Former Patriots Video Assistant Speaks!...Pats taped Rams walkthrough before SB?

Beast_from_East

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Nors;1937663 said:
What US legal Law did the Patriots/NFL break that should involve a Senate investigation?

This is McCarthey esque logic.

Since the NFL has an Anit-trust Exemption, in effect, they are a regulated industry.

You dont want Congress involved, then have the NFL give their anit-trust exemption back.

Simple solution.;)
 

Beast_from_East

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SuperCows5Xs;1937671 said:
Looks like they did in the Pitt-Seattle superbowl 2 years ago!:D

Seattle got raped, sure looks like the NFL wanted to give the Rooney's another ring.:mad:
 

Beast_from_East

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Rampage;1937945 said:
which is a nightmare to any nfl fan

So, the Pats were filming the Rams walk-thru before the SB and the guy pretended to be in the press core so he could sneak out unnoticed.

Well, this should answer any doubt if the cheating affected the SB victories. They have a big ASTERIC next to their so-called dynasty now.

Of course our ball-less commish isnt going to do a dam thing about it.:mad:
 

5Stars

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Beast_from_East;1937964 said:
So, the Pats were filming the Rams walk-thru before the SB and the guy pretended to be in the press core so he could sneak out unnoticed.

Well, this should answer any doubt if the cheating affected the SB victories. They have a big ASTERIC next to their so-called dynasty now.

Of course our ball-less commish isnt going to do a dam thing about it.:mad:


Yes, yes they do! It makes me happy!


:laugh2:

This has spiraled so out of control that it will never be fixed! And the Pats have to forever live with it! Great team or not!!
 

Rampage

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Nors;1937663 said:
What US legal Law did the Patriots/NFL break that should involve a Senate investigation?

This is McCarthey esque logic.
ya know i'm talking to a few pats fans on another board and they keep saying that exact same thing.........hhhmmmm:rolleyes:
 

rguido

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just think in a couple of years NFL=wrestling... everything will be fixed
 

burmafrd

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Noticed the lawyer (pep) and the wannabe (ogt) really got exercixed when I pointed out to them that sometimes just because something is legal does not mean its right (now maybe using slavery was like using a sledgehammer to drive a thumbtack, those two are rather oblivious sometimes).
They seem to have a hard time thinking beyond pages in a legal text; as if there is nothing out there if its not a law.
Cheating is immoral and therefore wrong EVEN IF IT IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW.
IT also CHEAPENS the victories of those teams doing it. If they cannot understand that there is no hope for them.
 

Nors

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Rampage;1937977 said:
ya know i'm talking to a few pats fans on another board and they keep saying that exact same thing.........hhhmmmm:rolleyes:

What are you doing hanging out on Pats boards?

Exactly who will be prosecuted and what law was broken here to involve Senate Intervention?

That wingbat senile Senator is so far out of line its
mad.
 

Boysboy

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Really-this is getting rediculous-first they get accused of taping the opponents' defensive signals during the game. NOW they're saying they secretly taped one of their practices?? This is WAY out in left field now.
 

5Stars

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Nors;1938011 said:
What are you doing hanging out on Pats boards?

Exactly who will be prosecuted and what law was broken here to involve Senate Intervention?

That wingbat senile Senator is so far out of line its
mad.


It's not the Senator that is in a mess...

:laugh2: Patty Cake, patty cake, baker man!
 

Rampage

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Nors;1938011 said:
What are you doing hanging out on Pats boards?

Exactly who will be prosecuted and what law was broken here to involve Senate Intervention?

That wingbat senile Senator is so far out of line its
mad.
i'm not hanging out on a pats board. we were talking about it in the "other sports" section on an mma board. why do you have any recommendations for a good cheaters board:laugh2:
 

cowboyeric8

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Rampage;1938036 said:
i'm not hanging out on a pats board. we were talking about it in the "other sports" section on an mma board. why do you have any recommendations for a good cheaters board:laugh2:

I'm sure he is a member.
 

Beast_from_East

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5Stars;1937974 said:
Yes, yes they do! It makes me happy!


:laugh2:

This has spiraled so out of control that it will never be fixed! And the Pats have to forever live with it! Great team or not!!

Yea, I agree this is not going away anytime soon. Senator Spector is a HUGE EAGLES FAN and you know if it is coming out now that the Pats taped the Rams practice before the SB that they probably did it before the Eagle SB as well.

The Senator, who is the Chairmain of the Judiciary Commitee if I remember correctly, is going to be feaking pissed. I LOVE THIS!!!!

:laugh1: :lmao: :lmao2:
 

Boysboy

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burmafrd;1937776 said:
How about barely winning it at all due to cheating? There is a lot more evidence that way. The years the Pats won it- how highly ranked was their offense and defense? Not all that, were they?

Just think about it further...

Have the Rams been this same "Greatest Show on Turf" force since that Super Bowl? Nope-now Mike Martz goes from offensive genious to offensive laughing stock. And now Kurt Warner goes from celebrity-QB to another also-ran.

Have the Panthers been the same force since that Super Bowl loss? Nope-Jon Fox goes from being one of the brightest up-coming coaches to yet another Marty-Ball rehash(at best).

Have the Eagles been the same dominating NFC force since that Super Bowl? Nope-McFlabb goes from elite QB to a whiney, crybaby over-rated QB.

I don't believe for one minute that the Pats are innocent. However-if you want to use this logic that the Pats cheating was THE only thing that determined their Super Bowl wins, then you might as well say the Rams', Panthers', and Eagles' opponents post-Super Bowls have also cheated effectively against them(including us, as we've played them a ton of times).
 

cowboyjoe

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wait to you guys get a load of this talk i found on internet about cheating;

immy Johnson: Howard Mudd 'Was the Best in the Entire League at Stealing Signals'
Posted Sep 29th 2007 6:22PM by Michael David Smith
Filed under: Colts, Patriots, Boston, Indianapolis
Former Cowboys and Dolphins head coach Jimmy Johnson appeared on the Mike and the Mad Dog radio show on Friday to talk about a wide variety of NFL-related topics, including Patriotgate.

And Johnson reiterated his previous statement that he believes what the Patriots did -- violating NFL rules by videotaping the opposing coaches' signals -- is commonplace. Johnson also said he did it himself.

Specifically, Johnson said Howard Mudd, the Colts' offensive line coach, "was the best in the entire league at stealing signals" when Mudd was an assistant to Marty Schottenheimer with the Kansas City Chiefs from 1989 to 1992.

Johnson and Patriots coach Bill Belichick are buddies -- Johnson says during the interview that the two of them go fishing together every off-season -- so it's no surprise that Johnson would try to minimize Belichick's transgressions. But it is a surprise that Johnson would name Mudd specifically. Johnson didn't claim that Mudd still does it, but the accusation is now out there, and Mudd will be asked to respond.

Hat tip: Pro Football Talk.
Usually I don't post on other teams boards, cause your only met with hostility...but the cheating thing is just a huge media built story. Here is an interview with Jimmy Johnson, Superbowl winning head coach of the cowboys. He admits to doing the same thing. Everyone does this. It isn't nearly as bad as it is made out to be, it is only used for cataloging defensive tendencies, not knowing what opposing teams will do (as teams change their signals). I know you will still rip this apart but if you want to brand the Pats with Asterisks than do so for the Cowboys as well. And apparently Marty Schottenheimers teams. Feel free to make excuses about the Pats, bottom line they are a great team...as are the cowboys. By the way he implicates one of Dungy's coaches as well, I only post this cause I get tired of people coming to the Pats boards and still bringing this up. Sorry to be a troll for one post, like I said usually I don't post on other teams boards.


http://www.wfan.com/pages/744503.php

Q: How about the spying thing Jimmy. You're a coach does that bother you what Belichick did?

JJ: Oh please. I've said it on our show. Eighteen years ago a scout for the chiefs told me what they did, and he said what you need to do is just take your camera and you go and zoom in on the signal caller and that way you can sync it up. The problem is that if they're not on the press box side you can't do it from the press box, you have to do it from the sideline. This was 18 years ago.

Q: You think the NFL came down too hard on them?

JJ: No, no, I said it on the show. He was wrong for doing it for the simple reason that the league knew this was going on not ust in New England but around the league. And the league sent out the memorandum to all of the teams saying you cannot do this. And os that's when Bill Belichick was wrong. After he got the memorandum saying don't do it any more, he did it.

Q: Did you ever steal signals?

JJ: Oh in a heartbeat, yeah. Yes I did.

Q: Via video, Jimmy? Or no?

JJ: Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you're going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.

Q: But did you do it by taping the signal caller?

JJ: Yeah.

Q: Oh you did.

JJ: That's what I'm saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimers scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that's how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.
Q: Where'd you put your guy who was videotaping? Where was he?

JJ: My guy was up with my camera crew in the press box. So you'd just put an extra camera up with your camera crew in the press box who zoomed in on the signal callers. That's the best way to do it, but anyway you can't always do that because the press box camera crew might be on the same side as the opposing team. If they're on the same side as the opposing team that's when you need to do it from the sideline.

Q: Also with some operations and some teams they have equipment set up within the stadium so they can just run it ack and check what's going on during the game anyway.

JJ: Oh I'll tell you [laughing] some of the stuff that goes on it's almost comical.

Q: Jimmy don't you think using contraptions like that goes against the spirit of football?

JJ: Well that's why the league put in that you can't use any electronic equipment, during the game, locker room, press box, sideline, this type of thing. They ruled against it and again that's why Bill Belichick was wrong.

Q: How much of an advantage would it give them?

JJ: Well you know Bradshaw and I had a talk back and forth on this. I did it a few times and then I stopped doing it because I didn't think we got much out of it to be honest with you. But games are so close... If it gives you one single play in the ballgame it might be the difference. But again, he was wrong for doing it after the memorandum was sent out by the league, because the league knew that other teams were doing it. And so... it was a commonplace thing though.


« Back to NFL Home
September 29, 2007
Patriots Videogate: Were the Pats' Signals Stolen in the Super Bowl?
by Mike Allen (Analyst) 4 comments Filed Under: NFL, New England Patriots, Philadelphia Eagles, Mike Shanahan, Terry Bradshaw, Roger Goodell, Jimmy Johnson
Given that a number of former and current NFL coaches and players have said that the Patriots weren't the only team to steal signals...
Is it possible that the Pats' three Super Bowl opponents kept the score close by stealing New England's defensive playcalls?

It certainly seems reasonable.

"Picking off signals has been done forever," John Madden said. "That's what you do in coaching. You're looking for anything that gives away what the other team is doing."

Howie Long said anybody who thinks the Patriots are the only club spying on opponents is "naive." Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer admitted to using similar ploys during their sideline days.

"Some of the coaches have selective amnesia," Johnson said, "because I know for a fact there were various teams doing this."

Here's a comment from Peyton Manning:

"I constantly think about teams stealing our signals. I know New England films me when we?re up there. I know Mike Shanahan has tried. I tell our backup quarterbacks in the preseason, ?Don?t signal the receivers...?"

Shanahan, for his part, doesn't dispute the charge.

"Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," the Broncos coach said. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

The point here is that the NFL, and in particular Commissioner Roger Goodell, unfairly characterized the Patriots as isolated "cheaters."

Truth be told, the Patriots did no more or less than what most other NFL teams, if not ALL other NFL teams, were doing.

So the question stands: Did the three teams that the Pats defeated in the Super Bowls have a cameraman, or a pair of binoculars, or three spies in nuns' clothing sitting in the stands and radioing the New England signals to their opponents' bench?

Maybe they did, or maybe they didn?t. We'll probably never know for sure, but it?s time that Goodell officially free the Pats from the ?cheater? label.

As I've said before, Goodell may well have a personal vendetta against the Pats. He has acted unfairly, and in far too much haste?and it seems to me that a grudge must be involved.

Why?

I don't know.

But someday I hope to find out.

All the talk at Dolphins camp today was about the report that the team purchased video of Tom Brady's previous games to learn his auditory calls at the line of scrimmage.
Dolphins coach Nick Saban and several players vehemently denied a Palm Beach Post report, which created national controversy after quoting two unnamed players that said the team "bought" special tapes that included audio of the Patriots quarterback.
Saban opened his Wednesday news conference by saying, "This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life. I mean just because you guys [the media] don't know something goes on, doesn't mean it goes on. Every guy on our team that I talked to about this says, 'Yeah, we've been doing this for 10 years.' We did it in Cleveland . . . watch a TV copy of the game, trying to get the cadence. Now they got us stealing stuff, buying stuff, I mean, like we're in the mafia or something. It's unbelievable."
Zach Thomas said the report was "ridiculous" and blown out of proportion.
"It's kind of frustrating because it takes away what we did in the game," said Thomas. "Everybody is thinking the only way we could beat the Patriots is if we steal their signals. There's no stealing signals. You watch tape. There are no bought tapes. Why do you have to buy tapes in this league? We've got enough tapes that we watch. It's ridiculous.
"I just hate that a quote was chopped up and put in the mix with that. Buying tapes? That was not said [by me] and I hated to be associated with that."
Defensive end Jason Taylor agrees.
"Whoever out there has not been on the sideline, there's a dome that's about this big that the guy holds, that if you flatulate he's going to hear you," Taylor said. "We've got TiVo ? it goes back, like Nick said, I don't know about 100 years, but it goes back a long time. You can turn on your TV or turn on your TiVo and you hear a snap count."
Defensive tackle Vonnie Hollliday also found the allegations ludicrous.
"It's pretty funny," said Holliday. "If there was some stolen audio, I didn't get it. It's amazing how much is made out of this. If anybody who has Comcast or DirecTV can hear a snap count, if you have TiVo. I think it has a lot to do of nothing because it makes no sense.
"We do the same thing every week in preparation. We watch quarterbacks and listen to his cadence to try to get an edge. That's what everybody does. I've played on two teams before coming here, it's nothing different. Somebody is trying to make a story out of nothing."
When Brady was asked if he thought the Dolphins knew his calls at the line of scrimmage, he wasn't amused.
"Someone told me about that on Monday. But I don?t see that. I would love to see evidence of that," Brady said in a team-released transcript. "I mean, our defense knows what our line calls are. It doesn?t matter. They can say that, but I think that is a big crock of you know what. I think it?s a matter of how we played. If you ask them, it probably sounds good for them to say that they have it all figured out, but, you know, they?re 6-7 and we?re 9-4, so you tell me who?s got it more figured out.''
> Discuss this entry
 

The Panch

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Boysboy;1938047 said:
Just think about it further...

Have the Rams been this same "Greatest Show on Turf" force since that Super Bowl? Nope-now Mike Martz goes from offensive genious to offensive laughing stock. And now Kurt Warner goes from celebrity-QB to another also-ran.

Have the Panthers been the same force since that Super Bowl loss? Nope-Jon Fox goes from being one of the brightest up-coming coaches to yet another Marty-Ball rehash(at best).

Have the Eagles been the same dominating NFC force since that Super Bowl? Nope-McFlabb goes from elite QB to a whiney, crybaby over-rated QB.

I don't believe for one minute that the Pats are innocent. However-if you want to use this logic that the Pats cheating was THE only thing that determined their Super Bowl wins, then you might as well say the Rams', Panthers', and Eagles' opponents post-Super Bowls have also cheated effectively against them(including us, as we've played them a ton of times).
You have some pretty lame logic. The Pats have already been proven to cheat earlier this season and were speculated to have done so for years aka during their SB runs. This is just more of a reason to believe it.
 

Boysboy

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The Panch;1938054 said:
You have some pretty lame logic. The Pats have already been proven to cheat earlier this season and were speculated to have done so for years aka during their SB runs. This is just more of a reason to believe it.

I didn't say they were innocent.

What I was trying to say was why haven't the Rams, Panthers, and Eagles been the same dominating forces post-Super Bowls? Warner and his wife go from celebrities to nothing more than after-thoughts, and Mike Martz goes from offensive genious to the biggest laughing stock in this league. Jon Fox goes from upcoming genious to nothing more than a Marty-Ball also-ran. McFlabb goes from elite QB to nothing more than your typical spoiled, crybaby over-rated one. Oh-less not forget Reid's horrible clock management skills are FINALLY biting him in the arse.

Again-I'm not saying the Pats are innocent-but OTOH, tell me why these 3 teams(and their respective coaches/QBs) are a far cry from their elite statuses post-Super Bowls?
 

The Panch

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Boysboy;1938057 said:
I didn't say they were innocent.

What I was trying to say was why haven't the Rams, Panthers, and Eagles been the same dominating forces post-Super Bowls? Warner and his wife go from celebrities to nothing more than after-thoughts, and Mike Martz goes from offensive genious to the biggest laughing stock in this league. Jon Fox goes from upcoming genious to nothing more than a Marty-Ball also-ran. McFlabb goes from elite QB to nothing more than your typical spoiled, crybaby over-rated one. Oh-less not forget Reid's horrible clock management skills are FINALLY biting him in the arse.

Again-I'm not saying the Pats are innocent-but OTOH, tell me why these 3 teams(and their respective coaches/QBs) are a far cry from their elite statuses post-Super Bowls?
Once again, horrible logic. This has a damn thing to do with the accusations made. Who cares the back story of the teams they beat? The fact is they're being accused of cheating to beat em.
 
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