Garrett: we don’t use those numbers during a game

[Hennessy_King]

Just wait till JG gets that HC job things will change, it's a process remember. (have a great Turkey day) ..................

You too fam.

 

[OmerV]

You go for 2. If you don't make it you still need to make a fg to win. Don't play for ties in pro football. How many times have we seen this mentality get this team beat.

You go for 2 when? On the last possession? Again, after kicking the FG in the 2nd to last possession, a 2 pt. conversion wouldn't have been needed on the last possession for the win. Seems doing it that way WAS going for the win.

If you are talking about going for 2 on the 2nd to the last possession, again, the history of that entire game indicated the odds of even getting the 4th and 7 conversion were almost non existent, so, the odds of even having a chance to go for 2 were almost non existent.

 

[Haimerej]

You just said they were something like 2-13 on 3rd down. The conditions were terrible. Why in the world would you think the odds are better that Cooper will rip off a big play in that situation than giving yourself two chances to score a TD?

Ironically, because of the conditions. Players slip and Coop is a good YAC guy. I'm not saying it was a certainty, just saying I had no faith they would've converted that 4th and 7.

 

[Hennessy_King]

You had 2 opportunities and the first resulted in getting at least some points. Sure, you still need another TD, but at least that would win instead of tie.

The points you "got" had literally zero difference in the outcome of the game. The only reason you kick a fg there is to tell Jerry. See if maher goes 4 for 4 you only need a fg to win. It's shameful tbh.

 

[ChuckA1]

IMHO, at 4th down with two yards to go for a 1st, deep in the red zone, you go for the 1st. If you fail, NE is backed up deep. To do anything else tells your team you don't believe in them. The coaching was WAY too conservative.

 

[Hennessy_King]

You go for 2 when? On the last possession? Again, after kicking the FG in the 2nd to last possession, a 2 pt. conversion wouldn't have been needed on the last possession for the win. Seems doing it that way WAS going for the win.

If you are talking about going for 2 on the 2nd to the last possession, again, the history of that entire game indicated the odds of even getting the 4th and 7 conversion were almost non existent, so, the odds of even having a chance to go for 2 were almost non existent.

It's not going for the win. You needed to score a td regardless. The way the game was going who actually thought they were going to drive the length of the field and win. Not this guy.

 

[HungryLion]

Do you understand that you used the barometer of, "we lost the game," and I used your barometer to show it's fallacy? If you're now switching to, "probability," then you've moved the goal posts. Either way, I think probability is meaningless when you actually have an outcome.

Do you understand that my response was to your comment where you said “it was the right call” while providing zero evidence for it being the right call? So you actually provided a claim as being a fact without having any factual reason to say it as such.

Seriously, you presented it as the right call but have nothing to back it up as being the right call and obviously in the end it didn’t work.

And the NUMBERS say it was the wrong call because it actually decreased the teams chance of winning.


Considering the premise of the thread is the coach not using probability to make decisions, bringing up probability during the discussion kind of makes sense doesn’t it. Rather than your gut feeling about it being the right call. When it didn’t do jack squat to help the team win.

 

[Sydla]

You had 2 opportunities and the first resulted in getting at least some points. Sure, you still need another TD, but at least that would win instead of tie.

What the Cowboys did was only give themselves one opportunity to score a TD. The FG is meaningless because you still need a TD.

The TD is the only score that matters when you are down 7 with 6 minutes to go. Given the conditions, how ineffective your offense has been all game, kicking a FG there thinking that with one drive left you will finally score that TD is just bad coaching.

It's a very simple concept. You had two opportunities/drives to score the needed TD. The Cowboys opted to throw one of those opportunities away to kick a meaningless FG that MIGHT get you a win if you can score a TD later. The problem is that in doing that, you gave yourself little wiggle room to score that TD.

It's just chickenspit coaching right there and the data confirms it. Garrett screwed up.

 

[OmerV]

It's not going for the win. You needed to score a td regardless. The way the game was going who actually thought they were going to drive the length of the field and win. Not this guy.

And if you fail on the 4th and 7 as the odds strongly indicate you will, then how does that help you win?

Look, I get that there is an argument for your position on this, but I do not agree it is the only argument. Not by a long shot. I was convinced gong for it on 4th and 7 would have killed the chances at that point, whereas the FG at least allowed an outside chance.

 

[HungryLion]

And if you fail on the 4th and 7 as the odds strongly indicate you will, then how does that help you win?

Look, I get that there is an argument for your position on this, but I do not agree it is the only argument. Not by a long shot. I was convinced gong for it on 4th and 7 would have killed the chances at that point, whereas the FG at least allowed an outside chance.

It helps you because of field position. The patriots get the ball on the 11. Or even worse if the Cowboys hypothetically gain 6 yards but fail to get the full 7.

after the field goal and ensuing kickoff they likely have the ball on the 25. That’s at least 14 yards of field position against a tough defense and still needing a touchdown.

 

[Hennessy_King]

And if you fail on the 4th and 7 as the odds strongly indicate you will, then how does that help you win?

Look, I get that there is an argument for your position on this, but I do not agree it is the only argument. Not by a long shot. I was convinced gong for it on 4th and 7 would have killed the chances at that point, whereas the FG at least allowed an outside chance.

They start a drive at their own 10 not their own 38. And gives us better starting field position on the next have to score a td drive. Not the 8 yard line. There was no benefit of kicking the fg there except to cover the spread.

 

[Stash]

Your faith in the offense is obviously greater than mine.

What I'd dint have faith in was that same offense that could do virtually nothing all day getting down the field to get a touchdown again. That was the one time they were able to do it all day. Apparently, I was alone in realizing that because the coaching sure didn't.

 

[Haimerej]

It's weird.

He cites other events from the game like our bad 3rd down conversion rate to justify his point but then turns around and says the odds were better that Cooper could rip off a big play despite the fact that game showed we had little big play ability given the NE defense, the conditions, etc.

No, I said, "I'm more comfortable believing." Said nothing about odds. Don't care for the odds.

 

[Hennessy_King]

It helps you because of field position. The patriots get the ball on the 11. Or even worse if the Cowboys hypothetically gain 6 yards but fail to get the full 7.

after the field goal and ensuing kickoff they likely have the ball on the 25. That’s at least 14 yards of field position against a tough defense and still needing a touchdown.

We actually kicked short I think and they ran it out to like the 38 right? Nvm I'm wrong it was the 25

 

[HungryLion]

They start a drive at their own 10 not their own 38. And gives us better starting field position on the next have to score a td drive. Not the 8 yard line. There was no benefit of kicking the fg there except to cover the spread.

Maybe Garret has been point fixing since he knows
His sorry behind is about to get fired.

that’s the most likely explanation. Other than stupidity or arrogance

 

[HungryLion]

We actually kicked short I think and they ran it out to like the 38 right?

If that’s the case it’s even worse!

 

[Sydla]

No, I said, "I'm more comfortable believing." Said nothing about odds. Don't care for the odds.

By saying you feel more comfortable you are, in fact, saying you believe the odds/chances are better Cooper can rip off a big play in a game where we had shown little ability to make a big play.

 

[Aviano90]

They start a drive at their own 10 not their own 38. And gives us better starting field position on the next have to score a td drive. Not the 8 yard line. There was no benefit of kicking the fg there except to cover the spread.

There is a benefit. A couple actually, whether you agree with the call or not. 1. It allowed the defense a buffer to give up a FG and keep it a 1 possession game instead of a NE FG ending the game. 2. It enabled the Cowboys the ability to win with a TD instead of tie or need to convert a 2 point conversion.

 

[HungryLion]

No, I said, "I'm more comfortable believing." Said nothing about odds. Don't care for the odds.

Neither does our loser coach. Which is the point of the thread.

 

[Hennessy_King]

If that’s the case it’s even worse!

I was wrong they started at the 25. But that's still an extra 15 yards of field position.