Garrett as a lameduck

[ConstantReboot]

I stand by the coach, and don't buy into your argument, either, fwiw. I believe there's zero chance any coach ever helps the team by making a habit of defying Jones to do 'what's right.' What he has to do is convince Jerry Jones *he's* right and Jerry's other information is wrong. And then he needs to be sure he's right about it. Nobody's ever going to last in Dallas any other way, and it would be foolish, and counterproductive, to try.

That said, I still like the coach, he doesn't suck, you're wrong, and if people don't like that, well, then people don't like it. Fans are silly sometimes.

I agree he has to convince Jones that he's right in a professional manner. However, what I wanted to emphasize that Garrett does have some power to actually say to Jerry that his methods are wrong and its hurting the team. He doesn't do that and he lets Jones dictate the overall culture of the team, not him.

Garrett is not as hamstrung as what the other poster who's mad at me was trying to point out. Garrett just needs to stand up for himself. Have some balls and the players and fans will respect him for that if he doesn't like how things are being managed. He has a lot of influence over the entire team. If he bucks the system and does it his way against Jerry's wishes, than good for him and I'll respect him for that. But no he doesn't do anything like that. He lets Jerry dictate how this team is run. He is nothing more than a lap dog and serves his master well.

Thats my beef with Garrett. People say his being held back by Jerry. I don't think so. He just doesn't courage to stand up to what he believes is right and let Jerry dictate things. Thus I do not think Garrett is the right coach for this team.

 

[Alexander]

What does not wanting to punch the clock even mean?

There's an ESPN article where the hiccup was supposedly over job title.

It was just a weird situation. I don't remember reeves having already started to attend meetings.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3884953

Yes, but there were allusions to the number of hours Reeves would be putting in. Some said Jones stuck a clause in the contract about the time clock, but I do not think that was substantiated.

Hours was sticking point for Reeves, Cowboys11:53 PM CST on Thursday, February 5, 2009
By CALVIN WATKINS / The Dallas Morning News

Dan Reeves said he objected to having a clause put in his contract about the amount of hours he was
to work at Valley Ranch. Thus, his employment with the Cowboys was short-lived.

Cowboys owner and general manager Jerry Jones and Reeves agreed in principle to a multi-year
deal that was supposed to start Monday, but the former Cowboys assistant coach and player did not
know about the clause.

"Oh, definitely, big-time," Reeves said when asked if he was surprised by the clause. "For someone to
question how I've done [my time] for a lot of years, I've never been questioned. Plus, as a coach,
how can you verify that? Nobody punches a clock."

When Reeves said he couldn't sign such a contract, he and Jones declined to work together. Each
expressed respect, a fondness for one another and a desire to work together in the future if an
opportunity arises.

Jones said he and Reeves were on the same page about commitment hours-wise, but the Cowboys owner
wanted it in writing. "You don't work 23 years in this business whatsoever with some kind of work ethic,"
Reeves said. "To me, why would you want it in there? A contract should be like a handshake anyway."

Reeves said he was going to work with all aspects of the organization – specifically with Jones,
Phillips and the offensive coaches. Reeves started work Monday, attended meetings and was in the
process of looking at the passing game. "It didn't work out," Jones said. "It's a sticking point for both
of us and we both regret it, but it just didn't work out."

 

[Idgit]

I agree he has to convince Jones that he's right in a professional manner. However, what I wanted to emphasize that Garrett does have some power to actually say to Jerry that his methods are wrong and its hurting the team. He doesn't do that and he lets Jones dictate the overall culture of the team, not him.

Garrett is not as hamstrung as what the other poster who's mad at me was trying to point out. Garrett just needs to stand up for himself. Have some balls and the players and fans will respect him for that if he doesn't like how things are being managed. He has a lot of influence over the entire team. If he bucks the system and does it his way against Jerry's wishes, than good for him and I'll respect him for that. But no he doesn't do anything like that. He lets Jerry dictate how this team is run. He is nothing more than a lap dog and serves his master well.

Thats my beef with Garrett. People say his being held back by Jerry. I don't think so. He just doesn't courage to stand up to what he believes is right and let Jerry dictate things. Thus I do not think Garrett is the right coach for this team.

That's reasonable. We don't have to agree on whether he stands up enough or not. I wouldn't like him either if I read things the same way you are.

 

[visionary]

I agree he has to convince Jones that he's right in a professional manner. However, what I wanted to emphasize that Garrett does have some power to actually say to Jerry that his methods are wrong and its hurting the team. He doesn't do that and he lets Jones dictate the overall culture of the team, not him.

Garrett is not as hamstrung as what the other poster who's mad at me was trying to point out. Garrett just needs to stand up for himself. Have some balls and the players and fans will respect him for that if he doesn't like how things are being managed. He has a lot of influence over the entire team. If he bucks the system and does it his way against Jerry's wishes, than good for him and I'll respect him for that. But no he doesn't do anything like that. He lets Jerry dictate how this team is run. He is nothing more than a lap dog and serves his master well.

Thats my beef with Garrett. People say his being held back by Jerry. I don't think so. He just doesn't courage to stand up to what he believes is right and let Jerry dictate things. Thus I do not think Garrett is the right coach for this team.

absolutely
jerry is a football idiot and the main problem with the organization but, jason is either an incompetent HC or a spineless one

neither is someone i want as HC of the team i root for

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

What makes you right and that other poster wrong?

He says Garrett sucks and you tell him he is wrong and fans are silly.......................maybe that is your personal opinion, but that doesn't make you right and him wrong.

And for the record he does suck, so I guess its 2 to 1 right now.

the question wasn't about being right about garrett as a coach (good or bad). I have stated many times that garrett is not good but not as bad as some make out to be. the argument is over the suggested asinine/childish approach of defying Jones. What the heck does that mean? does garrett go and sign his own players? or draft who he wants? if Jones wants to sign X player and garrett says no, and jones does it anyway....what should garrett do? not play him? so he should defy jerry by telling the other 51 players I don't care about you. I want to defy Jerry so I am not going to go against him. yep, that's so helpful in getting the team buy in and getting the team focused...awesome suggestion. the suggestion is so freaking asinine and idiotic that I can't even describe. ConstatReboot suggestion is to tell Garrett grow balls and stand up to Jerry or get out!!! seriously...that's a suggestion!!!! . are we back in highschool?!! does anyone in the corporate world act this way? Constant reboot is either very young or works in a hamburger joint flipping burgers, getting into arguments with his boss, getting fired and going to the next joint and is proud he stood up to his boss!!!

lets talk merits, not argue over defiance and he sucks because he doesn't defy jerry.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

LMAO your not standing by the coach? Get real. You've been his #1 stalwart defender in this forum. I just stating the flaws in your argument that Garrett has a choice and you go on bickering with the name calling about him. Dude, seriously....Garrett does suck. If you don't like that people think that way thats your problem, not theirs.

where do I stand by the coach? in many responses on this thread I have said garrett is not all that. and he has room to grow. but I disagreed on blaming garrett for wade's failures. that's my opinion. and I blame jerry for having been the biggest contributor to this mess (undeniable truth). your point is that if garrett doesn't defy jerry, then he should go. yep, you must be 14 trying to impress a girl.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

He has said all the politically correct things about the running game, but when it has come down to it, he has proven over and over that he does not trust the running game.

I understood that when our line was awful, but there was no excuse late last season when there were few teams as productive per carry. With that in mind, I have little reason to believe anything he says about a commitment to the run game.

I think that's half the problem. he does tend to abandon his game plan too early, but I also think Romo has a hand in this. he walks up to the line and sees 8 people, he switches to a pass not trusting the running game. it was evident in the GB game, even GB defensive players commented that they couldn't stop the run game with 8 and 9 man fronts and surprised to see they went to passing game.

 

[visionary]

where do I stand by the coach? in many responses on this thread I have said garrett is not all that. and he has room to grow. but I disagreed on blaming garrett for wade's failures. that's my opinion. and I blame jerry for having been the biggest contributor to this mess (undeniable truth). your point is that if garrett doesn't defy jerry, then he should go. yep, you must be 14 trying to impress a girl.

so when wade was putting together 11-5 and 13-3 seasons under jerry and with garrett undermining him, wade was at fault

now that garrett is the HC under jerry putting together 8-8 after 8-8 season, it is jerry's fault and jason has "room to grow"

gotcha

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I didn't say he should defy anyone including Jerry. But if he really wants to get things done his way he will most certainly have to defy Jones and just do whats right.

Who cares if Jason gets fired. He's on the verge of getting fired anyways so your point is moot. Yes, Jason does not have balls. He is nothing more than Jerry's lap dog. He also has a choice to right this ship. It may get him fired so be it. He sucks as a coach anyways. So he should have nothing to lose.

My suggestions aren't idiotic. Standing by a coach who is mediocre and preaching like his the greatest thing since slice bread is idiotic. Something needs to be done drastically. But Jason has no balls to make any type of change his wants. Frankly, I don't think he knows how.

As for me knowing how business works you can lay off the personal stuff. I run a successful business myself so I know exactly how it works.

how do you know he is on the verge of getting fired? do you think Garrett thinks that way? and if he is then he should be fired. He should do what he believes is right and if its not, then so be it. fail at it. get fired. he can't worry about his job and do things to save his job and make him look good.

and tell me what defiance means? what can he defy? not accept the coaches jerry hires? not accept the players he signs? go yell at jerry? create a rift between coach, GM and players? that's helpful in your mind? lets have a war between GM and Coach. when has that worked? and who cares if Jason gets fired? Jason Garrett.

I am not standing by the coach. I am stating the approach you suggest doesn't make sense. and show me where I preached he is the greatest thing since slice bread. there is plenty of evidence that I have said garrett is not all that. garrett needs to grow. and garrett is not there yet. and you and this balls thing...what's your fascination with balls. This is not WWF you know.

and if you ran a successful business, then you should know, that's not how it works, which makes me think you are just making stuff up.

by the way are you Lee Blaire by any chance?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

so when wade was putting together 11-5 and 13-3 seasons under jerry and with garrett undermining him, wade was at fault

now that garrett is the HC under jerry putting together 8-8 after 8-8 season, it is jerry's fault and jason has "room to grow"

gotcha

garrett under mining him? really. that's your idea!!! 13-3 and 11-5 was more parcells than Wade. We had some of the worst drafts in our history under wade. including defensive players picked. why because Wade didn't have the balls to stand up to jerry (according to constant reboot that's what it takes) and jerry ran rough shot over him. history of wade says, he starts strong, and fades quickly. in Denver, in Buffalo and in Dallas. he didn't need garrett undermining him. he did it to himself. unless you think Wade's failures in other places is somehow Garrett's fault.

and for the record I didn't say it was jerry's fault under garrett only. its jerry's fault all along. he doesn't allow his coaches to run the team the way it needs to be. he ran Parcells out of town and he screwed up this team since Johnson left. six coaches. same results. my argument is that its not all garrett. its a lot of jerry.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

absolutely
jerry is a football idiot and the main problem with the organization but, jason is either an incompetent HC or a spineless one

neither is someone i want as HC of the team i root for

so I assume you think Parcells was spineless too?

 

[visionary]

garrett under mining him? really. that's your idea!!! 13-3 and 11-5 was more parcells than Wade. We had some of the worst drafts in our history under wade. including defensive players picked. why because Wade didn't have the balls to stand up to jerry (according to constant reboot that's what it takes) and jerry ran rough shot over him. history of wade says, he starts strong, and fades quickly. in Denver, in Buffalo and in Dallas. he didn't need garrett undermining him. he did it to himself. unless you think Wade's failures in other places is somehow Garrett's fault.

and for the record I didn't say it was jerry's fault under garrett only. its jerry's fault all along. he doesn't allow his coaches to run the team the way it needs to be. he ran Parcells out of town and he screwed up this team since Johnson left. six coaches. same results. my argument is that its not all garrett. its a lot of jerry.

once again, all the blame goes to jerry and wade
teflon garrett goes scott free

 

[visionary]

so I assume you think Parcells was spineless too?

lol, thanx for playing

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

once again, all the blame goes to jerry and wade
teflon garrett goes scott free

how do you come up with that? jerry has a fault. during wade era, it was wade and jerry. during garrett era its garrett and jerry. so don't make up stuff....

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

lol, thanx for playing

I asked a simple question, right?

 

[ConstantReboot]

the question wasn't about being right about garrett as a coach (good or bad). I have stated many times that garrett is not good but not as bad as some make out to be. the argument is over the suggested asinine/childish approach of defying Jones. What the heck does that mean? does garrett go and sign his own players? or draft who he wants? if Jones wants to sign X player and garrett says no, and jones does it anyway....what should garrett do? not play him? so he should defy jerry by telling the other 51 players I don't care about you. I want to defy Jerry so I am not going to go against him. yep, that's so helpful in getting the team buy in and getting the team focused...awesome suggestion. the suggestion is so freaking asinine and idiotic that I can't even describe. ConstatReboot suggestion is to tell Garrett grow balls and stand up to Jerry or get out!!! seriously...that's a suggestion!!!! . are we back in highschool?!! does anyone in the corporate world act this way? Constant reboot is either very young or works in a hamburger joint flipping burgers, getting into arguments with his boss, getting fired and going to the next joint and is proud he stood up to his boss!!!

lets talk merits, not argue over defiance and he sucks because he doesn't defy jerry.

Should I be more politically correct and say that Garrett needs to be more courageous and brave when he has a disagreement with Jerry? Come on. Were talking about football not some Avon convention.

I stood up to my boss. Thus I never had one for more than 15 years and I'm glad that I did. But thats another story.

As for Garrett, all I see from your postings is that its never Garrett's fault. Its all Jerry or even Wade's fault. How could it be Wade's fault when he hasn't been coaching the Cowboys for more than 3 years now. Then you mentioned that Jerry has a tight grip on Garrett and he can't do a damn thing about it because he has Jerry to contend with.

Wade is not at fault for all whats going wrong with the Cowboys. If you don't want to believe it thats okay with me.

Jerry is a complete bozo who has no brains. But that doesn't mean Garrett's hands are tied because of Jerry. His the coach. He has a lot more influence on Jerry than even Wade has had in 3 years. He had 3 chances to make the playoffs in the 3 years his been here. Time is running out and Garrett is running out of excuses.

 

[visionary]

how do you come up with that? jerry has a fault. during wade era, it was wade and jerry. during garrett era its garrett and jerry. so don't make up stuff....

here is your post:

"garrett under mining him? really. that's your idea!!! 13-3 and 11-5 was more parcells than Wade. We had some of the worst drafts in our history under wade. including defensive players picked. why because Wade didn't have the balls to stand up to jerry (according to constant reboot that's what it takes) and jerry ran rough shot over him. history of wade says, he starts strong, and fades quickly. in Denver, in Buffalo and in Dallas. he didn't need garrett undermining him. he did it to himself. unless you think Wade's failures in other places is somehow Garrett's fault.
and for the record I didn't say it was jerry's fault under garrett only. its jerry's fault all along. he doesn't allow his coaches to run the team the way it needs to be. he ran Parcells out of town and he screwed up this team since Johnson left. six coaches. same results. my argument is that its not all garrett. its a lot of jerry. "

i see a lot of "failures" in a coach that went 11-5 and 13-3 and a lot of "room to grow" and no faults or failures in a coach that has gone 8-8 x 3

in the first para it is all wade at fault
in the second it is all jerry

maybe i am mistaken

 

[ConstantReboot]

how do you come up with that? jerry has a fault. during wade era, it was wade and jerry. during garrett era its garrett and jerry. so don't make up stuff....

If anything it was Wade who had his has tied with Jerry. Jerry a few times mentioned in the media that its Garrett thats going to be the future coach of the Cowboys. Not Wade. Garrett has been given every opportunity by Jerry to succeed much more than Wade. Its time to call it as it is. Garrett is just not good of a coach and we should stop pampering him.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Should I be more politically correct and say that Garrett needs to be more courageous and brave when he has a disagreement with Jerry? Come on. Were talking about football not some Avon convention.

I stood up to my boss. Thus I never had one for more than 15 years and I'm glad that I did. But thats another story.

As for Garrett, all I see from your postings is that its never Garrett's fault. Its all Jerry or even Wade's fault. How could it be Wade's fault when he hasn't been coaching the Cowboys for more than 3 years now. Then you mentioned that Jerry has a tight grip on Garrett and he can't do a damn thing about it because he has Jerry to contend with.

Wade is not at fault for all whats going wrong with the Cowboys. If you don't want to believe it thats okay with me.

Jerry is a complete bozo who has no brains. But that doesn't mean Garrett's hands are tied because of Jerry. His the coach. He has a lot more influence on Jerry than even Wade has had in 3 years. He had 3 chances to make the playoffs in the 3 years his been here. Time is running out and Garrett is running out of excuses.

ok, what do you mean defy? courageous, what does that mean? you don't think they talk? or garrett express his concerns? or thoughts? or ideas? you are asking something without providing anything concrete you are looking to see. does Garrett p!ss his pants when jerry talks?

and I have never said its not garrett's fault. the posts are there to see. I disagree (and that's my opinion) that garrett didn't undermine wade (that's stupid to begin with) and wade had fault in his own failure. also I don't think its all garrett's fault and jerry has a hand in this. show me I have said anything otherwise!?

and what I said, was Jerry meddles with ALL his coaches and that's the problem and garrett is along the line of the past 5 coaches since Johnson. that's jerry. Parcells couldn't take it and he left too. to deny that, is lying to yourself.

and you think wade was a great coach? right? that's what you just said...wade is not at fault for what happened during wade's coaching the cowboys?

and garrett's hands aren;t fully tied. but he is limited in things he can do. no denying that. so were 5 other coaches. and yes, he has had 3 chances to make the playoffs. he has missed and yes, time is running out.

and my point is that time will run out. garrett will get fired (or not renewed in this case) and the next coach comes in and we go through the same cycle. who do we blame then?

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

here is your post:

"garrett under mining him? really. that's your idea!!! 13-3 and 11-5 was more parcells than Wade. We had some of the worst drafts in our history under wade. including defensive players picked. why because Wade didn't have the balls to stand up to jerry (according to constant reboot that's what it takes) and jerry ran rough shot over him. history of wade says, he starts strong, and fades quickly. in Denver, in Buffalo and in Dallas. he didn't need garrett undermining him. he did it to himself. unless you think Wade's failures in other places is somehow Garrett's fault.
and for the record I didn't say it was jerry's fault under garrett only. its jerry's fault all along. he doesn't allow his coaches to run the team the way it needs to be. he ran Parcells out of town and he screwed up this team since Johnson left. six coaches. same results. my argument is that its not all garrett. its a lot of jerry. "

i see a lot of "failures" in a coach that went 11-5 and 13-3 and a lot of "room to grow" and no faults or failures in a coach that has gone 8-8 x 3

in the first para it is all wade at fault
in the second it is all jerry

maybe i am mistaken

yes. wade was a failure. let me repeat. WADE was a FAILURE.

Switzer went to NFC championship and won a superbowl. is Switzer a great coach? or was it because of what Johnson left behind?

wade inherited a team, that was turned over by Parcells, found the QB of the future, disciplined team that had talent and depth. a group of players having gone to playoffs and ready for the next step. they went 13-3 and lost in the playoffs. a team that had the #1 seed and home field advantage through out the playoffs, and a chance at superbowl. Wade screwed it up. and instead of taking the next step like the ravens, or SF, or seattle, or Denver, the team went the other way. instead of 13-3 and loss in the playoffs to a win in the playoffs and superbowl, they went south quickly and in 4 years ended up 1-7. so yes Wade screwed this team. we did have some of the worst drafts while he was the head coach. compare it to when parcells was the head coach, and when Garrett has been the head coach and when campo was the head coach. and yes, history has proven wade sucks. multiple times. let me repeat. WADE WAS A FAILURE. he failed to push a young, talented playoff experienced team into the superbowl and while he was here, we lost a lot of talent.

and a coach that went 8-8 three times in a row does have room to grow, needs to improve. needs to get better. or do you think a coach that's 8-8 doesn't need that?

so let me help you, since it seems you have comprehension problems, I think what you are trying to say is this is as good as garrett gets and he won't grow. so lets move on. a valid argument. and your opinion.

and to your last point. the common thread all along is Jerry. because he meddles with all his coaches. every coach has to also carry some blame. some more than others. Parcells was the best in being able to right Jerry as much as possible (that's one out of 6 coaches). and even parcells failed at the end. and he is a HOF coach, with undeniable credintials.

and to follow your line of reasoning...if you are blaming everything on garrett, then you should also blame wade for his failures....

but if you are agreeing that jerry has a hand in it and has to shoulder the blame, then its the same for garrett and wade? but you can't say, everything is garrett's fault and not jerry. but during wade era it was jerry at fault and not wade!!!!