For The TO Fans... A Highlight Video

[Idgit]

yeah, but did you watch how Tony played last year?

he stood tall in the pocket and alot of his passes fluttered and/or got away from him

At what point in the year? I thought he started out great, had some obvious problems with his hand when he came back after AZ, played ok until his back was injured in (I think) the second Giants game, and was inconsistent after that. This is where he started missing those intermediate throws and under throwing the deep balls like the one to RW in the BAL game. To me, it looked like back stiffness more than the result of training himself to stand tall in the pocket. Almost like he had problems with some throwing motions.

I'm pulling this all out of my khiladi, though, b/c of course nobody has said anything concrete about how or when (or if, really) he might have been injured late in the season.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Romo and Brady are completly different players. I never got why Romo wanted to be something he wasn't capable of. Brady is extremely accurate and his decision making dwarfs Romo's. Romo makes plays that Brady can't even dream of though. Romo just needs to go back to being Romo! Not some poor mans Tom Brady.

Romo needs to go back to the '06 Romo

but hold onto the ball with 2 hands when scrambling around

and don't throw into double coverage

that's it

 

[Idgit]

Romo and Brady are completly different players. I never got why Romo wanted to be something he wasn't capable of. Brady is extremely accurate and his decision making dwarfs Romo's. Romo makes plays that Brady can't even dream of though. Romo just needs to go back to being Romo! Not some poor mans Tom Brady.

Romo didn't try to be Tom Brady. He taught himself not to step forward on pump fakes. That's not the same thing and wanting to be Tom Brady.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

At what point in the year? I thought he started out great, had some obvious problems with his hand when he came back after AZ, played ok until his back was injured in (I think) the second Giants game, and was inconsistent after that. This is where he started missing those intermediate throws and under throwing the deep balls like the one to RW in the BAL game. To me, it looked like back stiffness more than the result of training himself to stand tall in the pocket. Almost like he had problems with some throwing motions.

I'm pulling this all out of my khiladi, though, b/c of course nobody has said anything concrete about how or when (or if, really) he might have been injured late in the season.

post-Cleveland game, the only game where Romo's protection was really solid, Romo's passes were off

actually, I think it was later, but it was definitely pre-AZ

 

[Idgit]

post-Cleveland game, the only game where Romo's protection was really solid, Romo's passes were off

You thought he looked off in that PHI I game? That was a great offensive performance.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You thought he looked off in that PHI I game? That was a great offensive performance.

it was, but he was throwing some ducks

I mean some of the passes were way off the mark and way out of bounds

either way, you have to agree that you want to see more '06 Romo than the '08 version, but being more secure with the football

 

[AmericasTeam31]

I've already answered each of these questions here, here, here, and here. Reading is fundamental!

I would love to watch the tape of the Commanders game, just to see how many of the passes "thrown to T.O." were actually thrown to T.O. and not thrown away in T.O.'s direction... The stats can be very misleading in this case... Especially if debating the passes thrown to Witten vs. T.O. Witten works primarily over the middle of the field as a TE. A place where none of us would like to see Tony Romo throw one away... But for EVERY pass there must be an intended receiver listed... I am very curious to know how many throw aways were credited as passes to Owens... I would venture to say about 3 which brings his total down to 14 intended "catchable" passes... you gotta be able to look at the whole picture, like you have with the TOP issue... The only way to really know whether we forced the ball to TO too much is to watch the tape again, and maybe you have, but I haven't... See how many balls were thrown in an area that he had a play on the ball?

 

[SultanOfSix]

Actually, there's a sizable body of evidence suggesting that Garrett was trying to placate TO, as I explained here, here, here, and here.

Well, if he was trying to placate TO, why didn't he run more slants and patterns that TO was successful with on other teams, instead of relying on trying to impose his scheme on players in ways that weren't advantageous to them?

He did the exact opposite of what good coaches do: Design his scheme around the ability of his best players, rather than trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

He may have been trying to placate TO, but his ineptitude didn't help things, and when his ego and TO's ego clashed, it resulted in the situation that resulted. Too many people absolve Garrett because of his "Princeton smarts", and because of TO's past history. But, applying character assassination is a logical fallacy when talking about the schemes of football.

 

[Doomsday101]

Well, if he was trying to placate TO, why didn't he run more slants and patterns that TO was successful with on other teams, instead of relying on trying to impose his scheme on players in ways that weren't advantageous to them?

He did the exact opposite of what good coaches do: Design his scheme around the ability of his best players, rather than trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

He may have been trying to placate TO, but his ineptitude didn't help things, and when his ego and TO's ego clashed, it resulted in the situation that resulted. Too many people absolve Garrett because of his "Princeton" smarts, and because of TO's past history. But, applying character assassination is a logical fallacy when talking about the schemes of football.

You don't know if some slant routs were part of the plays coming in, where the QB goes with the ball is determied alot by the defensive formation. Dallas did run slants to TO and Crayton I also seen games where TO short armed it and failed to make the catch. Looking at the highlights of Owens I don't see many outstand catches I saw a lot of plays where the ball was on the money.

 

[SultanOfSix]

You don't know if some slant routs were part of the plays coming in, where the QB goes with the ball is determied alot by the defensive formation. Dallas did run slants to TO and Crayton I also seen games where TO short armed it and failed to make the catch. Looking at the highlights of Owens I don't see many outstand catches I saw a lot of plays where the ball was on the money.

Well, to me throwing 20 passes to a player and have only 7 completed (assuming a few drops) is a sign of either stupidity by the QB or stupidity by the coaching staff.

It will server neither to placate your receiver, or show the smarts of your coaching staff. So, take your pick.

 

[Apollo Creed]

Well, to me throwing 20 passes to a player and have only 7 completed (assuming a few drops) is a sign of either stupidity by the QB or stupidity by the coaching staff.

So, take your pick.

Well if thats stupidity, wouldn't it be insanity on the part of the WR to keep crying for the football after such a spectacle? Even after the game T.O wouldn't shut the hell up. It was always about him, always.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Well if thats stupidity, wouldn't it be insanity on the part of the WR to keep crying for the football after such a spectacle? Even after the game T.O wouldn't shut the hell up. It was always about him, always.

You don't claim to solve a problem - the lack of opportunities - for someone by giving them pointless ones. Throwing to someone twenty times means little if half of them don't have the opportunity to be completed.

 

[Doomsday101]

Well, to me throwing 20 passes to a player and have only 7 completed (assuming a few drops) is a sign of either stupidity by the QB or stupidity by the coaching staff.

It will server neither to placate your receiver, or show the smarts of your coaching staff. So, take your pick.

Sorry I can't think of a game where we threw it 20 times to TO. As the primary WR he was going to get more balls thrown to him and yes at times Romo would force throws in which it is a mistake on his part for doing it. I will say many QB will put their trust in the #1 WR to go up and fight for the ball, maybe Romo should not have put that trust in TO he would have been better off.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Sorry I can't think of a game where we threw it 20 times to TO. As the primary WR he was going to get more balls thrown to him and yes at times Romo would force throws in which it is a mistake on his part for doing it. I will say many QB will put their trust in the #1 WR to go up and fight for the ball, maybe Romo should not have put that trust in TO he would have been better off.

Perhaps you should this thread then.

 

[Doomsday101]

Perhaps you should this thread then.

I don't know what other claimed. I can't think of a game where TO was thrown the ball 20 times, I could be wrong but it does not change the fact that in pass plays the QB has more than 1 option when things break down many times a QB will look to a go to guy for Romo that has been Witten and TO for Troy it was Irvin and Novacheck or Manning and Harrison and Dallas Clark. Yes QB will put the trust in the key players to go out and make the play and fight for the ball. Owens made many plays when the ball was on the money seldom did he go up and fight a CB to knock the ball away to prevent an int.

 

[Arch Stanton]

You don't know if some slant routs were part of the plays coming in, where the QB goes with the ball is determied alot by the defensive formation. Dallas did run slants to TO and Crayton I also seen games where TO short armed it and failed to make the catch. Looking at the highlights of Owens I don't see many outstand catches I saw a lot of plays where the ball was on the money.

The game at Washington springs to mind.....

 

[Doomsday101]

The game at Washington springs to mind.....

Game vs Pitt I can think of 3 slants that went to TO 1 that should have lead to a 1st down to move the chains if Owen takes the yard instead of trying to make more out of it than there was, instead we punt.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

I would love to watch the tape of the Commanders game, just to see how many of the passes "thrown to T.O." were actually thrown to T.O. and not thrown away in T.O.'s direction... The stats can be very misleading in this case... Especially if debating the passes thrown to Witten vs. T.O. Witten works primarily over the middle of the field as a TE. A place where none of us would like to see Tony Romo throw one away... But for EVERY pass there must be an intended receiver listed... I am very curious to know how many throw aways were credited as passes to Owens... I would venture to say about 3 which brings his total down to 14 intended "catchable" passes... you gotta be able to look at the whole picture, like you have with the TOP issue... The only way to really know whether we forced the ball to TO too much is to watch the tape again, and maybe you have, but I haven't... See how many balls were thrown in an area that he had a play on the ball?

In my experience, throw-aways tend to land at the feet of the running back, who is the safety valve in most cases.

TO normally works the intermediate areas of the field.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

Well, if he was trying to placate TO, why didn't he run more slants and patterns that TO was successful with on other teams, instead of relying on trying to impose his scheme on players in ways that weren't advantageous to them?

Do you know how many slants Garrett called last year? Do you even know how often a slant was a viable pattern against a particular defense?

As Hostile pointed out last season, most defenses were playing the Cowboys in such a way to remove the possibility of a slant.

For the record, there are no such things as magic routes; a receiver must be able to get open running any kind of route.

He did the exact opposite of what good coaches do: Design his scheme around the ability of his best players, rather than trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

He may have been trying to placate TO, but his ineptitude didn't help things, and when his ego and TO's ego clashed, it resulted in the situation that resulted. Too many people absolve Garrett because of his "Princeton smarts", and because of TO's past history. But, applying character assassination is a logical fallacy when talking about the schemes of football.

I haven't absolved Jason Garrett from anything. In fact, I have yet to offer any opinion on Jason Garrett, positive or otherwise. I'm merely contending that releasing TO was necessary for the Cowboys to improve on offense next season -- this is not synonymous with defending or absolving Jason Garrett.

 

[SultanOfSix]

Do you know how many slants Garrett called last year? Do you even know how often a slant was a viable pattern against a particular defense?

Do I know off the top of my head? No. Do I have access to the game film to make a determination? No.

But, what I do know is Garrett doesn't run a West Coast type offense, and from what I can remember, he didn't really try to instill more of those type of patterns into the offense. And if he did, why were they not successful? Because of a player who's skills are supposedly declining who's been a successful HOF receiver in one, or because of a coach who's never really had experience with one? Those are questions that can't be answered here.

I would think that if our offensive line injuries were a problem, shorter and quicker routes would absolve or at least attempt to absolve the problem.

As Hostile pointed out last season, most defenses were playing the Cowboys in such a way to remove the possibility of a slant.

A slant is a very difficult pattern to guard against, particularly against bigger receivers because its quick and the receiver typically shields the ball away from the defender who often has to guess quicly whether a slant is coming or not to defend against it.

I haven't absolved Jason Garrett from anything. In fact, I have yet to offer any opinion on Jason Garrett, positive or otherwise. I'm merely contending that releasing TO was necessary for the Cowboys to improve on offense next season -- this is not synonymous with defending or absolving Jason Garrett.

Well, you're also contending that Garrett threw it to TO just to appease him. That doesn't imply a strong coach, nor does it imply a smart one if only 35% of the passes (barring drops or good defense) that go to him in one game are completed.