Free agent QB situations should be leverage for contract negotiations

[ABQCOWBOY]

Mediocrity at QB got SF to the Super Bowl, and they easily could have won (some would argue that they should have won). Foles was mediocre (at best) and won. Osweiler/Manning was probably less than mediocre and won. Flacco was mediocre and won. Truthfully Eli wasn't much above mediocre, and he won twice.

The thing is, there really isn't an abundance of Mahomes/Rodgers/Brees/Brady/Wilson types to go around. We all would love to have a QB of that quality, but they are rare. So rare that 3 of those 5 guys were drafted 15-20 years ago. The bottom line is that most teams are going to have to find a way to win without having a truly elite QB, whether it's with a strong running game or a balanced offense, or a strong defense or some combination of things.

A team can't afford to decide it can't win without one of those rare, truly elite QB's, and shoot itself in the foot trying to find that needle in a haystack player instead of building an overall team that can win.

Exactly right Omer. I agree with you 100%

BTW, the highest paid thing was from a link one of the posters posted last week, I believe, that reported Dak and his agent had turned down an offer of 35 mil annually. I'm pretty sure that this was where that came from. I don't have the link though, sorry about that.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

No he’s not under contract but you’re saying we don’t have a QB because of it. We have a QB because we can franchise him. He’s not going anywhere! All you want to do is argue.

That's correct, that's exactly what I am saying because if you don't have somebody who is under contract, then you don't have that player on the team. You may own rights to that player but he's not on the team unless he has a contract. Hell, I believe that the New York Yankees still own the rights to John Elway but he's never been a Yankee.

See, this is the problem here. This is why I hate trying to have any kind of conversation with you. I said, from the get go, that I didn't think he would hold out and that we should tag him but what do you do? You make up some fictitious opinion and try and suggest that I've said it. Well, I didn't say it. I asked what QB were you talking about because we currently have no QB under contract.

So here is what professionals do. They look at the facts, they plan for contingencies and then they try and design a plan that might work. They don't simply throw their hands up and give in to whatever demands are put on them.

 

[KJJ]

That's correct, that's exactly what I am saying because if you don't have somebody who is under contract, then you don't have that player on the team. You may own rights to that player but he's not on the team unless he has a contract. Hell, I believe that the New York Yankees still own the rights to John Elway but he's never been a Yankee.

See, this is the problem here. This is why I hate trying to have any kind of conversation with you. I said, from the get go, that I didn't think he would hold out and that we should tag him but what do you do? You make up some fictitious opinion and try and suggest that I've said it. Well, I didn't say it. I asked what QB were you talking about because we currently have no QB under contract.

So here is what professionals do. They look at the facts, they plan for contingencies and then they try and design a plan that might work. They don't simply throw their hands up and give in to whatever demands are put on them.

If you want to keep going on this feel free but I have other things I’d rather be doing. We don’t agree on anything and it’s best to move on.

 

[CATCH17]

Mediocrity at QB got SF to the Super Bowl, and they easily could have won (some would argue that they should have won). Foles was mediocre (at best) and won. Osweiler/Manning was probably less than mediocre and won. Flacco was mediocre and won. Truthfully Eli wasn't much above mediocre, and he won twice.

The thing is, there really isn't an abundance of Mahomes/Rodgers/Brees/Brady/Wilson types to go around. We all would love to have a QB of that quality, but they are rare. So rare that 3 of those 5 guys were drafted 15-20 years ago. The bottom line is that most teams are going to have to find a way to win without having a truly elite QB, whether it's with a strong running game or a balanced offense, or a strong defense or some combination of things.

A team can't afford to decide it can't win without one of those rare, truly elite QB's, and shoot itself in the foot trying to find that needle in a haystack player instead of building an overall team that can win.

Mediocre is fine as long as it’s cheap..

The 9ers would’ve been an outlier had Jimmy G won it.. Also, they are not a vet team we like we are. They still didn’t win though.. Just another team to lose to a QB on a rookie deal.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

If you want to keep going on this feel free but I have other things that I’d rather be doing. We don’t agree on anything and it’s best to move on.

Cool, go do that, by all means.

 

[OmerV]

Exactly right Omer. I agree with you 100%

BTW, the highest paid thing was from a link one of the posters posted last week, I believe, that reported Dak and his agent had turned down an offer of 35 mil annually. I'm pretty sure that this was where that came from. I don't have the link though, sorry about that.

I don't doubt what you are saying about the report, but we see a lot of reports that never prove to be true, and frankly seem to be just ways for the media to report something in the absence of any real information. The only direct quote I've seen from Dak was that he didn't feel he could ask to be the highest paid QB since he hasn't won a Super Bowl. Even that I'm not taking to the bank, but at least it's from an actual party to the negotiation and not just an unverifiable "report".

 

[Proof]

If you want to keep going on this feel free but I have other things I’d rather be doing. We don’t agree on anything and it’s best to move on.

smartest move you’ve ever made. Guys like talking to teddy Ruxpin that speaks Spanish

 

[Proof]

I don't doubt what you are saying about the report, but we see a lot of reports that never prove to be true, and frankly seem to be just ways for the media to report something in the absence of any real information. The only direct quote I've seen from Dak was that he didn't feel he could ask to be the highest paid QB since he hasn't won a Super Bowl. Even that I'm not taking to the bank, but at least it's from an actual party to the negotiation and not just an unverifiable "report".

that and the quote where he was asked what he turned down and he said “people only look at the numbers and not the details “

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't doubt what you are saying about the report, but we see a lot of reports that never prove to be true, and frankly seem to be just ways for the media to report something in the absence of any real information. The only direct quote I've seen from Dak was that he didn't feel he could ask to be the highest paid QB since he hasn't won a Super Bowl. Even that I'm not taking to the bank, but at least it's from an actual party to the negotiation and not just an unverifiable "report".

It was supported by a tweet from a different source but I agree. However, it hasn't been denied by Dak or his agent either. I think the Cowboys may have offered him a deal like that and I think it was turned down. If that's the case, then I don't know what other choice the Cowboys have, other then tagging him.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

smartest move you’ve ever made. Guys like talking to teddy Ruxpin that speaks Spanish

You got something against people who speak Spanish?




So does your like mean that you do have something against people who speak Spanish or no?

 

[OmerV]

Mediocre is fine as long as it’s cheap..

The 9ers would’ve been an outlier had Jimmy G won it.. Also, they are not a vet team we like we are. They still didn’t win though.. Just another team to lose to a QB on a rookie deal.

Garoppolo wasn't cheap. He got a huge contract and had only started 3 NFL games ever. Of the QBs I named, Foles was probably the only one that was truly cheap because he was signed as a backup.

As far as the comment about "just another team to lose to a QB on a rookie deal", you act like that's the norm. Who are all these QBs that won on a rookie deal? Brady did … 17-18 years ago. Wilson may have still been on his rookie deal in 2013. There are a smattering maybe, but that is far from the norm.

As for Mahomes being on his rookie contract, how many Mahomes kind of players do you think are floating around? When was the last one that was even close? Russell Wilson in the 2014 draft? Aaron Rodgers in the 2005 draft?

It's easy to act like these kind of players are just there to be had, but they aren't. The next level is the best most teams can hope for - the Prescott, Wentz, Watson, Goff, Cousins, Ryan level. The Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, Brady level is the needle in a haystack level. It took 20 years of drafts to make the list even that big.

 

[CATCH17]

Garoppolo wasn't cheap. He got a huge contract and had only started 3 NFL games ever. Of the QBs I named, Foles was probably the only one that was truly cheap because he was signed as a backup.

As far as the comment about "just another team to lose to a QB on a rookie deal", you act like that's the norm. Who are all these QBs that won on a rookie deal? Brady did … 17-18 years ago. Wilson may have still been on his rookie deal in 2013. There are a smattering maybe, but that is far from the norm.

As for Mahomes being on his rookie contract, how many Mahomes kind of players do you think are floating around? When was the last one that was even close? Russell Wilson in the 2014 draft? Aaron Rodgers in the 2005 draft?

It's easy to act like these kind of players are just there to be had, but they aren't. The next level is the best most teams can hope for - the Prescott, Wentz, Watson, Goff, Cousins, Ryan level. The Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Brees, Brady level is the needle in a haystack level. It took 20 years of drafts to make the list even that big.

I never said he was cheap..

You are correct. He is overpaid.. The team around him is pretty cheap though. It's rare that a high paid QB has a good roster like that around him not making much money.

Yet still.. No Superbowl..

Rookie contract QB's and Cheap elite vets are winning superbowls.

Coaching, Cheap QBs , and coaching win Superbowls. You need 2 of the 3 at least.

 

[OmerV]

that and the quote where he was asked what he turned down and he said “people only look at the numbers and not the details “

That doesn't really say anything though. It could mean he is asking for more or less in annual salary, or more or less in number of years, or more or less in guarantees.

 

[Redball Express]

100% OK with letting Dak walk and signing Brees for a year.

I don't care how set up we are for the future if we can win right now.

I agree.

We have to stop worrying about finding this Holy Grail QB voyage.

Dak is not a blue chip QB. He has had 4 years to get to the top and he still is not there and he wants another 5 year deal at $40 ml/yr to stay?

That just makes no sense.

Give me Brees or Brady for that money.

These guys have mastered the QB position and can get us to a SB.

Dak?

Not so much.

Winning is all that matters.

Let's wake up.

 

[Ranching]

How could it not be?

Look at New Orleans..

Brees will be available..

Bridgewater is available.

Taysom Hill is a RFA and I can’t imagine them not wanting to see him on the field ASAP with his contract status and their long term future at that position.

So we could have Drew Brees and Tom Brady both available.

Then there is a long list of other QB’s starting with Winston, Rivers, Mariotta, potentially Derek Carr.

Who knows how the chips could fall...

How is this not a ton of leverage for the Cowboys to use in contract negotiations if they so choose.

Some of those guys are upgrades and some of them would perform just as good as Dak if they were in Dallas.

If Drew Brees becomes available Dallas should be all over that.

Instead we will give Dak a long term deal and some smart team like the Titans will go get Brees or Brady and be better off for it then we are.

Lol!! I can't wait for Dak to get his HUGE contract, just to see the posts on the CZ! Should be fun. I like Dak, but I really don't care who wears the Star.

 

[OmerV]

I never said he was cheap..

You are correct. He is overpaid.. The team around him is pretty cheap though. It's rare that a high paid QB has a good roster like that around him not making much money.

Yet still.. No Superbowl..

Super Bowls aren't guaranteed for anyone. That's why even QBs that are considered "elite" don't win every year. But SF was there, and in a position to win, which is far more than most QBs can say, including Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Drew Brees. And, as you said, it's still a fairly young team and they may well have more chances. Even the elite QBs don't always win in their first time.

The bottom line is it takes more than a QB, and far and away most teams cannot count on finding the truly elite, needle in the haystack QB. So, what do you expect them to do - build a team, like SF did, or just give up until they find the next Brady, Brees etc …?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Garoppolo wasn't cheap. He got a huge contract and had only started 3 NFL games ever.

Yes and no...... The thing that made Garoppolo's contract expensive was the up front money. If you actually look at his deal, it's a really, really good deal for San Francisco. The up front money wasn't really even that big a deal because they had to spend cap. I think every team has to spend something like 65% on players salaries according to the CBA to be in compliance over a certain period of time and the 9ers had to get there so they spent cap up front on JG, while setting up a really team friendly deal. I mean, they really did do a great job right there. It didn't hurt them, it helped, they had to spend the money either way so yeah, it looks bad but it really was not. It's one of those deals where people throw it up and say, "Look at Garoppolo, that's what QBs cost." but his sito was really much different then your average FA IMO.

 

[CATCH17]

Super Bowls aren't guaranteed for anyone. That's why even QBs that are considered "elite" don't win every year. But SF was there, and in a position to win, which is far more than most QBs can say, including Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady and Drew Brees. And, as you said, it's still a fairly young team and they may well have more chances. Even the elite QBs don't always win in their first time.

The bottom line is it takes more than a QB, and far and away most teams cannot count on finding the truly elite, needle in the haystack QB. So, what do you expect them to do - build a team, like SF did, or just give up until they find the next Brady, Brees etc …?

I look at teams who do win championships.

I don't care about the 31 others that don't.

I agree that it takes more then a QB. Thats why I don't like paying mediocre QB's a ton of money.

 

[CATCH17]

Lol!! I can't wait for Dak to get his HUGE contract, just to see the posts on the CZ! Should be fun. I like Dak, but I really don't care who wears the Star.

Well.. Thats about all the fun you'll be getting.. Celebrating the QB getting paid millions of dollars while our superbowl chances go down the drain.. Yay.

 

[Corso]

I'm convinced.