Fisher: says it will be Ramsey over Zeke

[Sydla]

yea and you *could* get a 4 time SB winning QB in the 6th round doesn't mean QBs aren't worth top picks.

What separates James and Tomlinson is the 1500 yard backs that are drafted later typically don't offer the same versatility in the passing game

Is there data to back up this comment?

Just perusing this draft, some of the guys we've been linked to in the mid rounds of this draft like Prosise and Dixon, are excellent pass catchers.

 

[LandryFan]

CB is a waste of a pick if they dont take a pass rusher at 34. If they do and get good production from them both picks work out

You can't look at the pick that way, IMO. Otherwise, you could say the same about not selecting a franchise QB unless you also take a WR in round tow, and so on. The only thing you're guaranteed when selecting any player is that you're getting that player.

Looks like Buckner or Tunsil.

Gotcha. The trade possibility/ies is/are the wild card in all of this. There will definitely be some intrigue after the first two picks.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Ok.. You're talking about Rookies. This is a longterm move. You've changed the conversation. We're not playing for 1 year and you can find highly productive RB's all over the place.

No, I didn't change the conversation. You questioned whether Edge would be a top 5 pick in today's NFL and to dispute that I told you what he accomplished as a rookie and second year player. What makes guys worth top picks, typically is their ability to play at a high level right away. Arian Foster isn't all of a sudden worth a top pick, when you consider how many years it took him to develop, you could make the argument that knowing what you know now he would be, but you can't draft with hindsight and pro readiness does factor into a grade.

 

[Aven8]

But Jones is going to play safety.

Claiborne is Claiborne, Scandrick is coming off a ACL, and Carr is on the last year of his deal.



^^^ Even more signs the Cowboys will go Ramsey.

But we don't need 1st round corners everywhere Catch. We can find those everywhere. That's similar thinking to JG's offense where we need dynamic weapons for it to succeed!

 

[Sydla]

They pretty much came out and said they aren't trading it. I also remember a while back the whole any running back can run behind this line mantra was put to bed. We had the same OL in the 90s, yet, when Emmitt sat put 2 games our running game wqs horrible. The chemistry has to be there too man

Who put it to bed? Guys like you who want Elliott?

Frankly, it's kind of hard to argue this point when a guy you think is a bum in McFadden ran for over 1,000 yards in 12 games on a team that absolutely no passing threat for defenses to worry about.

Seems to me, the whole any running back can run behind this OL is more true than false.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Is there data to back up this comment?

Just perusing this draft, some of the guys we've been linked to in the mid rounds of this draft like Prosise and Dixon, are excellent pass catchers.

You're misreading my statement. There are typically lots of backs that are drafted later that are really good pass catchers, and I'd say those are RBs aren't as good runners as others though. My statement was only in reference to Catch17 saying you can get a 1500 yard back later in the draft and there actually being stats to show the guys that did that, like Alfred Morris, don't typically offer much in the passing game or at least as much as an Edgerrin James.

 

[Sydla]

Every time someone says...McFadden did fine especially without Tony and Dez....I keep thinking back that 1. He had a rare year where he played most of the year. 2. He had a rare year where he got 1k+ yards...but good grief do these people forget the lack of TDs or running game combined for.

Pretty easy to figure out. In the redzone, teams can crowd the line especially considering there is no threat whatsoever of scoring a TD through the air.

In other words, I suspect if Murray were still here in 2015 his TD numbers would have dropped substantially too with no Romo and no healthy Dez.

You guys are spending way too much time try to reach firm conclusions of data from a season that no firm conclusions should be reached.

 

[CATCH17]

No, I didn't change the conversation. You questioned whether Edge would be a top 5 pick in today's NFL and to dispute that I told you what he accomplished as a rookie and second year player. What makes guys worth top picks, typically is their ability to play at a high level right away. Arian Foster isn't all of a sudden worth a top pick, when you consider how many years it took him to develop, you could make the argument that knowing what you know now he would be, but you can't draft with hindsight and pro readiness does factor into a grade.

Ok well it still doesn't make sense unless you're putting all the eggs in next years basket.


Highly productive RB's can be found anywhere in the draft and it doesn't take them years and years to develop.

 

[CATCH17]

You can't look at the pick that way, IMO. Otherwise, you could say the same about not selecting a franchise QB unless you also take a WR in round tow, and so on. The only thing you're guaranteed when selecting any player is that you're getting that player.


Gotcha. The trade possibility/ies is/are the wild card in all of this. There will definitely be some intrigue after the first two picks.

Definetely.. Jags could jump us and take Ramsey and then Dallas wouldn't take Tunsil no matter what they say about BPA. They would go Elliot.

 

[pacy]

Well, Wentz with the Eagles and probably Zeke with the Giants. Uugh

 

[CATCH17]

But we don't need 1st round corners everywhere Catch. We can find those everywhere. That's similar thinking to JG's offense where we need dynamic weapons for it to succeed!

Well then we need to trade out of the pick because Ramsey is far and away better than any of the pass rush guys and he is far and away better value than Zeke.

 

[LandryFan]

Definetely.. Jags could jump us and take Ramsey and then Dallas wouldn't take Tunsil no matter what they say about BPA. They would go Elliot.

Agree that we would take EE over Tunsil if stuck at four, but would we be stuck at four if Tunsil is sitting there? I think we would have a suitor or two for that pick. The one thing I don't want to happen is that we trade down so far that we don't end up with a blue chip prospect. That's where the whole thing gets tricky. Bottom line, though...come away with an impact player in round one!

 

[ctrous25]

Well, Wentz with the Eagles and probably Zeke with the Giants. Uugh

I'd be pissed if zeke goes to giants.. even with a bad o line he makes them a lot more difficult to defend

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Ok well it still doesn't make sense unless you're putting all the eggs in next years basket.


Highly productive RB's can be found anywhere in the draft and it doesn't take them years and years to develop.

And I'd still say the type of production Edgerrin James provided is not something that happens all the time. For starters, no RB this year even rushed f0r 1500 yards. Second, how many RBs do you think hit 1500 yards rushing, 500 yards receiving and 17 TDs all in the same season? And not only did Edge do that as a rookie, he exceeded it as a second year player. The ACL injury his third year definitely took away some of his ability, but in 2004, a few years removed from injury, he just missed that threshold.

 

[CATCH17]

Agree that we would take EE over Tunsil if stuck at four, but would we be stuck at four if Tunsil is sitting there? I think we would have a suitor or two for that pick. The one thing I don't want to happen is that we trade down so far that we don't end up with a blue chip prospect. That's where the whole thing gets tricky. Bottom line, though...come away with an impact player in round one!

That's interesting too. I'm sure Dallas would love to drop back a couple of spots and let someone take Tunsil if the Chargers screw them over like that.

Chargers would still get Buckner which i'm sure they are fine with.


What would be crazy is if the Chargers trade from 3 to 5 and then we trade from 4 to 6 and then the Chargers trade with someone wanting Zeke and we end up with Buckner, Bosa, or Lawson.

 

[LandryFan]

That's interesting too. I'm sure Dallas would love to drop back a couple of spots and let someone take Tunsil if the Chargers screw them over like that.

Chargers would still get Buckner which i'm sure they are fine with.


What would be crazy is if the Chargers trade from 3 to 5 and then we trade from 4 to 6 and then the Chargers trade with someone wanting Zeke and we end up with Buckner, Bosa, or Lawson.

That would be crazy...and entirely possible.

 

[stilltheguru88]

Marcus Peters had 8 picks and 2 forced fumbles last year and appears to possibly be already a top 5 DB. He was picked at 18. I like Ramsey, but man that is high for a player that has played multiple positions.

Peters was ranked outside of top 20 cbs. Stop stat searching and watch games. Peters got burnt as much as he got picks.

 

[stilltheguru88]

My worry with Elliot and I'll admit it may not even be rational is that a.) he's a 1 contract player, which would be a disaster even if he's good during that time and b.) he's not a guy that will contribute much in the passing game. And I'm not saying Marshall Faulk good, but even Murray was a guy that exceeded 350 yards his last 2 seasons in Dallas and I'm not sure if Elliot will consistently do that.

Elliot is a better pass catcher than murray

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Pretty easy to figure out. In the redzone, teams can crowd the line especially considering there is no threat whatsoever of scoring a TD through the air.

In other words, I suspect if Murray were still here in 2015 his TD numbers would have dropped substantially too with no Romo and no healthy Dez.

You guys are spending way too much time try to reach firm conclusions of data from a season that no firm conclusions should be reached.

Ah...nope.

One of the things that Mcfadden was known for coming out of college is his break away speed .

There are more ways to run the ball and scored TDs besides being in the red zone or goal line situations....pretty easy to figure out.

The problem with McFadden is that he is a part time back trying to play as a full time back. He was also a part time back in Arkansas where he shared the field with Felix Jones and Peyton Hillis.

Morris is also not a full time back because he is a liability when it comes to catching passes out of the backfield. If he is in the game the defense knows they don't have to worry about him catching a ball.

Dunbar is basically a catching RB who they will do little trick plays with and frankly he is not even healthy right now and we don't even know when he will be ready.

McFadden is NOT a bell cow full time type of back.

Zeke is a full time bell cow running back. You can leave him in to run the ball, you can leave him in to catch it out of the backfield and he is the rare College RB coming into the league that is excellent in pass blocking/protection.
He is rare because he is excellent in all three phases of the game.

People can agree with it or disagree with it....makes no difference to me, however it Can make a huge difference to the team and most scouts know that Zeke is the only RB truly worthy of a upper first round pick, and that is for a reason.

 

[darthseinfeld]

I would like another DE but our guys are only out 4 games and our first 4 games are not that tough.

We should go 3-1 without them.

I dont have any faith in Gregorys long term prospects. It wont be long before he is getting suspended for full seasons. Wouldnt shock me if he gets busted again before his suspension is

I dont have those concerns with Lawrence, but I do still feel we need to get another quality young pass rusher on the roster