Here you go Jerry

[Hostile]

But how much would it really matter if they all weren't on board? When Jerry wants something, he's going to get it.

Show me some proof of this, because he did NOT want to waive Terrell Owens.

 

[Stash]

Garrett wasn't named the OC until after Wade was hired.

Here is the link:

http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2007...ett-offensive-coordinator/UPI-35281172020281/

"We believe that Jason is one of the bright young offensive minds in the NFL," Phillips said. "He has extensive experience in working with some outstanding offensive coaches through 16 years of professional football, and he is well prepared for this position."


Craig

This isn't accurate.

Garrett was hired before Wade was. At that time he was either going to be named offensive coordinator or head coach.

And unlike other situations, he wasn't 'retained' by Phillips either. Garrett had never coached a game for the Cowboys, therefore unlike other coaches, Phillips didn't 'retain' him.

If Phillips didn't take Garrett as part of the deal, he wasn't getting the Dallas head-coaching job.

Part of this team's dysfunctional dynamic.

 

[Hostile]

This isn't accurate.

Garrett was hired before Wade was. At that time he was either going to be named offensive coordinator or head coach.

And unlike other situations, he wasn't 'retained' by Phillips either. Garrett had never coached a game for the Cowboys, therefore unlike other coaches, Phillips didn't 'retain' him.

If Phillips didn't take Garrett as part of the deal, he wasn't getting the Dallas head-coaching job.

Part of this team's dysfunctional dynamic.

I have no issue with this.

Garrett was a good hire.

 

[Apollo Creed]

At times I feel like people think football is like Legos or Lincoln logs.

Just stack it and it will become something.

99.99% of us have no idea the qualifications, input, amount of control, or dynamics of any front office in the NFL, but Fantasy Football and Madden have allowed us room to sit back and assume we do.

Can any of you tell me for 100% certainty who the best football guy in the world is?

If you can, great. Now tell me who he is employed by, how he got unemployed, or how you can guarantee he will not come in here with an ego and ruin what we have that is good.

That would be "inspiring." Until then it is lip service.

No, but I know that Jerry has watched Tony Sparano, Sean Peyton, and Todd Haley all go on to be solid coaches in this league. So I guess he would know a talented coach when he sees one. The Dolphins were 1-15, the Chiefs were perennial cellar dwellers, and the Saints were a franchise in ruin.

So I can safely assert that he is definitely not a good 'football guy' and any move he makes from this point forward will be ego driven and not in the best interest of the team.

The only reason your cockamamie mirages of Garrett becoming the coach are going to come to fruition is because Jerry doesn't want to look stupid, not because he knows whats best for the team.

 

[rcaldw]

You are cherry picking one coaching position. I am giving you the entire NFL.

The difference is, I can name you several coaches across several teams who have been there longer than the Head Coach and some are Coordinators.

Giants...Michael Pope has been with the Giants for 20 years to Coughlin's 7. What this means is Dan Reeves inherited him from Ray Handley. Jim Fassel inherited him from Reeves, and Coughlin from Fassel.

Eagles...Juan Castillo, Ted Williams, and Sean McDermott have all been with the Eagles longer than Andy Reid's 12 years there. The first 2 guys 16 years, McDermott, 13. That means Reid inherited all of them from Ray Rhodes.

Commanders...Steve Jackosn, Kirk Olivadoti and Danny Smith all predate Shanny. Olivadoti has been there 11 years and got his start under Norv Turner, Jackson 8 years came in under Spurrier, and Smith 7 years under Gibbs.

You want me to keep going? There are 28 teams left and I promise you every one of them breaks this cardinal rule you and others trumpet and give incoming Head Coaches assistants that they want them to keep.

No one is arguing that assistants are not retained around the NFL. The argument is about whether the head coach gets to make those choices or not. Anyway, I think all of this has been discussed enough that folks know where each other stands. You believe the current Cowboys way of functioning is absolutely normal. No one around the NFL (knowledgeable people) would raise an eyebrow over it! I'm contending there are knowledgeable NFL people who see our situation as laughable at times.

I don't think I'm wrong about that, and I don't think those people are either, and I think it is not a coincidence that when Jerry has turned to strong head coaches his team's roster has improved, and as he has moved away from those guys, we begin to tank again. You are obviously of a different opinion.

 

[TheDude]

At times I feel like people think football is like Legos or Lincoln logs.

Just stack it and it will become something.

99.99% of us have no idea the qualifications, input, amount of control, or dynamics of any front office in the NFL, but Fantasy Football and Madden have allowed us room to sit back and assume we do.

Can any of you tell me for 100% certainty who the best football guy in the world is?

If you can, great. Now tell me who he is employed by, how he got unemployed, or how you can guarantee he will not come in here with an ego and ruin what we have that is good.

That would be "inspiring." Until then it is lip service.

Geesh.

All he is saying is that we know Garrett, Campo, and Maxie are NOT top eschelon.

There are many names dependig on direction the team goes. Chuck Cecil is a name for 4-3, Capers/Labeau for 3-4 and yes LaBeau is not happening.

The point was not singling in on a name, but staying away from flyers like Garret and previous failures like Campo

 

[TheDude]

Name me one coach in the NFL right now who year 1 brought in his entire staff and no one was a carry over from a previous staff.

Just one.

I can only recall one GM hiring an OC before a HC in the same year they were open. Daniel Snyder with Zorn, but then....

If the OC was good and didn't get the HC jobm some stay. It is almost unheard of for a GM to hire an open Coordinator job BEFORE a HC

 

[Hostile]

I can only recall one GM hiring an OC before a HC in the same year they were open. Daniel Snyder with Zorn, but then....

If the OC was good and didn't get the HC jobm some stay. It is almost unheard of for a GM to hire an open Coordinator job BEFORE a HC

Now the criteria has changed to the same year the HC was hired.

If I come up with another example it will be changed again.

Pat Bowlen hired Josh McDaniels to be his Head Coach before he hired a GM to choose his coach.

It happens people. Stop acting like every franchise does things the same way except us and we are dysfunctional.

 

[craig71]

This isn't accurate.

Garrett was hired before Wade was. At that time he was either going to be named offensive coordinator or head coach.

And unlike other situations, he wasn't 'retained' by Phillips either. Garrett had never coached a game for the Cowboys, therefore unlike other coaches, Phillips didn't 'retain' him.

If Phillips didn't take Garrett as part of the deal, he wasn't getting the Dallas head-coaching job.

Part of this team's dysfunctional dynamic.

It is accurate, I did not deny that Jason was hired before Wade, I simply stated that Jason was named OC after Wade was hired. Wade made the announcement that Garrett was going to be his OC did he not?

Here is something for you to chew on:

Prior to this season, Saints coach Sean Payton attempted to bring Garrett to New Orleans as offensive coordinator, and Cleveland was denied in its bid to talk with Garrett this season.

Here is the link, I suggest you read the entire article:

http://www.cowboysplus.com/topstory/stories/012507cpcowgarrett.158c8b79.html



Craig

 

[craig71]

Here is another tidbit on why they made the move to bring in Garrett.

In 2004, Norv Turner tried to hire Garrett as his quarterbacks coach in Oakland. Garrett decided to milk one more year playing in the NFL, splitting his final year (2004) with Tampa Bay and Miami.

In 2005, Nick Saban quickly added Garrett to his staff when he decided to finally call it quits playing. Then offensive coordinator Scott Linehan tells the story about meeting Garrett for the first time at the Senior Bowl that year, and that 10 hours later they hired him.

In 2006, Linehan, St. Louis’ newly-named head coach, tried to bring Garrett, with just one year of coaching under his belt, with him as offensive coordinator but was denied permission by the Dolphins.

In 2007, after Saban left the Dolphins for the University of Alabama, he wanted Garrett to be the Crimson Tide’s offensive coordinator. Butch Davis wanted him in the same capacity at North Carolina. Les Miles wanted him at LSU. No go, said the Dolphins, who had him under contract for another season and at the time were unsure of how they would fill their head coaching vacancy.

In 2007, Cleveland tried repeatedly to seek permission to speak with Garrett about its offensive coordinator’s position, but the Dolphins told the Browns, hands off.

In 2007, Miami’s newly-named head coach Cam Cameron offered Garrett an extension to his one-remaining year with the Dolphins as the quarterbacks coach, putting a Thursday deadline on Garrett’s decision.

Here is the link to the full article:

http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/2007/01/jason-garrett-a-wanted-man/

Another little quote:

"The nature and timing of this hire is unique in that we were dealing with a limited window of time in which to talk to Jason about returning to Dallas," Jones said in a statement.

Here is the link:

http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2007/01/26/Cowboys-new-coach-naming-on-hold/UPI-41591169852175/

Craig

 

[TheDude]

So the face of the franchise/GM/owner is probably the best at his primary skill set - marketing. Marketing is essentially advertising and generating hype, substance not always needed (The best brand - Coke, is basically marketing sugar and water). Seems about right.

what I have learned is that Jerry is not into actively managing and proactively seeking talent. This makes matters worse, because Stephen,et al will be here longer than Jerry and their track record is suspect. This team is not NEAR as talented as everyone believes and since Parcells and Payron left, the moves have been about 100% horrible.

Def (11 starters + nickel corner)
Newman-Parcells
Jenkins-Wade
Ball-Wade
Sensy-Wade
Spencer-Wade
Spears-Parcells
Ratliff-Parcells
Olshansky-Wade
Ware-Parcells
James-Parcells
Brooking-Wade
Scandrick-Wade
How is the depth with Wade guys?

Offense
Romo-Parcells
Barber-Parcells
Gronk-Wade
Columbo-Parcells
Davis-Wade
Gourode-Parcells
Holland-Wade
Free-Wade
RWilliams-Wade
Austin-Parcells
Witten-Parcells

ST
Hurd-Parcells
McBriar-Parcells
Ladeucer-?Parcells at least (Maybe Campo?)
Buehler-Wade

the talent on board pre-date Wade and the Post Parcells talent from Stephen, Wade, etc, is a large failure. Jenkins is good, Dez is great but they are first rounders - at least they got that one right. The depth is gone, Columbo was fairly solid until last years injury.

The Parcells era didn't hit every move (OL), but our "stars" (Romo, Witten, Ware, Austin, Ratliff, Newman) are from that era and very dependable guys like Gourode, Spears, James are also. I doubt the Wade era will yield much more than Jenkins, Spencer, Bryant 2 years from now - all 1st rd picks.

I don't care if you want to give Jerry or stephen or Mrs jones the blame, but the talent scouts currently are failing. Also it is hard to dismiss the success Sparano, Payton, and Haley are having.

If Jerry is passive as you say, he needs to get more hands onbecause Stephen and Wade and Ciz suck

 

[TheDude]

Now the criteria has changed to the same year the HC was hired.

If I come up with another example it will be changed again.

Pat Bowlen hired Josh McDaniels to be his Head Coach before he hired a GM to choose his coach.

It happens people. Stop acting like every franchise does things the same way except us and we are dysfunctional.

I don't think MY criteria changed. i don't see how you make a comparison of hiring Garret as a 1st time OC before hiring the HC (phillips) is comparable to the Steelers KEEPING LaBeau as DC when Tomlin is hired for the HC vacany. Pitt had just won a SB, their style worked, LaBeau is proven - garrett not so much. Phillips had no say about JG and it isn't like JG was zampesie or even Charlie Weiss

 

[craig71]

So the face of the franchise/GM/owner is probably the best at his primary skill set - marketing. Marketing is essentially advertising and generating hype, substance not always needed (The best brand - Coke, is basically marketing sugar and water). Seems about right.

what I have learned is that Jerry is not into actively managing and proactively seeking talent. This makes matters worse, because Stephen,et al will be here longer than Jerry and their track record is suspect. This team is not NEAR as talented as everyone believes and since Parcells and Payron left, the moves have been about 100% horrible.

Def (11 starters + nickel corner)
Newman-Parcells
Jenkins-Wade
Ball-Wade
Sensy-Wade
Spencer-Wade
Spears-Parcells
Ratliff-Parcells
Olshansky-Wade
Ware-Parcells
James-Parcells
Brooking-Wade
Scandrick-Wade
How is the depth with Wade guys?

Offense
Romo-Parcells
Barber-Parcells
Gronk-Wade
Columbo-Parcells
Davis-Wade
Gourode-Parcells
Holland-Wade
Free-Wade
RWilliams-Wade
Austin-Parcells
Witten-Parcells

ST
Hurd-Parcells
McBriar-Parcells
Ladeucer-?Parcells at least (Maybe Campo?)
Buehler-Wade

the talent on board pre-date Wade and the Post Parcells talent from Stephen, Wade, etc, is a large failure. Jenkins is good, Dez is great but they are first rounders - at least they got that one right. The depth is gone, Columbo was fairly solid until last years injury.

The Parcells era didn't hit every move (OL), but our "stars" (Romo, Witten, Ware, Austin, Ratliff, Newman) are from that era and very dependable guys like Gourode, Spears, James are also. I doubt the Wade era will yield much more than Jenkins, Spencer, Bryant 2 years from now.

I don't care if you want to give Jerry or stephen or Mrs jones the blame, but the talent scouts currently are failing. Also it is hard to dismiss the success Sparano, Payton, and Haley are having.

If Jerry is passive as you say, he needs to get more hands onbecause Stephen and Wade and Ciz suck

Parcells was here when the LS LaDouceur was brought in.

Craig

 

[Hostile]

Here is another tidbit on why they made the move to bring in Garrett.



Here is the link to the full article:

http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/2007/01/jason-garrett-a-wanted-man/

Another little quote:



Here is the link:

http://www.upi.com/Sports_News/2007/01/26/Cowboys-new-coach-naming-on-hold/UPI-41591169852175/

Craig

Outstanding finds.

 

[TheDude]

Parcells was here when the LS LaDouceur was brought in.

Craig

LOL.....so wade the Def guru hired by the marketing guy leaves us behind with 3 1st rd picks as keepers. What a record.

How can anyone remotely feel optimistic about this? It will take 3 years to get this team back, but the problem is that there is still no identity on Def or offense. What tyoe OL do you want? Alex Gibbs-style or Houck, 4-3 or 3-4?

Depressing

 

[Hostile]

LOL.....so wade the Def guru hired by the marketing guy leaves us behind with 3 1st rd picks as keepers. What a record.

How can anyone remotely feel optimistic about this? It will take 3 years to get this team back, but the problem is that there is still no identity on Def or offense. What tyoe OL do you want? Alex Gibbs-style or Houck, 4-3 or 3-4?

Depressing

Holy paranoia. You got all that from Ladouceur was here in he Parcells era?

 

[craig71]

Holy paranoia. You got all that from Ladouceur was here in he Parcells era?

I think it had more to do with a blood red moon and a flock of ravens circling Valley Ranch on the day LaDouceur arrived.

Craig

 

[TheDude]

Holy paranoia. You got all that from Ladouceur was here in he Parcells era?

You're so funny

Hardly paranoid. The word looks good in a pithy reply, but no, no one is "after me" because of LaDeceur. I tdo not think anyone is conspiring about anything.

just rereading the ENTIRE list. It didn't hit home writing as it did reading it. the record speaks for itself.

Way to not address that issue

 

[Hostile]

You're so funny

Hardly paranoid. The word looks good in a pithy reply, but no, no one is "after me" because of LaDeceur. I tdo not think anyone is conspiring about anything.

just rereading the ENTIRE list. It didn't hit home writing as it did reading it. the record speaks for itself.

Way to not address that issue

Yeah, issues.

 

[TheDude]

Yeah, issues.

Some people have them and know them, some just don't know them