FWST Blog: Assistant Interviews and Ireland Updates

theogt;1873246 said:
Yeah, the same Jimmy Johnson that didn't want Troy Aikman. Guess Jerry should be glad he didn't listen to him. Otherwise he might not have all those Super Bowls.

Yes, of course, Jimmy didn't want Troy and was over ruled by Jerry who loved Aikman more than Jimmy...so much so that the GM then allowed Jimmy to pick Steve Walsh in the supplemental draft of that same off-season he picked Troy. It's funny how Jerry defended Troy over that evil task master Jimmy, yet allowed another QB to be drafted with their 1st round pick, which would have been the #1 overall, to compete with Troy.

You guys are absolutely hilarious with some of this stuff....:lmao2:
 
When Ireland bolts, also look for him to raid the Cowboys' scouting staff over the next year or two as well. Like I said before, Ireland's departure could mimic Jimmy's Johnson's departure when it came to the Cowboys' drafting prowess.
 
Bach;1873820 said:
More revisionist history.

There were several analysts back then that thought the #1 pick should be either Aikman or Mandarich, but there was no way we were choosing anyone other than Troy.
LOL. I'm glad you're so certain. Funny that reports over the past two decades have consistently been that Jimmy wanted Mandarich. But it's whatever fits your agenda.
 
Bach;1873820 said:
More revisionist history.

There were several analysts back then that thought the #1 pick should be either Aikman or Mandarich, but there was no way we were choosing anyone other than Troy.

Not when you're coming off a 3 and 13 season with Steve Pelluer and Kevin Sweeny as your QB's.
 
theogt;1873846 said:
LOL. I'm glad you're so certain. Funny that reports over the past two decades have consistently been that Jimmy wanted Mandarich. But it's whatever fits your agenda.

Consistently? Funny that I haven't seen or heard these consistent reports over the past two decades. Any idea where we can find them?
 
The revisionist history was that Aikman was the consensus #1 overall. Here's a nice article from NYT:

According to most N.F.L. talent assessors, Aikman wasn't the best pure prospect in yesterday's draft. Most scouts thought Tony Mandarich, the Michigan State offensive tackle who is almost as big as the Green Bay Packer locker room he soon will enter, and Deion Sanders, the Florida State cornerback chosen by the Atlanta Falcons, were better prospects, pound for pound and position for position.

''As a quarterback,'' another N.F.L. assessor said, ''Aikman doesn't rate as high as Terry Bradshaw or Vinny Testaverde did coming into the N.F.L.''
 
As long as I can remember, franchises have taken QBs higher then maybe they needed to because they are QBs. That's never going to change. If your asking if other players had better draft grades, the answer is probably yes. That's no surprise. If your asking if Jerry and Jimmy were ever going to take Tony M, the answer is no. We know this because the opportunity to take another player was there. The opportunity to trade out of the number 1 spot and take Mandarich was also there. We did neither so clearly, Aikman was the pick.
 
ABQCOWBOY;1873900 said:
As long as I can remember, franchises have taken QBs higher then maybe they needed to because they are QBs. That's never going to change. If your asking if other players had better draft grades, the answer is probably yes. That's no surprise. If your asking if Jerry and Jimmy were ever going to take Tony M, the answer is no. We know this because the opportunity to take another player was there. The opportunity to trade out of the number 1 spot and take Mandarich was also there. We did neither so clearly, Aikman was the pick.
As long as I can remember, franchises that draft a QB #1 overall don't also go and draft another one high in the supplemental draft. So, it's pretty clear that someone in the organization wasn't completely on board with Troy as the future of the franchise. Clearly, Aikman was our pick. But clearly, someone wasn't completely on board.
 
Years ago, I do remember Jimmy Johnson saying in an interview that he wanted RB Blair Thomas in 1990 over Emmitt Smith. I also remember him saying he was teetering between Emmitt and RB Darrell Thompson from Minnesota.
 
I remeber getting a copy of the Old Dallas Cowboys Weekly and it had a picture of Gil Brandt running off the Field with Aikman after UCLA won the Cotton Bowl, that's why I think the Landry regime drafted him.
 
Dodger12;1873812 said:
We regressed because of absolutely horrific drafts. You give a ton of excuses but completely gloss over the primary one; poor drafts were the bottom line reason for our demise. And if you're in salary cap hell, then you fill in the blanks with less expensive draft picks.

Interesting... You argue that we regressed because of absolutely horrific drafts, and in the same sentence, because of salary cap issues, expect us to fill in the blanks with less expensive draft picks.... makes a hell of a lotta sense...
 
Dodger12;1873841 said:
Yes, of course, Jimmy didn't want Troy and was over ruled by Jerry who loved Aikman more than Jimmy...so much so that the GM then allowed Jimmy to pick Steve Walsh in the supplemental draft of that same off-season he picked Troy. It's funny how Jerry defended Troy over that evil task master Jimmy, yet allowed another QB to be drafted with their 1st round pick, which would have been the #1 overall, to compete with Troy.

You guys are absolutely hilarious with some of this stuff....:lmao2:

That is actually what happened.

Jimmy wanted to draft Mandarich. He thought Aikman was a "loser" and Walsh was a "winner". Those aren't my words they are Jimmy's.


After their rookie season Jimmy took a poll of his assistants and only 2 believed Aikman was actually the better QB(1 happened to the QB coach, lol). Now you know why his assistants sucked as future head coaches:)

They had Walsh at Miami and had won a national championship with him, thus they believed in him.

Jimmy provided the info that yielded such great drafts especially on defense but Troy Aikman was a done deal from a marketing standpoint. Jerry was not going to allow anyone else to be drafted. Even prior to(possibly during) that horrid 1 win season when asked about granting the number 12 to any player ever Jerry said only if UCLA's QB(Aikman) is there when we draft and he wants it.

Jimmy was also targeting linebacker James Francis when he ended up with Emmitt Smith. He only drafted Emmitt after Joe Brodsky literally stood on a table yelling at them to trade up and draft him. Brodsky had watched Emmitt every since his sophomore year of high school and had recruited him out of high school.

What Jimmy did well both here and with the Dolphins was draft defensive backs. He may be the foremost defensive back expert in the nation.
 
theogt;1873883 said:
The revisionist history was that Aikman was the consensus #1 overall. Here's a nice article from NYT:

Nice try Theo, but that's the most lame attempt to prove a point and, quite honestly, I expected more from someone who's spent hundreds of thousands of dollars for law school. Talk about agendas.

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sharedc...lassic/recordbook/draft/1989/042189draft.html

Cowboys, Aikman make history
$11.037 Million pact NFL rookie record
4/21/1989
By BERNIE MIKLASZ / The Dallas Morning News
On Thursday, the Dallas Cowboys made UCLA's Troy Aikman their quarterback of the future, and a very wealthy young man, by giving him the largest rookie contract in NFL history.

Shortly before 2 p.m., Aikman, 22, walked into the office of Cowboys owner Jerry Jones and signed a six-year, $11.037 million deal that took only two weeks to negotiate.

Aikman was represented by California attorney Leigh Steinberg, who hammered out the contract with Jones' business partner, Mike McCoy. The deal surpassed, by nearly $3 million, the previous top rookie contract: quarterback Vinny Testaverde's six-year $8.2 million agreement with Tampa Bay in 1987.

"It's pretty much a dream come true for me," said Aikman. "It's beyond words. I wanted this so badly, to be a Dallas Cowboy."

Aikman was presented with a new No. 8 Cowboys jersey during Thursday's news conference at Valley Ranch. Aikman then was led to his new locker – the one formerly occupied by tight end Doug Cosbie, who signed with Denver last month.

Sunday morning, there will be more pomp and pizazz. Aikman will fly to New York to be presented by NFL commissioner Pete Rozelle when the Cowboys officially make Aikman the No. 1 overall selection in the 1989 draft.
That ceremony will be anti-climactic; the Cowboys certainly made their feelings known Thursday.

"Troy has the talent to take the Cowboys back to where we all want them to be," said Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson. "You'd be amazed at what some of the teams were willing to give up (in a trade) for Troy. But we've known that this was our guy."

Johnson said he never really considered trading Aikman or drafting another player. But he thought that listening to trade offers would be good experience for a rookie NFL coach. And Johnson wanted to keep quiet until Jones could get Aikman signed.

Johnson made up his mind the weekend of March 17-19, when he worked out Aikman in Los Angeles.

"We knew without question that Troy Aikman was our guy when we got back on the plane after the workout at UCLA," Johnson said.

Said Jones: "When Jimmy called me and said, "Man, you should see him," I just raised up and yelled into the phone, I was so excited. There was no decision to make here."


After the shouting, all that was left was working out the details of the contract. Surprisingly, Jones publicly volunteered a contract figure – $11.2 million – that he apparently overstated in all of the excitement. According to sources, the actual total compensation came to $11.037 million.

Aikman will receive a signing bonus of $2.75 million and yearly salaries that range from $787,000 in his rookie season (1989) to $2 million in the final year of the contract (1994).

Months before Aikman will throw his first official pass in the NFL, he already is the league's third highest-paid player, with an average yearly compensation of $1.839 million.

And he's also the highest-salaried Cowboy, surpassing running back Herschel Walker's $1 million for 1989.

Aikman seemed unaffected by the vast riches of the standard-setting contract. He will establish a yearly $5,000 scholarship at his two alma maters: Henryetta (Okla.) High School and UCLA. He also will donate $1,000 to charity for each game won by the Cowboys.

"I want to play the game because I have fun doing it," Aikman said. "I certainly don't want to look at it as a business, although it is."

Jones, who purchased the Cowboys and Texas Stadium Corp. for $140 million on Feb. 25, expressed no regrets after making an $11 million investment.
This was a Jones production all the way. Former Cowboys president Tex Schramm, who resigned Tuesday, and current vice president Joe Bailey weren't present for Thursday's news conference. Jones was making it clear that the Cowboys now were his team, and Aikman probably was his most-prized possession.

"I said it the first time I stood here," Jones said. "We're committed to winning, and we'll go and get it if it's humanly possible. We'll do whatever it takes to make our fans proud of the Cowboys.

"Troy is not the man that single-handedly is going to solve all the Cowboy problems. He's not going to single-handedly solve all the problems of the world. But I tell you this: you put you together a few Troy Aikmans back to back, and you'll knock a few dents in it."

It isn't clear how soon Aikman will be permitted to start denting some NFL defenses. One thing is certain: Aikman will benefit in his rookie development by signing early. He will be able to participate in a minicamp in May and Johnson's three-week passing-game school in June.

"We really don't have a timetable for Troy," Johnson said. "I know he wants to get into it. He's committed to being the best that he can be, and we'll go at his pace."

The Cowboys have three quarterbacks on the roster: starter Steve Pelluer, Danny White and Scott Secules.

"We have some quarterbacks with the club that have done some good things, so we'll have to wait and see what we do in training camp," Johnson said.
Aware of the problems John Elway had early in his rookie season with Denver, Aikman would not mind serving an apprenticeship.

"It's a matter of how quickly I pick up the system," Aikman said. "I won't know that until I get on the field and start playing. Generally speaking, I think the ideal situation is to take things slowly with a young quarterback."

But will Cowboys fans, starved after three consecutive losing seasons, be willing to wait? It won't take long for Aikmania to begin. Aikman is stepping into a rebuilding situation, and all Cowboys quarterbacks forever will be compared to Roger Staubach, a Hall of Famer.

"Those things are inevitable," Aikman said. "I hope people do compare me to Roger Staubach five years from now, and I'm mentioned in the same breath as him. It would certainly be ridiculous for me to try to live up to Roger Staubach and try to fill his shoes and make people forget about him. They never will. He's a legend in his own time. I just want to do the best I can."
Already, Aikman has surpassed Staubach by one measure.

In 1979, his final season with the Cowboys, Staubach was paid $213,000.
 
Dodger12;1873874 said:
Consistently? Funny that I haven't seen or heard these consistent reports over the past two decades. Any idea where we can find them?

Try google or better yet the numerous books written on the early 90's Cowboys.

It is rather embarrassing to use Roger's nickname and attach it to such clearly ill-informed opinions.

We fell apart because Larry Lacewell took over personnel and scouting. That is certainly true but Jimmy was never a 1 man front office, same as BP wasn't. The Cowboys personnel guy originally was Bob Ackles and he was plenty good at his job.

It is also much harder to draft at 30ish in each round than it is with a ton of very high draft picks.

Probably the worst GM Jerry move was trading for Joey Galloway in an attempt to stretch out this run. Had we had yearly paring down like what NE does we could have lasted as a dynasty for a while longer but ultimately when Troy was gone we needed a new QB and had no idea how to get one.

Jerry was far to loyal to guys in their 30s like Charles Haley, Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith et al. Those guys all hurt us in cap cash and in performance at the end of their careers or as their cash sat on the books past their playing days.
 
theogt;1873883 said:
The revisionist history was that Aikman was the consensus #1 overall. Here's a nice article from NYT:

And it's funny how you attribute things to Jimmy Johnson and provide a link to prove your point, but the article quotes unnanmed NFL talent assessors and unnamed scouts on how they viewed Aikman and Mandarich. No mention of any Cowboys love affair with anyone else other than Troy. Further down your own link, the article states that the Cowboys were negotiating with Aikman and his agent in early April. Troy was their man all along and all that was left were the details.

"When the Aikman negotiations began in early April, according to Steinberg, the Cowboys used Testaverde's six-year, $8.2 million contract as a barometer.

''I was there with Jerry Jones, Jimmy Johnson, Steve Jones and Mike McCoy,'' said Steinberg, referring to the new owner, the new coach, the owner's son and the owner's oil-business partner. ''We started talking at 8 o'clock the night of April 7, then we went to a diner out of the 50's, then we sat in the foyer of the Hyatt at the airport until 6:30 in the morning, then we picked up again at 8 that morning.''

After that, Steinberg and the Cowboys completed the contract negotiations by modern technology."
 
Ah yes, quotes from Jimmy after the draft saying that Aikman was their guy. That's convincing. Actions speak louder than words. And the action of drafting a QB in the supplemental draft rings loud and clear.
 
ABQCOWBOY;1873900 said:
As long as I can remember, franchises have taken QBs higher then maybe they needed to because they are QBs. That's never going to change. If your asking if other players had better draft grades, the answer is probably yes. That's no surprise. If your asking if Jerry and Jimmy were ever going to take Tony M, the answer is no. We know this because the opportunity to take another player was there. The opportunity to trade out of the number 1 spot and take Mandarich was also there. We did neither so clearly, Aikman was the pick.

:hammer:
 
jterrell;1873936 said:
Jimmy was also targeting linebacker James Francis when he ended up with Emmitt Smith. He only drafted Emmitt after Joe Brodsky literally stood on a table yelling at them to trade up and draft him. Brodsky had watched Emmitt every since his sophomore year of high school and had recruited him out of high school.


It wasn't Brodsky, although I don't doubt he wanted Emmitt since he was recruiting Emmitt to UM, it was former Cowboys scout ( and Cleveland Browns player ) John Wooten. He convinced Jimmah to trade up for Emmitt ( moving up from 20 something to 17th because the Giants were going to pick him. The Giants ended up drafting Rodney Hampton and the rest is, well, " historeeee "
 
jterrell;1873961 said:
Try google or better yet the numerous books written on the early 90's Cowboys.

It is rather embarrassing to use Roger's nickname and attach it to such clearly ill-informed opinions.

We fell apart because Larry Lacewell took over personnel and scouting. That is certainly true but Jimmy was never a 1 man front office, same as BP wasn't. The Cowboys personnel guy originally was Bob Ackles and he was plenty good at his job.

It is also much harder to draft at 30ish in each round than it is with a ton of very high draft picks.

Probably the worst GM Jerry move was trading for Joey Galloway in an attempt to stretch out this run. Had we had yearly paring down like what NE does we could have lasted as a dynasty for a while longer but ultimately when Troy was gone we needed a new QB and had no idea how to get one.

Jerry was far to loyal to guys in their 30s like Charles Haley, Troy Aikman, Emmitt Smith et al. Those guys all hurt us in cap cash and in performance at the end of their careers or as their cash sat on the books past their playing days.

I disagree. I think the worst GM move Jerry did was not getting rid of Lacewell after the 1995 draft. Even with signing a bust like Galloway, a great head of personnel and scouting can overcome these dopey moves in one or two drafts. Stepret Williams??????? Remember "Corey Fleming caught a pass!!!!! Corey Fleming caught a pass!!!!!" C'mon!!!! Those were Lacewell guys.
 

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