Garrett not a good coach?

[Trouty]

Honestly Josh. This club goes as far as the Defense takes it. This Defense could surprise...both ways. I have a good feeling going into the season.

Cheers, Boxer, I wholeheartedly agree, my brother.

 

[DFWJC]

Well even with "2 - 14 defenses" as you put it, if Garrett didn't cost those team at least two games a season we would have been 10 - 6 and in the playoffs three years in row.

If it really was 2 games, then yes, probably true.

 

[DFWJC]

Honestly Josh. This club goes as far as the Defense takes it. This Defense could surprise...both ways. I have a good feeling going into the season.

This!

 

[cml750]

If it really was 2 games, then yes, probably true.

One more game in each of those seasons would have had us in the playoffs. Don't forget we also lost win or go home games to division rivals in each of those years.

 

[Idgit]

If it really was 2 games, then yes, probably true.

That assumes we didn't win games we otherwise would have lost those seasons, which is obviously a bad assumption. People remember the close losses and blame the coach. They forget the close wins and credit the QB if you remind them.

Meanwhile, you look at the rosters and you don't see 10-6 talent. So why get mad you didn't get 10-6 results? Many of the people complaining the loudest about Garrett we're predicting worse before each season started, anyway.

I'll open the question up to everybody since Sydla apparently passed: how often have we seen a coach build, not inherit, a team capable of winning 12+ games in two out of three consecutive seasons and not have the HC be considered at least "good?" Much less have fans actually consider him a liability? Are there any examples out there?

 

[DFWJC]

That assumes we didn't win games we otherwise would have lost those seasons, which is obviously a bad assumption. People remember the close losses and blame the coach. They forget the close wins and credit the QB if you remind them.

Meanwhile, you look at the rosters and you don't see 10-6 talent. So why get mad you didn't get 10-6 results? Many of the people complaining the loudest about Garrett we're predicting worse before each season started, anyway.

I'll open the question up to everybody since Sydla apparently passed: how often have we seen a coach build, not inherit, a team capable of winning 12+ games in two out of three consecutive seasons and not have the HC be considered at least "good?" Much less have fans actually consider him a liability? Are there any examples out there?

Those 8-8 teams were not playoff teams. They were for sure one and done if they happened to get there.
One of those defenses literally ranked 32 out of 32 teams.
What was astounding, is that there some who would pin the blame on the offense anyway. Or maybe after 16 games, place it all on one game late in the season. Truly illogical. True, the o- line was pretty porous and the run game average (until mid 2013 or so) but the offense was why they WON 8, not why they lost 8.

 

[Sydla]

I'm not suggesting he is, I'm saying he is. The proof is everywhere for one to see if you choose to look. Idgit has covered the proof very well.

Great? That's insane.

He has one playoff win in 6 years. One. I'll repeat that. One playoff win. One. Just one. Only one. In 6 years.

If he's "great" than Dan Quinn must be a super coach since he has actually coached in a SB. And SB winning coaches like Belicheck and Carroll must be God coaches.

 

[Sydla]

You're fixating on the postseason, forgetting you need to win a lot of games to even get there in the first place.

Let me ask it this way: what other not-good coach has taken a team he built--not inherited-- to two or more 12+ win seasons in a three year span?

The postseason defines coaches. Anyone who denies that is just a fool. What good is it if you win 13 games three years in a row and then never make any noise in the playoffs? Even you admitted earlier Garrett has to start producing in the playoffs.

And stop with the "rebuild" stuff. He inherited Tony Romo. He's had a head start that some new coaches never got. Once you have the franchise QB, you have a jump on people truly starting from scratch. That's why Quinn had a running start in Atlanta. He inherited a franchise QB.

You want a real rebuild? Look at what Hue Jackson has to do in Cleveland. Or Shanahan in San Fran. Those are true rebuilds.

 

[Sydla]

And for the record, I've never said that it is impossible Garrett could end up being a great coach (I don't think the trend is very good but it's not impossible). I've said he's not done anything to date that would warrant effusive praise. He has to start winning postseason games now. 6 years is enough time, more than enough time, to put your stamp on a franchise. If he can't get real postseason success the next couple of seasons, I think his book is mostly written and it might be time to look for another head coach.

And postseason success isn't a SB win. But a championship game appearance would be a good place to start.

 

[Rockport]

Great? That's insane.

He has one playoff win in 6 years. One. I'll repeat that. One playoff win. One. Just one. Only one. In 6 years.

If he's "great" than Dan Quinn must be a super coach since he has actually coached in a SB. And SB winning coaches like Belicheck and Carroll must be God coaches.

Some chose to hate and go by playoff wins. So be it.

 

[Sydla]

Some chose to hate and go by playoff wins. So be it.

It's not hate, it's reality. Playoff success is what separates truly great coaches from those that aren't great. Do you think Bill Belicheck would be considered the greatest coach of all time if instead of winning all those AFC Titles and SBs, he just won a bunch of regular season games but then flamed out in the playoffs?

Because in the end, isn't that why they are even playing? To win postseasons games and maybe win a SB?

Is Marvin Lewis a great coach?

 

[Rockport]

It's not hate, it's reality. Playoff success is what separates truly great coaches from those that aren't great. Do you think Bill Belicheck would be considered the greatest coach of all time if instead of winning all those AFC Titles and SBs, he just won a bunch of regular season games but then flamed out in the playoffs?

Because in the end, isn't that why they are even playing? To win postseasons games and maybe win a SB?

Is Marvin Lewis a great coach?

Do you even realize what Garrett's done since taking over? Obviously not. Listen, I'm not wasting my time trying to convince a hater. You probably hated Romo too didn't you.

 

[Idgit]

The postseason defines coaches. Anyone who denies that is just a fool. What good is it if you win 13 games three years in a row and then never make any noise in the playoffs? Even you admitted earlier Garrett has to start producing in the playoffs.

And stop with the "rebuild" stuff. He inherited Tony Romo. He's had a head start that some new coaches never got. Once you have the franchise QB, you have a jump on people truly starting from scratch. That's why Quinn had a running start in Atlanta. He inherited a franchise QB.

You want a real rebuild? Look at what Hue Jackson has to do in Cleveland. Or Shanahan in San Fran. Those are true rebuilds.

Wins define coaches. Postseason wins separate the good ones from the great ones. If we were missing the postseason with playoff teams, or losing playoff games because of coaching you might have a better point, but that's not what's happened.

I'll note again how nice it is we've moved the goalposts on Garrett from saying he can't get over .500 to knocking him for not winning more playoff games.

No candidates for not-good coaches who have built teams that win 12+ games in two out of three seasons? I've found one I expect most would likely pile on, but it's a pretty short list.

 

[Sydla]

Do you even realize what Garrett's done since taking over? Obviously not. Listen, I'm not wasting my time trying to convince a hater. You probably hated Romo too didn't you.

I did not hate Romo. So swing and a miss there.

Yeah, I know what Garrett has done here. He has three 8-8 seasons, a 4-12 season, a 12 win season and a 13 win season. And just one playoff win in 6 seasons.

Hardly the resume of a "great" coach.

PS - It is interesting you bring up Romo. You obviously think he was very good, which I do. So how is it a "great" coach like Garrett only squeezed one playoff win out of Romo in 6 years?

 

[Sydla]

Wins define coaches. Postseason wins separate the good ones from the great ones. If we were missing the postseason with playoff teams, or losing playoff games because of coaching you might have a better point, but that's not what's happened.

I'll note again how nice it is we've moved the goalposts on Garrett from saying he can't get over .500 to knocking him for not winning more playoff games.

No candidates for not-good coaches who have built teams that win 12+ games in two out of three seasons? I've found one I expect most would likely pile on, but it's a pretty short list.

I never moved the goal posts. I've always been steadfast in that Garrett has to do better in the postseason to get any recognition from me.

Because in the end, that's all that matters - playoff success.

 

[Idgit]

I never moved the goal posts. I've always been steadfast in that Garrett has to do better in the postseason to get any recognition from me.

Because in the end, that's all that matters - playoff success.

You don't get playoff success without regular season success. As long as his team trends upward, you should recognize the trend.

Not every coach builds a 12+ win contender. It's ok to acknowledge that and still want postseason wins.

 

[Rockport]

I did not hate Romo. So swing and a miss there.

Yeah, I know what Garrett has done here. He has three 8-8 seasons, a 4-12 season, a 12 win season and a 13 win season. And just one playoff win in 6 seasons.

Hardly the resume of a "great" coach.

PS - It is interesting you bring up Romo. You obviously think he was very good, which I do. So how is it a "great" coach like Garrett only squeezed one playoff win out of Romo in 6 years?

Your question says it all.

 

[Sydla]

Your question says it all.

Your lack of an answer says it all. You are programmed to just assume that everything about the Cowboys is great.

 

[Sydla]

You don't get playoff success without regular season success. As long as his team trends upward, you should recognize the trend.

Not every coach builds a 12+ win contender. It's ok to acknowledge that and still want postseason wins.

Well Marvin Lewis has two 11 win seasons and a 12 win season. And little postseason success.

You think Lewis is a great coach? If Garrett decided tomorrow to retire, would you want Lewis here as head coach?

 

[Idgit]

Well Marvin Lewis has two 11 win seasons and a 12 win season. And little postseason success.

You think Lewis is a great coach? If Garrett decided tomorrow to retire, would you want Lewis here as head coach?

The question wasn't "great." The question was "good."

And Marvin's only had one 12+ win season ever in 14 seasons as a HC. But, yes, I think Marvin's a good coach.