Garrett as a lameduck

[Idgit]

To further what @Hoofbite said:

John Harbaugh started coaching in 1984 and spent 9 years with the Eagles.
Mike Tomlin started coaching in 1995 and spent 7 years in the NFL with various teams.

All of which, while true, is only an argument for tenure making coaches better. I'm not sure it does. Harbaugh's a really good coach, though it might just be that he's better than Garrett--if he is--because he's a better coach. I think the argument that Jason Garrett lacks experience to be a head coach in this league is old at this point, 3 and a half years into his head coaching career, and was never very good to begin with. They guy had success at each level of his coaching career as measured by the interest levels of NFL teams (Cowboys included) and came up the ladder fast by virtue of his hard work, intelligence, 15 year career in the league at the most cerebral position on the field, and his coaching/scouting pedigree. It's really not that unusual, and it's really not been an issue for him in Dallas. The only issue has been he coaches for an owner who yanks assistants around and says dumb things in the press occasionally. Other than that, JG had to learn how to manage games properly early on, and he has the same sorts of mistakes that almost every other HC of his tenure makes across the league.

We blow it up in Dallas because it's an easy way to belittle the HC by pretending he's a trainee.

 

[CyberB0b]

They guy had success at each level of his coaching career as measured by the interest levels of NFL teams (Cowboys included) and came up the ladder fast by virtue of his hard work, intelligence, 15 year career in the league at the most cerebral position on the field, and his coaching/scouting pedigree. It's really not that unusual, and it's really not been an issue for him in Dallas.

It is VERY unusual. I looked at the resumes are nearly every NFL head coach. Nearly all of them had 10+ years of coaching experience at various levels. I don't count holding a clipboard for Troy Aikman as coaching experience, but you like to for some reason. To say he had success at every level is kind of ridiculous.

In 2005, as the QB coach, his QB was Gus Ferotte, who put up a 72 QB Rating that year. In 2006, he had Joey Harrington and Daunte Culpepper, putting up a QB rating of around 70. Hardly what I would call a success. Granted, there isn't a huge body of work there, but that is the point.

In 2007, he had a very productive year as the OC, and then the production declined sharply. He proved to be a slightly above average NFL OC. He may prove himself later down the line as a great HC, but he wasn't ready for the challenge and still isn't now.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Harbaugh started coaching before Jason took a snap in the NFL.

Tomlin had multiple years of experience before getting a HC job.

Both worked their way up from the college ranks.

Really, no comparison.

John Harbaugh, was a special teams coach, about same age as garrett. I am not saying garrett is all that, but then again, strong organizations in each case. how about Shanahan? a proven coach. failed in Washington. How about Parcells, a proven coach failed in Dallas. if the strong organization is not around you, then you have no chance no matter who you are. if there is a strong organization in place, then its the coach. singletary was an awful coach. same group of players in SF and Jim Harbaugh succeeded. you need stability. bottom line. Jason has done some bad things. he has also done some good things. its just that in between there is jerry.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

All of which, while true, is only an argument for tenure making coaches better. I'm not sure it does. Harbaugh's a really good coach, though it might just be that he's better than Garrett--if he is--because he's a better coach. I think the argument that Jason Garrett lacks experience to be a head coach in this league is old at this point, 3 and a half years into his head coaching career, and was never very good to begin with. They guy had success at each level of his coaching career as measured by the interest levels of NFL teams (Cowboys included) and came up the ladder fast by virtue of his hard work, intelligence, 15 year career in the league at the most cerebral position on the field, and his coaching/scouting pedigree. It's really not that unusual, and it's really not been an issue for him in Dallas. The only issue has been he coaches for an owner who yanks assistants around and says dumb things in the press occasionally. Other than that, JG had to learn how to manage games properly early on, and he has the same sorts of mistakes that almost every other HC of his tenure makes across the league.

We blow it up in Dallas because it's an easy way to belittle the HC by pretending he's a trainee.

all head coaches make mistakes. I don't care who they are. but when you have a solid organization, then it doesn't matter. you live and learn and move forward. when you are the cowboys, Commanders, Cleveland, Oakland, Detroit, they tend to linger on and pile on top of one another.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

It is VERY unusual. I looked at the resumes are nearly every NFL head coach. Nearly all of them had 10+ years of coaching experience at various levels. I don't count holding a clipboard for Troy Aikman as coaching experience, but you like to for some reason. To say he had success at every level is kind of ridiculous.

In 2005, as the QB coach, his QB was Gus Ferotte, who put up a 72 QB Rating that year. In 2006, he had Joey Harrington and Daunte Culpepper, putting up a QB rating of around 70. Hardly what I would call a success. Granted, there isn't a huge body of work there, but that is the point.

In 2007, he had a very productive year as the OC, and then the production declined sharply. He proved to be a slightly above average NFL OC. He may prove himself later down the line as a great HC, but he wasn't ready for the challenge and still isn't now.

but then again, tenure doesn't guarantee success. only a handful of them find success. and most come from strong organizations.

 

[CyberB0b]

but then again, tenure doesn't guarantee success. only a handful of them find success. and most come from strong organizations.

Yes, but I would bet $100 there is has been no Super Bowl winning coach in the last 15 years (Maybe in the history of the NFL?) without at least a decade of coaching experience under his belt.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Yes, but I would bet $100 there is has been no Super Bowl winning coach in the last 15 years (Maybe in the history of the NFL?) without at least a decade of coaching experience under his belt.

John Gruden?

between Miami and Cowboys, garrett has 10 years of coaching experience. does it mean his odds of winning the superbowl goes up?

 

[Beast_from_East]

wade inherited a team that was disciplined coming from parcells...... and what did those two division titles get us? do you equate that to success? is that your measuring stick?

Got us a dam playoff win..............first one in 17 seasons...............compared to not even making the playoffs now days, I would say that was pretty successful.


Winning playoff game >>>>>>>>>>> Watching playoffs from the couch

 

[Beast_from_East]

Why is it this perception gets repeated here, despite all evidence to the contrary? I can't even count any more how many times Jason blames himself, or the ways in which he'll honestly answer a question about how a single in-game decision was made while staunchly defending his players and coaches overall. Is it just anti-intellectualism that has people repeating the opposite for no good reason at all?

It's the same guy who's said he makes several play calls 'he'd like to have back' in just about every game who comes out and says 'if Tony had it to do over again, he'd probably make a different decision there." What's up with fans that we expect every call to be right in every circumstance and we won't allow a coach or player to recognize a mistake while still believing in the overall direction of the team? This is the stuff that's immediately ignored when I team is winning big games, and it's magnified beyond all importance after losses. Meanwhile, we're still a bottom-5 team, three years running, at one of the two most important factors when it comes to winning football games. And that's not happening because a head coach acknowledges a mistake or two in a post-game press conference.

Even some members of the media were tweeting that Garrett threw Romo and Bill under the bus after the Green Bay game.

First thing Garrett said was "Bill called the play and Romo changed it".

The reasonable answer should have been "It doesn't matter who called the play or who changed it, I am the head coach and I am the one responsible regardless"


So it is not just "dumb posters" who are saying this, members of the media were saying it also.

 

[ConstantReboot]

My support for JG has fallen considerably but IMO you are selling him a little short this morning. The situation isn't that extreme. His voice carries some weight with Jerry.

It does carry some weight. Which I don't understand why a lot of the blame goes towards Jerry for not allowing him some leeway in terms of coaching. Jerry does allow him much more flexibility than other coaches in the past.

 

[CyberB0b]

John Gruden?

between Miami and Cowboys, garrett has 10 years of coaching experience. does it mean his odds of winning the superbowl goes up?

John Gruden has been coaching since 1986.

 

[ConstantReboot]

to your point, jerry has continued to meddle with Garrett. in the wrong way. not that its all imploding, he is given him the control. the question then should be is it too little too late? do we expect miracles specially that we haven't addressed the undelying issues. just think, in the past two years, Jerry fired the DC, brought in his guy, forced the defense to change scheme, pushed for room to have more say in game planning and play call management, forced Callahan onto garrett as OC, because in his mind, it was too much for garrett (instead of accepting the fact that our OL sucked).

and to your point, Garrett has become a puppet. its Jerry. not necessarily Garrett. Even the great parcells became a puppet at the end and he left because of it. he puts on a good face. taking one for the organization, but inside you can tell his boiling a bit. and I am with you. we all read and heard the stories about callhan being pushed on garrett and garrettt argued it. eventually he took over and that's when we saw the offense change. he put on a good face. made it as if its normal course of process, but we all know what happened. In some ways, I think Garrett is trying to teach Jerry. keep focused. don't let distractions get to you. dismiss all other Hollywood stuff and stay the course. stay focused and stay on football. but Jerry just does too much and its sometimes a losing battle, because it keeps coming at you.

I do think this might be garrett's last year. Jerry has set him up for a win win for himself. if he succeeds, he will claim he has learned, lets the organization do it, he is the GM and he works with the head coach, blah blah blah
if he fails, then he can say, I let him run the show, he failed, so he is let go.

either way, the fans will be happy. either we succeed. or garrett gets fired and there is renewed hope with a new coaching staff.

I think this is a very tough year for garrett. our defense should improve. how can you not. but there are also external factors. I think eagles are the class of the division and we play NFC west and that's tough. we may actually be a better team, but our record won't indicate it and that's all jerry needs.

Thus my beef with Garrett is that he lets Jerry run roughshod over him. His the coach and should stand up to being a coach - whether Jerry likes it our not. If Garrett has to tell Jerry to lay off and let him coach than the more I give him respect. Thats the only way to contain Jerry really. But Garrett doesn't do that. He does what he wants with the team. Can you blame alot on this on Jerry? Of course! But Garrett is in a position right now to right the ship. If he can only stand up to Jerry and tell him to back off then the more power to him. In fact, I want I really do wish Garrett can put Jerry in his place for once and tell it as it is. But Garrett is too nice of a guy and too diplomatic. Thus Jerry does as he pleases because he can get away with it.

 

[khiladi]

Got us a dam playoff win..............first one in 17 seasons...............compared to not even making the playoffs now days, I would say that was pretty successful.


Winning playoff game >>>>>>>>>>> Watching playoffs from the couch

Funny, everybody said it was Camp Cupcake back then and the inmates were running the asylum...

 

[khiladi]

Thus my beef with Garrett is that he lets Jerry run roughshod over him. His the coach and should stand up to being a coach - whether Jerry likes it our not. If Garrett has to tell Jerry to lay off and let him coach than the more I give him respect. Thats the only way to contain Jerry really. But Garrett doesn't do that. He does what he wants with the team. Can you blame alot on this on Jerry? Of course! But Garrett is in a position right now to right the ship. If he can only stand up to Jerry and tell him to back off then the more power to him. In fact, I want I really do wish Garrett can put Jerry in his place for once and tell it as it is. But Garrett is too nice of a guy and too diplomatic. Thus Jerry does as he pleases because he can get away with it.

Please, he can't do that because He knows the only reason why he still has a job is because of Jerry. Just as Jerry is loyal to players that need to be let go years prior, the same is the case for Garrett. He's looking for every excuse to keep him.

 

[khiladi]

John Harbaugh, was a special teams coach, about same age as garrett. I am not saying garrett is all that, but then again, strong organizations in each case. how about Shanahan? a proven coach. failed in Washington. How about Parcells, a proven coach failed in Dallas. if the strong organization is not around you, then you have no chance no matter who you are. if there is a strong organization in place, then its the coach. singletary was an awful coach. same group of players in SF and Jim Harbaugh succeeded. you need stability. bottom line. Jason has done some bad things. he has also done some good things. its just that in between there is jerry.

Neither Shanahan nor Parcells had a legitimate QB the time they were here . Parcell, when he got him, got to the playoffs. Shanny, when he got RG3 and got decent QB play got there. Garrett can't get there with Romo. And Wade got to the playoffs twice in four years in the same circumstances.

 

[khiladi]

to your point, jerry has continued to meddle with Garrett. in the wrong way. not that its all imploding, he is given him the control. the question then should be is it too little too late? do we expect miracles specially that we haven't addressed the undelying issues. just think, in the past two years, Jerry fired the DC, brought in his guy, forced the defense to change scheme, pushed for room to have more say in game planning and play call management, forced Callahan onto garrett as OC, because in his mind, it was too much for garrett (instead of accepting the fact that our OL sucked).

and to your point, Garrett has become a puppet. its Jerry. not necessarily Garrett. Even the great parcells became a puppet at the end and he left because of it. he puts on a good face. taking one for the organization, but inside you can tell his boiling a bit. and I am with you. we all read and heard the stories about callhan being pushed on garrett and garrettt argued it. eventually he took over and that's when we saw the offense change. he put on a good face. made it as if its normal course of process, but we all know what happened. In some ways, I think Garrett is trying to teach Jerry. keep focused. don't let distractions get to you. dismiss all other Hollywood stuff and stay the course. stay focused and stay on football. but Jerry just does too much and its sometimes a losing battle, because it keeps coming at you.

I do think this might be garrett's last year. Jerry has set him up for a win win for himself. if he succeeds, he will claim he has learned, lets the organization do it, he is the GM and he works with the head coach, blah blah blah
if he fails, then he can say, I let him run the show, he failed, so he is let go.

either way, the fans will be happy. either we succeed. or garrett gets fired and there is renewed hope with a new coaching staff.

I think this is a very tough year for garrett. our defense should improve. how can you not. but there are also external factors. I think eagles are the class of the division and we play NFC west and that's tough. we may actually be a better team, but our record won't indicate it and that's all jerry needs.

I thought Kiffen was tied to Garrett in Tampa. I guess Garrett was forced to hire his own brother. The last WR catch, oh yeah Jerry forced that on him. I guess Hudson Houck was also forced on Jason, though not only did he play under him, Garrett coached with him in Miami. I guess when Dan Reeves was suppose to come in to correct Garrett and his running game and blocking schemes, it was Jerry that said no, only for Jason to get his way with Callahan, only to be removed as play/caller for Limehan cause Jerry wants to interfere with Garrett again. I though Garrett was changing the culture of the Cowboys with RKG. Everyone was telling me Sean Le and other guys were example of Garrett moves to rid this roster of garbage. Before his latest failure, I was told Jason finally had cleaned up the dead weight on the roster.

Got to love how the story is always written for Garrett being hamstrung after he keeps failing.

 

[khiladi]

And this is just ridiculous. The *excuses* are in direct response to unending weak criticisms. Actual relevant criticisms hardly get debated because nobody disagrees. It's the made up drama and the hyperbolic over reactions that people object to.

Sorry, your not the standard by which a criticism becomes relevant on this forum.

 

[khiladi]

Jon Machota ‏@jonmachota 2m
Truth comes out. RT @tom_orsborn: Jerry: "Jason was really the offensive coordinator last year...He was really predominant in the red zone."

This pretty comical. If this is true, Jerry's trying to make his boy look better with changing stories. Jason was forever bashed cause he sucks in the red-zone. He was getting worse and worse. This last year, that was the one thing that actually improved when Cally was promoted. So now he's saying Garrett was predominant not just in play calling, but the one factor he really needed to improve on.

Got to live Jerry's story about how their training plan for Garrett showing improvement is working.

Yet, he keeps demoting him on the other hand and keeps telling us Jason couldn't let go and will be removed totally from the offense.

Man, it's worse then I thought with Jerry.

 

[khiladi]

My support for JG has fallen considerably but IMO you are selling him a little short this morning. The situation isn't that extreme. His voice carries some weight with Jerry.

So does Lacewell, Barry Switzer and Jim Garrett's..,

 

[Idgit]

Sorry, your not the standard by which a criticism becomes relevant on this forum.

Right. I'm just going off what's logical or whether or not an argument is valid or is directly refutable by measurable observable facts.

And, as I've said, there's plenty of reasonable criticism that can be directed at this team and this organization.