who believes that Dak is not being developed properly. I mean, how many QBs has Garrett actually developed in his 14 year NFL coaching career? I believe the answer to that is zero. That's not being anything other then straight out honest. I honestly don't know if Garrett can develop an NFL QB or not. We haven't really seen it happen. I know this, I think he's put himself and Dak behind the 8 ball with how they have gone about developing Prescott, thus far. So yeah, I don't think that I would say that Dak is a sure thing at this point. I think the jury is still out and it's too early to tell, at this point.

The bolded part of your post above, I definitely think I disagree on that. I mean, I look at a QB like Tom Brady, who is absolutely a Franchise QB in every aspect out there and I ask myself, would he work in an Offense that made him have to be mobile, like a spread type Offense? I think the answer to that is probably no. If he had gone to a team who was too stupid to realize what they had with him and tried to make him run some kind of Offense that called for that, we never would have heard of him IMO. Lucky for him, he came into the league with some pretty smart folks and they realized what they had. They put him in the right Offense and now, he can arguably be discussed as perhaps the GOAT at his position. I think the scheme matters.

JMO

 

[BoysForLife]

Or maybe they both took the pressure off one another and opened up opportunities for one another.

Certainly possible. As I said they were good players.

But, the fact remains that TO and Witten weren't able to "open up as many opportunities" for Bledsoe, as they were for Romo.
The numbers don't lie, friend.

Witten, 05 --66 catches. Witten 06, 64 catches. Witten 07, 96 catches.

TO, in 2007 at age 34, had arguably the 2nd best season of his entire career. Caught 81 balls. Finished with 1355 yards, only 100 yards short of his best career total (2000 season with NIners, 1451 yards). 15 TD (1 short of his career high, 2001 in SF). and his 16.7 yards per reception was the highest total of his career. All of this at age 34.

TO caught passes from HOF Steve Young for his first 4 seasons. And arguably he had a better season at age 34, catching balls from Romo, than he ever did catching balls from Steve Young.

Yes, TO I'm sure benefitted Romo. But you could make a really strong argument that TO benefitted more FROM Romo.

Ask yourself honestly. Take today's Dak Prescott and put him on the 2007 Cowboys. do you believe, in your heart of hearts, that TO goes for 1350 yards and 13 TD on almost 17 yards per reception?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

of course he got better, but he was not on the field so you cannot judge learning by fire and learning on the sidelines

And, you can't compare the instruction you would get from a Parcells and Payton vs what he might be receiving today. That's just gonna be flat out different no matter how you slice it.