Twitter: Fish is adamant Dallas wants to trade for Jamal Adams

[Stash]

Please refer to Article 7, section 7, subsection e, paragraph (i) of the CBA.

"For a Drafted Rookie selected with one of the first ten overall picks in the 2016 or 2017 Drafts, the Paragraph 5 Salary for the player’s Fifth-Year Option shall equal the Transition Tender that applies in the League Year that is the fourth year of the Rookie’s Contract..."

For a Drafted Rookie selected in the first round of the 2018 or any subsequent Draft who is selected to two or more Pro Bowls on the original ballot during any of his first three seasons, the Paragraph 5 Salary for the player’s Fifth-Year Option shall equal the Franchise Tender that applies in the League Year that is the fourth year of the Rookie’s Contract

Looks like you were right. I stand corrected on that, my apologies.

It would appear that I got incomplete information from not one, but two sources.

 

[fivetwos]

The Chiefs traded a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Frank Clark, gave him $21.1m then gave Tyrann Mathieu $14m AAV and won a superbowl. Sure, they have Mahomes but those 2 were critical pieces of the defense.

Yep. Reid didnt sit around and watch the window close on Mahomes rookie deal.

 

[ksg811]

For a Drafted Rookie selected in the first round of the 2018 or any subsequent Draft who is selected to two or more Pro Bowls on the original ballot during any of his first three seasons, the Paragraph 5 Salary for the player’s Fifth-Year Option shall equal the Franchise Tender that applies in the League Year that is the fourth year of the Rookie’s Contract

Looks like you were right. I stand corrected on that, my apologies.

It would appear that I got incomplete information from not one, but two sources.

No hard feelings. I make it a point to read and understand the CBA and have it readily available so I don't have to depend on the "pundits" who often times provide such incomplete information.

 

[Stash]

Khalil Mack also helped Chicago get to the playoffs for the first time in a long time. If you want to trade for and sign a DMVP, you are going to pay for it. I doubt the regret it

Really?

Have you looked at the Bears lately?

They're a flaming pile of dog poo. And their GM is going to get himself fired any day now.

Look at the list:

Pace in Chicago (Mack deal, Trubisky, numerous cap mistakes)
O'Brien burning down the Texans (Tunsil tops the list)
Les Snead and the fire sale already happening with the Rams (Jalen Ramsey)

It's a terrible way to do business and will be the next cautionary tale of what not to do in this league.

 

[Stash]

Control of a player is irrelevant if the player isn't good. I'd give up 4 years of Taco for Adams. I wouldn't for TJ Watt. That's the thing with the draft, it's a crap-shoot. I'll take a proven all-pro over a question mark every time. There's no realistic option at 17 I'm confident in enough to pass on an impact all-pro like Adams.

But it's not simply the matter of the pick for the player, it's the accompanying huge costs of paying for that "proven all-pro".

 

[Stash]

No hard feelings. I make it a point to read and understand the CBA and have it readily available so I don't have to depend on the "pundits" who often times provide such incomplete information.

Now that I know, I'll make it a point to ask you from now on!

 

[fivetwos]

Control of a player is irrelevant if the player isn't good. I'd give up 4 years of Taco for Adams. I wouldn't for TJ Watt. That's the thing with the draft, it's a crap-shoot. I'll take a proven all-pro over a question mark every time. There's no realistic option at 17 I'm confident in enough to pass on an impact all-pro like Adams.

Agreed. Problem is they wont take only 17.

First, anyone who doesnt advocate swapping 17 for Adams cannot be at all OK w taking a safety there.

If you trade a 1st and a 3rd for him, you're basically paying a third to ensure your pick at 17 doesnt bust.

Having to pay the guy is irrelevant when the team has the cap space to do so.

 

[Stash]

You were the talking all these exmples that haven't worked out. Im not doing your research for you

This isn't a one-sided conversation, where I present things for you to decide whether they're good or not. You're not that important.

I've got my ammo of bad moves, you've brought nothing to this point.

You tried to make this claim:

To be fair, the value of picks VS cap consideration of established talent has been changing the last few years. The cap isnt the contraint it was and first round picks arent bullion of gold they were before

Back it up.

 

[Flamma]

Its all relative to the player. Mack is a DMVP and you only afford one or two players of that caliber on your defense

Which, as a side note, I find to be a shame. No more great defenses, and when one pops up, they're broken up quickly. But people prefer parity over quality. So be it.

 

[darthseinfeld]

Really?

Have you looked at the Bears lately?

They're a flaming pile of dog poo. And their GM is going to get himself fired any day now.

Look at the list:

Pace in Chicago (Mack deal, Trubisky, numerous cap mistakes)
O'Brien burning down the Texans (Tunsil tops the list)
Les Snead and the fire sale already happening with the Rams (Jalen Ramsey)

It's a terrible way to do business and will be the next cautionary tale of what not to do in this league.

If the Bears GM gets fired its because of Mitch Trubisky. Not Khalil Mack. After trading for Mack, the Bears have won 20 games WITH Mitch Trubisky at QB

Both Tunsil and Ramsey where significantly overvalued by the teams trading for them. You dont give up multiple first round picks for that caliber talent. But both of those teams made moves that would have sunk them even without trading those picks anyways.

However, none of those GM's have lost their job yet, so thats still speculative

 

[Stash]

The Chiefs traded a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Frank Clark, gave him $21.1m then gave Tyrann Mathieu $14m AAV and won a superbowl. Sure, they have Mahomes but those 2 were critical pieces of the defense.

They traded Dee Ford and cut Justin Houston and Eric Berry to do it. They simply sifted resources from one group of players to others.

And as I recall, who has a record-setting quarterback contract to figure out and $1.50 in cap space?

But I can't argue with the results in year one, the rash moves got them that Super Bowl.

I'll counter with the Rams, who also got reckless with their cap and drafts and came up short.

Now they're screwed without having tasted victory.

 

[Stash]

If the Bears GM gets fired its because of Mitch Trubisky. Not Khalil Mack. After trading for Mack, the Bears have won 20 games WITH Mitch Trubisky at QB

When he gets fired, it will be for his total body of work, not cherry picking.

Both Tunsil and Ramsey where significantly overvalued by the teams trading for them. You dont give up multiple first round picks for that caliber talent. But both of those teams made moves that would have sunk them even without trading those picks anyways.

However, none of those GM's have lost their job yet, so thats still speculative

So you think they're good moves? And that these guys will keep their jobs?

They're reckless moves made by stupid teams.

 

[ksg811]

But it's not simply the matter of the pick for the player, it's the accompanying huge costs of paying for that "proven all-pro".

Agreed, but the cost isn't outrageous as I proved before. A record setting at $15m AAVnew contract would put him #1 in new money, but 6th in cap AAV. That's the benefit of signing extensions as opposed to waiting. You get the benefit of averaging down your cost.

 

[darthseinfeld]

This isn't a one-sided conversation, where I present things for you to decide whether they're good or not. You're not that important.

I've got my ammo of bad moves, you've brought nothing to this point.

You tried to make this claim:



Back it up.

Of the top of my head teams giving up at least a first round picks for established talent

-Chicago- Khalil Mack
-Dallas- Amari Cooper
-Chiefs-Frank Clark
- Texans-Laramy Tunsil
- Steelers- Minkah Fitzpatrick
-Bills- Stephon Diggs
- Rams- Jalen Ramsey
Indianapolis Colts- Deforest Buckner

And thats just the top of my head. There are probably more.

Frankly, listing them was a waste of time. Anyone following the NFL knows that teams have been valueing first round picks less the last couple. Thats a fact.

 

[Stash]

Agreed. Problem is they wont take only 17.

First, anyone who doesnt advocate swapping 17 for Adams cannot be at all OK w taking a safety there.

If you trade a 1st and a 3rd for him, you're basically paying a third to ensure your pick at 17 doesnt bust.

Having to pay the guy is irrelevant when the team has the cap space to do so.

It's never "irrelevant".

No matter how many times fans of this trade try to say it. Cap space always matters. The more you pay one player, the less you have to pay someone else.

This team just watched their #3 receiver, top pass rusher, and best cornerback walk out the door and people still think the cap is some 'myth'?

Insane.

 

[darthseinfeld]

When he gets fired, it will be for his total body of work, not cherry picking.



So you think they're good moves? And that these guys will keep their jobs?

They're reckless moves made by stupid teams.

When did I say the Ramsey and Tunsil were good moves? Im pretty sure I said they were overvalued

If you are going conduct the debate by twisting my words like this, Im walking away now

 

[darthseinfeld]

When he gets fired, it will be for his total body of work, not cherry picking.



So you think they're good moves? And that these guys will keep their jobs?

They're reckless moves made by stupid teams.

If he gets fired, it wont be for the Mack trade. Thats the relevant point to the arguement

 

[Stash]

Agreed, but the cost isn't outrageous as I proved before. A record setting at $15m AAVnew contract would put him #1 in new money, but 6th in cap AAV. That's the benefit of signing extensions as opposed to waiting. You get the benefit of averaging down your cost.

That still leaves us paying top of the market money for:

Quarterback
Right Guard
Right Tackle
Wide Receiver
Running Back
Defensive End
Safety

It's simply unsustainable.

 

[fivetwos]

It's never "irrelevant".

No matter how many times fans of this trade try to say it. Cap space always matters. The more you pay one player, the less you have to pay someone else.

This team just watched their #3 receiver, top pass rusher, and best cornerback walk out the door and people still think the cap is some 'myth'?

Insane.

None of those guys were worth the money they got elsewhere. They were overpaid by a long shot.

 

[Stash]

If he gets fired, it wont be for the Mack trade. Thats the relevant point to the arguement

Really? I guess they're going to tell you exactly why he was fired?

It's funny that you think that your opinions are the "relevant" parts to the argument while trying and failing to dismiss everything else.