Help Me Out

[Bizwah]

You missed the point of my post....I think......I was saying that if you can talk about unproven players as improvements, then we can too.

I don't think that you can say that yet. I'm not saying that they don't have potential but they are 2nd and 3rd round rookies, not exactly a major improvement over the best guard of all time.

True....but then, could Peterman possibly be an improvement over the "LA" of last year?

There's no question that he's no Allen in Allen's prime. I'm not going to say that.

But it's a possible improvement over what we had last year.

Again you are implying that these guys will be good. Something you can't say until they play at least one game.

Actually, I was pointing out the inconsistency of your posts. Sure, you have two CBs with experience, but they're far from proven.

And I disagree with the first rounder post thingy...There are many first round busts. Until McDougle, Andrews, and Green (?I think?) prove it on the field, then they're question marks.

I don't exactly agree with this. I think he is the most overrated reciever of all time and I have been saying that for a while now, not just because he is on the Cowboys. He realy is no better than what you had last year. That is just my opinion though.

I agree that he's an overrated receiver. But to say he's no better than what we had last year is wishful thinking on your part.

What were we missing with our WR corps last year? Answer: Toughness..a Possession receiver.....size....attitude... Does Key provide these things? Yes. Do we still have plenty of speed to burn at WR without JG? Yes..

So improvement at WR....

I agree that he will be an upgrade but again, everything you say is just assuming that these rookies will produce a lot their rookie year.

Again, this is what I was pointing out about you.....I was merely trying to state that we can say the same thing about your young players.

I'm not going to coment on this...

That's just fine....I'm not bragging about our QB situation. This is the position that separates our two teams.

But Henson is our future.....I'm excited about what he can be.

Your defense isn't bad, just not the best in the league.

I disagree....But even if you don't think we're the best in the league (in spite of all the evidence that contradicts you), you have to admit we're one of the best.

Hopefully he can improve on his 3 sacks last year...or 6 from the year before.

I'm wagering he can.......But of course, he's a major upgrade anyway you look at it. His two sacks last year were still double what we got from Ek.

Good secondary but I haven't realy heard anything good about Hunter, even on this site!

Not true.....most here will admit that Hunter has great potential. We're just wary of whether or not he'll fulfill it.

Again.....the jist of my post was to point out your inconsistenies.

You come over here trying to shove our "holes" in our faces and crow how yours were all filled. But by pointing out how you filled some of your "holes" with unproven players, you showed inconsistency.

I admit that we have tons of questions. We have tried to plug these "holes" with rookies and unproven players. RB, OL, LB, CB....all areas have unproven players attempting to fill holes.

This is no different from your team....you have "holes" on your team that you're attempting to fill with unprovens.

For every Sheppard you point to.....I can point to a Hunter that is bigger, stronger, and faster. For every McDougle or Brown you point to as filling your "holes" I'll point to a Jones, or a Rogers, or a Peterman.

With unproven players like these, how can you know if your "holes" have been filled better than ours?

 

[Bizwah]

See you can't make that assumption. Remember Dawkins was out the games that they played in. If you could tell me where you got your information about how many TDs Lito and Sheldon gave up I would like to see it. I remember Brown shutting down Antonio Bryant and Sheppard shuting down Terry Glenn, but I am sure you put that memory in the back of your head. To remind you that neither of them had a catch in the second game, along with Galloway, would be nice...They will do fine in that system.

I remember Bryant burning one of your guys (I guess I'll have to break out the tape) for a 50+ yard gain in the third quarter of the first game. Had the throw been better, then he would've scored a 70+ yard TD.

But I'm sure you put this memory in the back of your head.

Another thing to remember is that Bryant was our 3rd WR. Kinda easy to cover when he's on the sideline isn't he?

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Awesome sigpic, Brainpaint.


I'm not getting fresh with the homo. I'm just calling him what I consider his level of intellect to be. Right on par with a cupcake.

Thanks....and I think this thread has spent enough time away from the smack zone.

 

[AJM1613]

With unproven players like these, how can you know if your "holes" have been filled better than ours?

Because they are different players. Where did Hunter come from, draft, UDFA, FA? Just wondering. Its just that Sheppard and Brown have proven them selves, Hunter and two mid round draft picks havent. I never mentioned DE Jamaal Green (pick 131 in 2003 who was injured in the third preseason game and never played again after that) or OG/T Artis Hicks (UDFA last year who shut down Jason Taylor). I never mention OG Trey Derilek or OG Adrien Clarke who are both rookies this year. I never mentioned WR Billy McMullen or WR Justin Jenkins. I never only mentioned CB Matt Ware and Roderick Hood as Nickle and Dime backs.

Even if McDougle or Andrews are busts we actually have two proven players to take their place in Burgess and Hicks who are proven to be very good. The thing is that right now McDougle and Andrews arn't even listed as starters on our depth chart, Burgess and Hicks are. I think that they (McDougle/Andrews) will win the job though.

At all four positions we have proven starters that can play extremely well and two young mid first round picks who have probowl talent. I think that is the difference between your holes and ours.

 

[Bizwah]

Because they are different players. Where did Hunter come from, draft, UDFA, FA? Just wondering. Its just that Sheppard and Brown have proven them selves, Hunter and two mid round draft picks havent. I never mentioned DE Jamaal Green (pick 131 in 2003 who was injured in the third preseason game and never played again after that) or OG/T Artis Hicks (UDFA last year who shut down Jason Taylor). I never mention OG Trey Derilek or OG Adrien Clarke who are both rookies this year. I never mentioned WR Billy McMullen or WR Justin Jenkins. I never only mentioned CB Matt Ware and Roderick Hood as Nickle and Dime backs.

Again.......What makes your unprovens better than ours?

We won't know until they log lots of time.

Sure, it's easy for you to say yours are better.....but how can you really know?

This is the flaw in your logic.

Green, Hicks, Derilek, Clarke, McMullen, Jenkins, Ware, Hood.......all these players are the same as ours.....HUGE question marks.

Even if McDougle or Andrews are busts we actually have two proven players to take their place in Burgess and Hicks who are proven to be very good. The thing is that right now McDougle and Andrews arn't even listed as starters on our depth chart, Burgess and Hicks are. I think that they (McDougle/Andrews) will win the job though.

Burgess and Hicks proven good? To whom? Eagle fans?

At all four positions we have proven starters that can play extremely well and two young mid first round picks who have probowl talent. I think that is the difference between your holes and ours.

No, there is no difference. You're only wanting them to be different. A rookie is a rookie.....an unproven player is an unproven player.

You can't say with any degree of certainty that they're different.

YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!

And by the way........it was Sheppard and Lewis that had to chase Bryant on the long pass.....but to be fair it looked to be blown coverage. Good play fake by QC.....both players bit on the fake. Bryant blew right by em.

 

[AJM1613]

This is the flaw in your logic.

Green, Hicks, Derilek, Clarke, McMullen, Jenkins, Ware, Hood.......all these players are the same as ours.....HUGE question marks.

Actually Hicks isn't a question mark. He shut down Jason Taylor. He also played well when he played as a back up for Welbourn, got a lot of snaps.

Burgess and Hicks proven good? To whom? Eagle fans?

Burgess had a very good rookie year (especially for an Eagle). He has been hurt the last two seasons. He was originally planed to take over for Hugh, not McDougle. This is the one guy who you can consider proven.

No, there is no difference. You're only wanting them to be different. A rookie is a rookie.....an unproven player is an unproven player.

You can't say with any degree of certainty that they're different.

YOU DON'T KNOW!!!!

Burgess and Hicks are proven. They have proven to us and the coaching staff that they can play in NFL games. McDougle did play last season hurt, and when he played he played pretty well considering the condition he was in. He wasn't surpose to come back, the injury was lost than first thought. He still got pressure a lot. He was the end who rushed Farve in the regular season game we played the Packers that caused a fumble sealing us the win, even though he wasn't credited for it. He is more proven than Pete Hunter. Okay I will not bring up Andrews any more, just Hicks and Burgess.

And by the way........it was Sheppard and Lewis that had to chase Bryant on the long pass.....but to be fair it looked to be blown coverage. Good play fake by QC.....both players bit on the fake. Bryant blew right by em.

They chased him down? That is a plus. I bet it was good play calling more than anything.


Burgess and Hicks are proven, McDougle and Andrews are not even though they have the talent to be great. Green, Derilek, Clarke, McMullen, Jenkins, Ware, Hood, Tapeh, Reed, Bradley and Wynn are not proven. The only reason why I mentioned them was to show a point.

To sum it up:

Sheppard, Brown, Burgess, Hicks=Proven, still have more to prove
McDougle, Andrews=Should be great, Not Proven
Green, Derilek, Clarke, McMullen, Jenkins, Ware, Hood, Tapeh, Reed, Bradley and Wynn=Not Proven

Get it?

 

[Bizwah]

Torrin Tucker shut down Julius Peppers.

By your logic, he's a proven RT.

Problem solved.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Our little Eagles fan misses the big picture I'm afraid.

The Eagles did not claim the division until week 17 of the season. They produced the same division record as us, and we split the season series.

The monkey is off our backs so to speak. Our team will no longer be intimidated by those thugs and the gap in talent has been erased.

The most important thing to recognize is that the management for Philthy appears to be inept. How many seasons did Any Reid stick with the status quoe at wide receiver? And now he seems to recognize the deficiency at the position? Too bad he didn't recognize this while the defense was championship calibre and the rest of the division was struggling.

The Eagles are not a class above anybody in the NFL any longer. The sooner or little Eagle fan recognized this, the better off he will be. Otherwise he is in for a major letdown this season.

 

[phdefense]

See you can't make that assumption. Remember Dawkins was out the games that they played in. If you could tell me where you got your information about how many TDs Lito and Sheldon gave up I would like to see it. I remember Brown shutting down Antonio Bryant and Sheppard shuting down Terry Glenn, but I am sure you put that memory in the back of your head. To remind you that neither of them had a catch in the second game, along with Galloway, would be nice...They will do fine in that system.

then you remember incorrectly
it was the 2nd meeting that Bryant was shutdown
You had Taylor and Vincent back
of course I have pointed out repeatedly that eagles fans have a scewed version "shutdown"
Bryant recorded his second longest reception of the season in the first game where he faced off againist you current starting secondary

 

[AJM1613]

The Eagles did not claim the division until week 17 of the season. They produced the same division record as us, and we split the season series.

Are you serious?
I guess you don't know how to watch a football game. I guess you didn't realize how many injuries we had last season or how we dominated you the second game. Last year was surpose to be a rebuilding year for us, according to many analists and we went 12-4 and went to the NFC Championship game.

The most important thing to recognize is that the management for Philthy appears to be inept. How many seasons did Any Reid stick with the status quoe at wide receiver? And now he seems to recognize the deficiency at the position? Too bad he didn't recognize this while the defense was championship calibre and the rest of the division was struggling.

I guess you don't realize that we drafted a reciever in the first round in 2001 (Mitchell), one in the second round in 2000 (Pinkston) and one in the third round in 2003 (McMullen). I guess you also didn't realize that Pinkston was improving (181 yards in 2000, 586 in 2001, 798 in 2002) until last season and looked like he would be ready for a 1000 yard season in 2003. He only got 575 yards recieving. He should have been solid last year but he was diappointing. Billy McMullen looked great coming out of college and this coming year, has a chance to unseat Pinkston as the number two. The defense is still a good defense, we have the pass rushing Dline in football and the best safeties in the league. Our LBs were never that strong, and this year they should be just as stronger then they were last year, and two years ago. I seriously don't see your point. Do you actually believe that we have a bad defense?

The Eagles are not a class above anybody in the NFL any longer. The sooner or little Eagle fan recognized this, the better off he will be. Otherwise he is in for a major letdown this season.

Last year we didn't look like we would be that good, we had no pass rush, awful recievers and 9 defensive players (5 on IR) out for most of last year. We also had 3 offensive players (2 on IR) out for most of the year. If we can stay healthy then we are the best team in the NFC, no question, and top two in the league. You realy have no idea what you are talking about do you?

 

[AJM1613]

then you remember incorrectly
it was the 2nd meeting that Bryant was shutdown
You had Taylor and Vincent back
of course I have pointed out repeatedly that eagles fans have a scewed version "shutdown"
Bryant recorded his second longest reception of the season in the first game where he faced off againist you current starting secondary

Do you know how to read the whole thread? Vincent and Taylor were back, but they were hurt. Look back at the game film and see that Taylor almost never played (except for that interception of course).

Because your boardmates seem to like bringing up midround rookie draft picks I will bring up Matt Ware, a projected late 1st early 2nd round pick who was said to be a lot like Bobby Taylor, even before we drafted him. He has a chance to start this year. Also let me bring up what one of your posters said.

And by the way........it was Sheppard and Lewis that had to chase Bryant on the long pass.....but to be fair it looked to be blown coverage. Good play fake by QC.....both players bit on the fake. Bryant blew right by em.

.
You see? That pass was a play fake which they both bit on. Then they chased Bryant down from behind, it wasn't blown coverage. That was a young player mistake, not because they arn't skilled. AND THEY CHASED HIM DOWN FROM BEHIND!!!

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Are you serious?
I guess you don't know how to watch a football game. I guess you didn't realize how many injuries we had last season or how we dominated you the second game. Last year was surpose to be a rebuilding year for us, according to many analists and we went 12-4 and went to the NFC Championship game.

What's an "analists"? Sorry for pointing this out, I guess I'm just an "analist". I "surpose" I need to learn to let these things slide when dealing with Philthy fans.

So injuries are your excuse for barely winning the division? I suppose the fact that we had a new coach and new system means nothing to you. Don't you know how to watch football?

I guess you don't realize that we drafted a reciever in the first round in 2001 (Mitchell), one in the second round in 2000 (Pinkston) and one in the third round in 2003 (McMullen).

I realized it. I also realized they sucked much sooner then fat ******* did.

That's some eye for talent. No wonder you are so confident in all those "upgrades" this year!

Last year we didn't look like we would be that good, we had no pass rush, awful recievers and 9 defensive players (5 on IR) out for most of last year. We also had 3 offensive players (2 on IR) out for most of the year. If we can stay healthy then we are the best team in the NFC, no question, and top two in the league. You realy have no idea what you are talking about do you?

You "realy" can't spell very well. Why should I believe anything you say when you appear so stupid?

Anyway, when is this "top 2" team going to a superbowl? Will it be this year since you have a decent "reciever"?

Face it; your franchise is along the same lines as the Cardinals and Bengals. A few winning seasons doesn't change that. It will take more then winning the East during the down years to win any respect in the league. Until then just accept that you root for a loser. Have you ever wondered why a team with so little success can be so hated? Why don't you think about that for a while before posting again on this forum.

 

[AJM1613]

What's an "analists"? Sorry for pointing this out, I guess I'm just an "analist". I "surpose" I need to learn to let these things slide when dealing with Philthy fans.

So injuries are your excuse for barely winning the division? I suppose the fact that we had a new coach and new system means nothing to you. Don't you know how to watch football?


I realized it. I also realized they sucked much sooner then fat ******* did.

That's some eye for talent. No wonder you are so confident in all those "upgrades" this year!


You "realy" can't spell very well. Why should I believe anything you say when you appear so stupid?

Anyway, when is this "top 2" team going to a superbowl? Will it be this year since you have a decent "reciever"?

Face it; your franchise is along the same lines as the Cardinals and Bengals. A few winning seasons doesn't change that. It will take more then winning the East during the down years to win any respect in the league. Until then just accept that you root for a loser. Have you ever wondered why a team with so little success can be so hated? Why don't you think about that for a while before posting again on this forum.

Wow! You are realy picky. I spelt 4 words wrong, and realized it after I did it. I'm sorry, "Annalist", "Really", Suppose", "Receiver" there better? How about them Mavericks, Stars, or Rangers? You have some premire teams to root for down in Dallas. You just made my point about what I have been saying about Cowboy fans my hole life, FRONT RUNNER. You said that we have a loosing francise, you think that is going to make me stop rooting for the team I have been rooting for my whole life? You are a stereo typical Dallas fan. We have three championships, what an AWFUL francise...You proably don't remember though, you know Dallas was bad back then, must have been a Packer fan. You can't even give valid points without bashing me, for not paying attention to the way I was spelling. It is extremely sad.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Hey moron, let’s try this again.


Wow! You are realy picky. I spelt 4 words wrong, and realized it after I did it. I'm sorry, "Annalist", "Really", Suppose", "Receiver" there better? How about them Mavericks, Stars, or Rangers? You have some premire teams to root for down in Dallas. You just made my point about what I have been saying about Cowboy fans my hole life, FRONT RUNNER. You said that we have a loosing francise, you think that is going to make me stop rooting for the team I have been rooting for my whole life? You are a stereo typical Dallas fan. We have three championships, what an AWFUL francise...You proably don't remember though, you know Dallas was bad back then, must have been a Packer fan. You can't even give valid points without bashing me, for not paying attention to the way I was spelling. It is extremely sad.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

Just goes to show you have to be a complete idiot to root for Philthy.

No analysis needed.

 

[AJM1613]

Hey moron, let’s try this again.


Wow! You are realy picky. I spelt 4 words wrong, and realized it after I did it. I'm sorry, "Annalist", "Really", Suppose", "Receiver" there better? How about them Mavericks, Stars, or Rangers? You have some premire teams to root for down in Dallas. You just made my point about what I have been saying about Cowboy fans my hole life, FRONT RUNNER. You said that we have a loosing francise, you think that is going to make me stop rooting for the team I have been rooting for my whole life? You are a stereo typical Dallas fan. We have three championships, what an AWFUL francise...You proably don't remember though, you know Dallas was bad back then, must have been a Packer fan. You can't even give valid points without bashing me, for not paying attention to the way I was spelling. It is extremely sad.

Alright!! I know I can't spell!! I never write anything anymore where I can't use spell check!! I get it. Why do you keep pointing this out? You seriously can't really think I think that you spell "probably"-"proably", do you? I will remember to reread all of my post before I hit "submit reply" from now on. Damn, it is a MESSAGE BOARD! IT ISN'T a THESIS!!! Why do you care?

 

[Bizwah]

Do you know how to read the whole thread? Vincent and Taylor were back, but they were hurt. Look back at the game film and see that Taylor almost never played (except for that interception of course).

Because your boardmates seem to like bringing up midround rookie draft picks I will bring up Matt Ware, a projected late 1st early 2nd round pick who was said to be a lot like Bobby Taylor, even before we drafted him. He has a chance to start this year. Also let me bring up what one of your posters said.
.
You see? That pass was a play fake which they both bit on. Then they chased Bryant down from behind, it wasn't blown coverage. That was a young player mistake, not because they arn't skilled. AND THEY CHASED HIM DOWN FROM BEHIND!!!

First of all, you're the one bringing up unproven players.

For the last time.....and listen......I wouldn't bring up unproven players if you didn't.

And the players didn't "chase" Bryant down. He blew by them.....he would've scored easily, but he had to come back for a badly underthrown ball (any surprise on that?). He outjumped both Philly players for it.

They chased no one down.

 

[AJM1613]

Just goes to show you have to be a complete idiot to root for Philthy.

No analysis needed.

You are a front runner arn't you? It is sad, realy, that people root for teams just because they are doing well.

 

[AJM1613]

First of all, you're the one bringing up unproven players.

For the last time.....and listen......I wouldn't bring up unproven players if you didn't.

And the players didn't "chase" Bryant down. He blew by them.....he would've scored easily, but he had to come back for a badly underthrown ball (any surprise on that?). He outjumped both Philly players for it.

They chased no one down.

I don't remember the play except that it was a big gain. All of your recievers only caught 8 balls that day, which isn't spectacular, for 146 yards. If you take away that 49 yard pass, and the 37 yard trick play to Galloway from Cason, you get 6 receptions for 60 yards for the three recievers. Also none of them had a TD that game. I think that they did an alright job. The final score of that game was 23 to 21, not 34 to 10. We should have won that game except McNabb's injury caused him to fumble the ball (I think that you can agree with me on this, just like it was Farve's injury that caused him to fumble the ball against us when we were in GB) in the last 2:00s and lets not forget the kickoff. You didn't dominate that game at all, we dominated you the second game. I don't know why I rambled on about that game, I guess it is just something for you to think about.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

You are a front runner arn't you? It is sad, realy, that people root for teams just because they are doing well.

Many of us have been posting on Cowboys message boards for years and years....Even during the 5-11 seasons. This realy crushes your theory, doesn't it?

I don't remember you every posting though. You must realy be a front runner!