How do we motivate Roy Williams? Demote him like Crayton?

TwoDeep3

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GimmeTheBall!;3178723 said:
"No. 2" gets one catch for 4 yards?

yesterday was not an abida-abida-abida abberation. Roy Williams is not a player at this time.
And we as fans and the Cowboys as a team should not be foreced for this prima dona to flower.

RW has excuses. He was smiling after not catching that ball that was in his hands yesterday. He is just flat-out a third-string player at this point.
Someone wake me up when the coaching staff does what it is supposed to do and insert a younger and hungrier player as RW's replacement.
We cannot baby this player. He's taking up space and using up air in the field.

Give him up to the raiders or browns or the Bucs for a 4th rounder, cause that is the best deal we're gonna get.

Yesterday Derrick Mason dropped a touchdown that changed the outcome of the Ravens/Steelers game.

Right in his hands.

As he ran back to the huddle, knowing he cost the team a seven point lead, he was smiling as he was kicking himself for missing the ball.

I can't help it if fans see Roy smiling and think he doesn't care.

Fans are as rational as Charles Manson on acid sometimes.
 

RS12

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Ok, I think we all see that roy williams needs to step up his game, with catching the ball when the ball hits him in the hands.

Joe, this guy is what he is. The most overated player in the NFL and a one dimensonal player. He aint gonna step it up. Best they can hope for is a redzone threat IMO. Golden Tate in the second round could really make this offense elite.
 

tomson75

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TwoDeep3;3178725 said:
Thanks for your emotional response.

It is comforting when someone comes along and underscores my point for me.

And what exactly was your point?

That it's really really tough out there, and that there are some really big mean guys trying to hurt him, and that's why its so hard to catch the ball?

Maybe if he played with some more emotion he'd get his head out of his ***.

But no, he plays scared, he plays like crap.

...and then he tells us its because of the sun, the moon, the stars, the lack of opportunities.

Whatever. Catch the ball Roy.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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Ogletree, Hurd and Miles all dropped balls yesterday. Who exactly are we going to bring in that is going to be an upgrade? I don't like watching Roy drop balls but I also don't believe we have anybody on the team who is a better solution right now.
 

TwoDeep3

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tomson75;3178752 said:
And what exactly was your point?

That it's really really tough out there, and that there are some really big mean guys trying to hurt him, and that's why its so hard to catch the ball?

Maybe if he played with some more emotion he'd get his head out of his ***.

But no, he plays scared, he plays like crap.

...and then he tells us its because of the sun, the moon, the stars, the lack of opportunities.

Whatever. Catch the ball Roy.

Not at all. That fans pop off like they have a pair and yet their sum total of contribution is whining on message boards like a back seat driver.

Hence my kudos to you for offering a practical factions on my point for the class to review.
 

fairviewfarmer

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cowboyjoe;3178288 said:
Ok, I think we all see that roy williams needs to step up his game, with catching the ball when the ball hits him in the hands. Enough of this Wade saying he catches big catches in practice, he hasnt done it in the game time situations.

Do you all remember when Patrick Crayton got demoted from WR position and punt returner. What happened. Crayton rededicated himself, look at himself hard, and stepped up his game. WE all saw the postive results, when Crayton made some big plays as a WR and later returned some big balls for TD's on punt returns, etc.

Ex Cowboy player All Pro Larry Brown said, the best way to motivate a player was to have more open competition, like sit roy down some and let Ogletree or Hurd get more playing time. This will either force Roy W... to step up his game and prove he is a good WR.

Look at it this way, as the number one WR, or number 2 WR which I think he is, if Roy Williams job isnt threatened, then why should he concern himself to concentrate more and work harder to make those big catches.

Your thoughts zoners?
Bench Him ! Ogletree is better right now. Maybe the benching will wake Roy up.
 

Crown Royal

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The difference between Miles and Williams is that Austin more than makes up for his drops (he also had a drop or 3 in the KC game). Austin doesn't actually always make the catch, but at least he makes up for them. Williams, quite frankly, does not.

I do agree with the other two, though. It's too late in the season to seriously entertain a change, UNLESS Romo or the coaches feel that going to Williams on plays is so much a liability that they won't even try it anymore. At that point it makes no sense for him to start if we aren't going to throw at him.

Making a change now would be akin to responding to our WR woes of last season...which got us into the current mess.

Finish out the season, cut him, move on.
 

kmd24

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The good news about Williams is that his problems are correctable. It's his footwork. Bad news is he probably won't work on it.
 

tomson75

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TwoDeep3;3178765 said:
Not at all. That fans pop off like they have a pair and yet their sum total of contribution is whining on message boards like a back seat driver.

Hence my kudos to you for offering a practical factions on my point for the class to review.

That was your point? That fans aren't contributing anything? Stop the ****ing presses people!!

I don't recall anyone saying anything to the contrary, but what I do see, is fans (you) making excuses for the inexcusable. I see you offering some sort of lame *** insult to myself and others as to whether or not we could do his job.

I offer you this: Who the **** cares if I could do it? I'm not getting paid to. Capisce?

You mentioning the fans is about as irrelevant to this topic as whether or not you use Pert plus to get rid of your dandruff.

Your first post on this topic was dead on, since then....not so much.

....and if you really care to know how big a pair I have, then PM me. Keep your BS off of the forum.
 

Maikeru-sama

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tomson75;3178795 said:
That was your point? That fans aren't contributing anything? Stop the ****ing presses people!!

I don't recall anyone saying anything to the contrary, but what I do see, is fans (you) making excuses for the inexcusable. I see you offering some sort of lame *** insult to myself and others as to whether or not we could do his job.

I offer you this: Who the **** cares if I could do it? I'm not getting paid to. Capisce?

You mentioning the fans is about as irrelevant to this topic as whether or not you use Pert plus to get rid of your dandruff.

Your first post on this topic was dead on, since then....not so much.

....and if you really care to know how big a pair I have, then PM me. Keep your BS off of the forum.

:laugh2:

Great Post!!!
 

Crown Royal

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kmd24;3178785 said:
The good news about Williams is that his problems are correctable. It's his footwork. Bad news is he probably won't work on it.
?

What does his footwork have to do with trying to catch a pass with his body?
 

ABQCOWBOY

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He has 7 TDs on the season. He is becoming a factor in the Red Zone. He can not be ingnored by opposing defenses. As I said earlier, I would like to see Roy catch everything but what your really looking for is a guy who can force defenses to play honestly. Opposing defenses can not forget about Roy and that leads to more catches from Austin. If you take Roy away, the defenses don't play us the same. It makes it harder for all our other WRs to make plays. We're a work in progress and we're coming along at the right time. I'm very happy with what I'm seeing out of our offense. I wished we could get a yard on short yardage plays because this is starting to worry me but the passing game, IMO, is fine. Tony is playing well and the WRs are producing. I'm more worried about our short yardage running game to be honest.
 

Crown Royal

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ABQCOWBOY;3178809 said:
He has 7 TDs on the season. He is becoming a factor in the Red Zone. He can not be ingnored by opposing defenses. As I said earlier, I would like to see Roy catch everything but what your really looking for is a guy who can force defenses to play honestly. Opposing defenses can not forget about Roy and that leads to more catches from Austin. If you take Roy away, the defenses don't play us the same. It makes it harder for all our other WRs to make plays. We're a work in progress and we're coming along at the right time. I'm very happy with what I'm seeing out of our offense. I wished we could get a yard on short yardage plays because this is starting to worry me but the passing game, IMO, is fine. Tony is playing well and the WRs are producing. I'm more worried about our short yardage running game to be honest.
I ask again - for the 49 points he has scored, how many points has he cost us by stalling drives?
 

ScipioCowboy

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Crown Royal;3178692 said:
How much scoring has he taken away by stalling drives on catchable balls. We tolerated dropped balls from TO (and even Austin) because their playmaking more than makes up for it. But Williams isn't making more good plays than drops.

The burden of that particular argument falls on you. So you tell us: How many of Williams' drops have stalled drives that would've led to certain points?
 

Crown Royal

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Just because i couldn't quite remember, I checked his stats for this season. The following are the teams that Roy has scored a TD against:

Tampa
Seattle
Green Bay (this was at the end)
Oakland
NYG (2)
Washington

I've blocked out the NYG game, but I would say that arguably, yesterday and the NYG game are when he came out biggest for us. NYG didn't work out, but that can't be his fault. And yesterday that TD was one of 2. So kudos to him.

My thing is, I feel like I could make a much longer list of the times his drops have been liabilities when we really could have used his help. It just doesn't even out to me.
 

tomson75

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ABQCOWBOY;3178809 said:
He has 7 TDs on the season. He is becoming a factor in the Red Zone. He can not be ingnored by opposing defenses. As I said earlier, I would like to see Roy catch everything but what your really looking for is a guy who can force defenses to play honestly. Opposing defenses can not forget about Roy and that leads to more catches from Austin. If you take Roy away, the defenses don't play us the same. It makes it harder for all our other WRs to make plays. We're a work in progress and we're coming along at the right time. I'm very happy with what I'm seeing out of our offense. I wished we could get a yard on short yardage plays because this is starting to worry me but the passing game, IMO, is fine. Tony is playing well and the WRs are producing. I'm more worried about our short yardage running game to be honest.

Good points.

He may or may not be our biggest concern, but he is a concern nonetheless, and it certainly shouldn't be overlooked.

He is most certainly an asset in the Red Zone, and can still do some things well....as another poster said, we need to put him in a position to do those things. He can very well do those things as our #3. At least until he earns the #2 back. Maybe he just needs a fire lit under his ***...although I would think Austin taking over #1 would do just that.
 

Crown Royal

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ScipioCowboy;3178832 said:
The burden of that particular argument falls on you. So you tell us: How many of Williams' drops have stalled drives that would've led to certain points?
Obviously that can't be answered and is purely speculative. The only specific instance I can consider is the San Diego game when the ball was thrown to him on a fade route in the endzone. I was frustrated by that play specifically because he had position on a player about 6 inches shorter than himself, but rather than turn his hips and attack the ball, he tried to catch over the shoulder. This is naturally anecdotal.
 

Crown Royal

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And ABQ, I do agree that our short yardage woes are a much bigger concern right now.
 

ScipioCowboy

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Crown Royal;3178845 said:
Obviously that can't be answered and is purely speculative. The only specific instance I can consider is the San Diego game when the ball was thrown to him on a fade route in the endzone. I was frustrated by that play specifically because he had position on a player about 6 inches shorter than himself, but rather than turn his hips and attack the ball, he tried to catch over the shoulder. This is naturally anecdotal.

Exactly. Consequently, the argument is moot; not only is it overly speculative, it is only valid if it includes comparisons to other receivers and their "drive-killing" drops.
 

ScipioCowboy

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tomson75;3178844 said:
Good points.

He may or may not be our biggest concern, but he is a concern nonetheless, and it certainly shouldn't be overlooked.

He is most certainly an asset in the Red Zone, and can still do some things well....as another poster said, we need to put him in a position to do those things. He can very well do those things as our #3. At least until he earns the #2 back. Maybe he just needs a fire lit under his ***...although I would think Austin taking over #1 would do just that.

More evidence that I am the most ignored poster on this board!

:laugh2:
 
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