Flip-flopping on McFadden

[dbair1967]

or he could go to Baby Dolls with Nelly and cause a riot.

Seriously if you are willing to put the effectiveness of your defense on Adam Jones or some third tier CB you are crazy.

Its funny, so many people are willing to bank on Pacman Jones so they can rationalize trading most/all of our first day picks when a two months ago people wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

I still dont want the guy...but it seems the people at VR are pretty interested in him and might make a deal happen...like I said I would think they wouldnt do the deal unless thay had assurances from the league office that he was going to be reinstated...and I think once he's reinstated he'll probably be fine for this yr...its next offseason we'll have to worry about him again

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Stephen Jones seemed to think drafting McFadden was a possibility didnt he? Does he count? And you cant read an article on the draft that hasnt had some speculation about the Cowboys trying to figure out a way to move up for the guy...it might not happen, personally I think the Raiders will take him and that will be the end of it.



Barber wasnt technically a starter either now was he? Hey I've never claimed he would start anyway, I know he'll split time with Barber. And thats just fine by me. We'll have the best RB tandem in the league by far



Who's making anything up? Anybody who posts anything in these forums is voicing opinions...there's not a single poster in this forum I know of that has any real inside scoop on whats going on at VR and what they are thinking about doing.

David

Stepehn Jones said , 'Dad that could be McFadden." he never said 'we could trade this pick plus our other pick plus more for McFadden.' the pick isn't top 10 much less top 5. Also Stephen and jerry Jones both in the last couple of months have stated that they have no interest in trading up for McFadden. yeah they count but you aren't listening to what they are saying.

As for McFadden being a backup you are being dramatically inconsistent. if a backup Cb isn't worth 22 then how on earth could a backup RB be worth 22, 28 and 60? Fact of the matter is he WOULD be the backup and Barber doesnt suck so its not like were going to be forced to play the backup.

On the other hand the third and fourth corner played a TON last year. Do you remember all those passes that Nate Jones and Jacques Reeves gave up? We basically what you are saying is you are going to bank on Adam Jones and some third tier draft pick like Tyrell Thomas to take those snaps.

Also did it ever occur to you why the press is constantly talking about how we are inquiring about RW, 85 and Boldin? Did you see how are offense was run last season? Did you remember who are Oc is? This is a passing team.

As for making things up. Yes you are. There is ZERO evidence that VR is interested in trading up much les actively trying to. Instead there is beaucoup evidence that we are trying to trade for a WR which makes sense considering how our offense is.

I would rather have Boldin/85/RW, Cason/Talib, and CJ/Rice/Smith over just McFadden any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

 

[Stash]

sorry dude, thats just about as way off as possible...we're talking about giving up 2 or 3 picks for one guys, not 8 picks and 5 players

as for the Bennett, Blaylock, Bell comparison, whoever decided they were similar to McFadden in anything other than 1) playing the RB position and 2) maybe being fast needs to put the crack pipe down

David

No, not "2 or 3 picks"

Multiple first rounders!

Name for me the last running back that a team gave up multiple first rounders to get?

Way off base?

I don't think so.

And that deal didn't work out so great for the Vikings.

 

[Stash]

yet Payton Manning didnt eat this seondary alive when we played them the yr before, and Brady played us when we didnt have Henry and Newman was playing at far less than 100%...

when they are healthy, Newman and Henry are one of the top CB tandems in the league...to suggest we are "paper thin" is exaggeration IMO, there are very few teams with a CB atndem as good as they are...do we need a nickel CB and maybe even a 4th CB? yeah...but those guys can easily be found...Reeves and Jones were about as average as you get, almost anyone we stick out there drafted in the first 4 or 5 rounds will do at LEAST what they did, and most likely be a rather significant improvement


David

So we'll be 'as good' as we were last year?

With the 'next Reeves' giving up pass after pass as the opponent cruises down the field in about 45 seconds.

Opponents dictated where they went with the football by exposing the weakness that was Jacques Reeves. There's a reason he was thrown at more than anyone else.

And instead of shoring up that weakness, some would rather sell out for a guy to backup our current Pro Bowler?

Sorry, but I completely disagree.

And given the future questions regarding both Henry and Newman, it makes corner an even bigger priority.

 

[Rampage]

So we'll be 'as good' as we were last year?

With the 'next Reeves' giving up pass after pass as the opponent cruises down the field in about 45 seconds.

Opponents dictated where they went with the football by exposing the weakness that was Jacques Reeves. There's a reason he was thrown at more than anyone else.

And instead of shoring up that weakness, some would rather sell out for a guy to backup our current Pro Bowler?

Sorry, but I completely disagree.

And given the future questions regarding both Henry and Newman, it makes corner an even bigger priority.

#1 you don't know if some 1st round rookie corner is gonna "shore up" anything.

#2 i doubt he'd be backing up barber for very long.

 

[dbair1967]

.

Also Stephen and jerry Jones both in the last couple of months have stated that they have no interest in trading up for McFadden. yeah they count but you aren't listening to what they are saying.

actually what Jones said is he didnt see anyway the team could trade into the top 3 picks to get him, and had no interest in paying for what it'd cost in draft picks and money to get him there...he never said we werent interested in moving into another spot for him

As for McFadden being a backup you are being dramatically inconsistent. if a backup Cb isn't worth 22 then how on earth could a backup RB be worth 22, 28 and 60? Fact of the matter is he WOULD be the backup and Barber doesnt suck so its not like were going to be forced to play the backup.

no I am not inconsistent...I've said the same thing all along. That there is one really dominant player in this draft I'd like to see us add. As for backup CB, I've said all along we could easily acquire one with a pick other than 22 or 28, and that seems even more likely now if they do indeed trade for Adam Jones. Also, it wouldnt definitely cost us 22, 28 and 61 to get up to get McFadden anyway. It might cost both firsts and a third...or even less depending on where he goes at...if we get McFadden, he'll basically split time with Barber

On the other hand the third and fourth corner played a TON last year. Do you remember all those passes that Nate Jones and Jacques Reeves gave up? We basically what you are saying is you are going to bank on Adam Jones and some third tier draft pick like Tyrell Thomas to take those snaps.

and? what would be wrong with that? is Adam Jones or is he not a VAST improvement over what we had? what would be so bad about Terrell Thomas as a 4th CB?

Also did it ever occur to you why the press is constantly talking about how we are inquiring about RW, 85 and Boldin? Did you see how are offense was run last season? Did you remember who are Oc is? This is a passing team.

I'm all for trading for one of those guys if the Cards, Bengals or Lions want to let one of them go.

As for making things up. Yes you are.

get your head out of your keester...what have I made up? That I think McFadden is the best player in the draft and I think its worth it to mvoe up for him? Sorry, thats not made up...thats what I think

I would rather have Boldin/85/RW, Cason/Talib, and CJ/Rice/Smith over just McFadden any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

If we could acquire one of those WR's, even at a price of one of our firsts and something else I am fine with it...I couldnt care less for Talib, Cason, Chris Johnson or (I assume you mean) Kevin Smith, especially with any of our high picks...Rice I am fine with if we dont move up for McFadden

David

 

[dbair1967]

No, not "2 or 3 picks"

Multiple first rounders!

well la dee freaking da...the 22nd and 28th picks of the draft! holy cow, those are sure fire all pro players arnt they!

Name for me the last running back that a team gave up multiple first rounders to get?

what does this have to do with anything?

And that deal didn't work out so great for the Vikings.

I will continue to say that anyone who thinks trading two or three picks for McFadden (and probably all in the same draft) is ANYTHING REMOTELY close to what the Herschel Walker deal was like is just on crack. They gave up 8 picks spread out over multiple yrs, plus 5 players.

David

 

[Stash]

#1 you don't know if some 1st round rookie corner is gonna "shore up" anything.

#2 i doubt he'd be backing up barber for very long.

I do know that a 1st rounder gives the team a great chance at improvement over Jacques Reeves

I do know that Barber proved 'capable' of a Pro Bowl season

And I do know that whatever happened, Barber would be getting the majority of carries

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lol you think Adam jones is the reliable saviour of our defense.

just as long as you understand that Jones has zero interest in trading up for McFadden and that he does have an interest in getting a veteran WR then fine.

If you want to dream up pie in the sky nonsense that has about no chance of happening then you go right ahead. i prefer reality but thats just me.

 

[iceberg]

#1 you don't know if some 1st round rookie corner is gonna "shore up" anything.

#2 i doubt he'd be backing up barber for very long.

you don't know mcfadden will turn out to be a starting RB in the nfl any more than rashaan salaam was going to. i've seen too many "can't miss" prospects like bozworth, bo jackson and so many others that never panned out to ever want to put my faith in that at any higher a cost than would normally be there.

if we had the #3 pick - sure. take him.

if we give up 3 #1 picks, let him go.

for every can't miss that didn't you'll find a lot of ones who were "eh" in the probowls.

spread your risk and it hurts less when you're wrong.

 

[Rampage]

I do know that a 1st rounder gives the team a great chance at improvement over Jacques Reeves

I do know that Barber proved 'capable' of a Pro Bowl season

And I do know that whatever happened, Barber would be getting the majority of carries

#1 a great idk but a good chance sure. but you still don't know for sure.

#2 he had a good season. no need to use the term "probowl" when roy made it too.

#3 i'm sorry i didn't know i was talking to coach philips.

 

[Stash]

well la dee freaking da...the 22nd and 28th picks of the draft! holy cow, those are sure fire all pro players arnt they!

I guess that depends on whether or not the people making the selctions know what they're doing, doesn't it?

what does this have to do with anything?

Answer the question. It's exactly what the Cowboys would be doing. I'd like to know the last team that did it.

I will continue to say that anyone who thinks trading two or three picks for McFadden (and probably all in the same draft) is ANYTHING REMOTELY close to what the Herschel Walker deal was like is just on crack. They gave up 8 picks spread out over multiple yrs, plus 5 players.

David

I'd make the same accusation of anyone looking to burn two first rounders plus more on a running back in a draft full of good ones.

So I guess we're even.

 

[dbair1967]

So we'll be 'as good' as we were last year?

3rd youngest team in football...13 or so pro bowlers...franchise QB in his prime..elite talent at WR, TE and OL...elite pass rushers at OLB...outstanding starting CB duo...two safeties made the pro bowl...very solid DL totation that was excellent against the run, loaded with youth...yeah, I think we're at least as good as last yr

With the 'next Reeves' giving up pass after pass as the opponent cruises down the field in about 45 seconds.

Reeves was a 7th rd pick who hardly played any his first few yrs in the league...we're probably going out there with Adam Jones as the nickel guy this yr...vast improvement...even it werent him, almost anybody we could draft in the 2nd-4th rds would play at least as good (and most likely) better than Reeves

Opponents dictated where they went with the football by exposing the weakness that was Jacques Reeves. There's a reason he was thrown at more than anyone else.

amazing how we still won 13 games wasnt it?

And instead of shoring up that weakness, some would rather sell out for a guy to backup our current Pro Bowler?

and you can shore up that weakness by using other picks other than 1st rounders on them, there are alot of good CB prospects in this draft...as for Barber carrying the load, that is a pretty big question mark in itself, and as much as I love the guy no defense is ever going to change the way they play to stop him. They dont worry about him taking runs the distance

Sorry, but I completely disagree.

thats fine...just like I disagree with using 1st rd picks on CB's when there isnt that much difference in the next 10 CB's who will go after the top 3...just like I disagree in using a 1st rd pick on a CB if they trade for A Jones

And given the future questions regarding both Henry and Newman, it makes corner an even bigger priority.

Henry might be in his last yr here, or at the least could be in his last yr as a starting CB...I think alot of people are worrying over nothing about Newman...

David

 

[theogt]

why on earth would anyone consider spending a 1st rd pick on a nickel or 4th string CB?

also, McFadden would greatly out produce any other back we could possibly draft, and his impact goes well beyond just "touches"...every play he's on the field defenses will have to account for him...he's the only player in the draft like that

David

A nickel corner is much more valuable than a backup RB. Spending a single first round pick on a nickel corner makes much more sense than spending two first round picks on a backup RB.

Peterson made no difference for an other below average Vikings team too right?

Come on Theo, you are not this naive...you dont want to draft the guy, fine...but dont try to do some mega spin job downplaying the guys potential impact. He's the most explosive player in the draft hands down and he would have a huge impact on our team in ALOT of different ways

David

Yes, Peterson made a difference. But so did Jacques Reeves. If we could replay the Giants playoff game, who would you have rather had play in that game? McFadden or Antoine Cason? If you answer McFadden, you're nuts.

 

[iceberg]

Henry might be in his last yr here, or at the least could be in his last yr as a starting CB...I think alot of people are worrying over nothing about Newman...

David

the worry on newman is do we pay a 30+ year old CB $10 mil a year? it's a valid worry when the pricetag for our superstars is about to force some choices for us.

like signing ware.

 

[dbair1967]

I guess that depends on whether or not the people making the selctions know what they're doing, doesn't it?

the odds are stacked against it regardless of who makes the pick...guys drafted that low have a much lower % of working out

Answer the question. It's exactly what the Cowboys would be doing. I'd like to know the last team that did it.

again I say what difference does it make? How many teams have had multiple 1st rd picks the past few years AND were coming off 13-3 seasons with 13 or so pro bowlers? Not alot of teams get into the position we are in

I'd make the same accusation of anyone looking to burn two first rounders plus more on a running back in a draft full of good ones.

So I guess we're even.

Not really...McFadden is very arguably the best player in the draft and vastly improves our offense, in addition to adding a very explosive player capable of making game changing plays...opposing defenses will have to account for him and game plan around him, improving the effectiveness of what was already a very good passing game...none of the CB's in this draft come anywhere near the grade McFadden has...after him I am all with you, I wouldnt even consider taking a RB in the first rd unless its him because there are alot of decent RB prospects who can be had outside rd 1

David

 

[dbair1967]

A nickel corner is much more valuable than a backup RB. Spending a single first round pick on a nickel corner makes much more sense than spending two first round picks on a backup RB.

I can get me a good nickel CB in the 2nd or 3rd rd...I cant get the best player in the draft there

Yes, Peterson made a difference. But so did Jacques Reeves. If we could replay the Giants playoff game, who would you have rather had play in that game? McFadden or Antoine Cason? If you answer McFadden, you're nuts

did Reeves lose the game for us? Because my memory of the game was of them basically having two or three decent series on offense. We gave up 230 yds of total offense to them, held one of the top rushing offenses in the league to under 100 yds...yet for the 2nd straight yr our offense stunk in the postseason and we were one and done. So no, I am not nuts. We have a loaded team with an outside possibility of getting the best player in the draft at a position where he can make a legit impact. I also have vidid memories of our offense doing nothing at home against Philly two staright years in December, and remember us managing a franchise record worst rushing performance to close this past season

David

 

[theogt]

I can get me a good nickel CB in the 2nd or 3rd rd...I cant get the best player in the draft there

The dropoff between McFadden and Rice isn't nearly the dropoff between Cason and a Patrick Lee.

did Reeves lose the game for us? Because my memory of the game was of them basically having two or three decent series on offense. We gave up 230 yds of total offense to them, held one of the top rushing offenses in the league to under 100 yds...yet for the 2nd straight yr our offense stunk in the postseason and we were one and done. So no, I am not nuts. We have a loaded team with an outside possibility of getting the best player in the draft at a position where he can make a legit impact. I also have vidid memories of our offense doing nothing at home against Philly two staright years in December, and remember us managing a franchise record worst rushing performance to close this past season

David

If Reeves isn't in that last series of the 2nd half, we win the game. Period. You can't get by with scrubs as your 3rd corner. He was the most picked on corner in the entire NFL and it came back to bite us HUGE in the playoffs.

 

[Stash]

3rd youngest team in football...13 or so pro bowlers...franchise QB in his prime..elite talent at WR, TE and OL...elite pass rushers at OLB...outstanding starting CB duo...two safeties made the pro bowl...very solid DL totation that was excellent against the run, loaded with youth...yeah, I think we're at least as good as last yr

Good enough to make the playoffs but not win when you get there.

Reeves was a 7th rd pick who hardly played any his first few yrs in the league...we're probably going out there with Adam Jones as the nickel guy this yr...vast improvement...even it werent him, almost anybody we could draft in the 2nd-4th rds would play at least as good (and most likely) better than Reeves

I would be more confident that a 1st rounder could get it done, rather than a 2-4th rounder. And Jones is only a vast improvement if he plays. Counting on him turns low-risk into high-risk.

amazing how we still won 13 games wasnt it?

Yet not win the one that counted.

and you can shore up that weakness by using other picks other than 1st rounders on them, there are alot of good CB prospects in this draft...as for Barber carrying the load, that is a pretty big question mark in itself, and as much as I love the guy no defense is ever going to change the way they play to stop him. They dont worry about him taking runs the distance

The same way you can get a backup running back later there are planty of good ones this year. The champs got Bradshaw in round 7. Defenses didn't seem to fear Julius Jones' speed either, despite his speed to take it the distance.

[dbair1967]thats fine...just like I disagree with using 1st rd picks on CB's when there isnt that much difference in the next 10 CB's who will go after the top 3...just like I disagree in using a 1st rd pick on a CB if they trade for A Jones[/quote]

What's the more in-demand positon in today's NFL? RB or CB?

Henry might be in his last yr here, or at the least could be in his last yr as a starting CB...I think alot of people are worrying over nothing about Newman...

Even so, who replaces Henry? That makes getting a solid corner all the more important.

 

[dbair1967]

The dropoff between McFadden and Rice isn't nearly the dropoff between Cason and a Patrick Lee.

ok...whatever Theo...Cason is alot closer to a 2nd rd talent that McFadden is, and Rice is nowhere near a 1st rd talent

If Reeves isn't in that last series of the 2nd half, we win the game. Period. You can't get by with scrubs as your 3rd corner. He was the most picked on corner in the entire NFL and it came back to bite us HUGE in the playoffs

he was in on defense for all 13 games we won too wasnt he? And he was probably on the field at some point in the 2nd half of that playoff game too wasnt he? They scored a whopping 7 pts in the 2nd half...D forced two 3 and outs with the game on the line, and our offense blew it...we scored 76 pts on that team the first two games, 17 the last one...anyone who continues to say the defense lost the game and the offense had nothing to do with it is delusional...just like the Seattle game the yr before...the defense did enough to win the game, and the offense blew it

David