How long until Belichick is considered the greatest ever?

[The30YardSlant]

Whuh huh? Chuck Noll and Don Shula each had Hall of Fame quarterbacks playing for them. In fact, Shula had 2 HoF QBs playing for him in Miami and failed to win a single title with one of them. Noll is a great example of a HC who was pretty darn mediocre in those years where he didn't have his great, Hall of Fame QB playing for him.

Chuck Knoll won four SBs with Terry Bradshaw who had a career rating of 70, threw the same number of INTs as TDs and threw MORE INTs than TDs in two of those four SB winning seasons. He is the most undeserving Hall of Famer in history and is only there because he played on thos great Stellers teams. Statistically, he remains the second worst QB to ever win a SB as a starter. he had more postseason INTs than TDs and holds the record for turnovers in a playoff game in the SB era. Bradshaw wasnt great, he wasnt even good. At his best he was just a guy, and more often than not he was a poor QB who got bailed out by a legendary defense and running game.

Shula never won a SB with Marino but did win one with 39 year old Earl Morrall in what many consider the best season in NFL history. His other title came with Brian Griese, another statisitcally average QB even by 1970s standards who is in the HOF because of the teams he played on.

And it's ironic you mention Bill Parcells, the most overrated coach of all time, who never won a single playoff game in his career without Bill Belichick on his staff.

Parcells took four different teams to the playoffs, all four of which he rebuilt himself from nothing. Three went to the conference title game and two to the SB. He won Superbowls with Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler. If that's overrated, I'll take it.

 

[Rogah]

Parcells took four different teams to the playoffs, all four of which he rebuilt himself from nothing. Three went to the conference title game and two to the SB. He won Superbowls with Phil Simms and Jeff Hostetler. If that's overrated, I'll take it.

And how many playoff games did he win without Belichick? Zero.

 

[The30YardSlant]

And how many playoff games did he win without Belichick? Zero.

How many playoff games did Bill Walsh win without George Seifert?

 

[nathanlt]

Any talk of "cheating" by Belichick is just sour grapes by jealous fans. It's disappointing to see Cowboys fans acting the exact same way as the people who uesd to criticize us that we would all laugh at.

I tip my cap to what the Patriots have done in the past 10 years and I would gladly take all the controversy and criticism if we could accomplish the same in the next 10 years. And so would you and everybody else in this forum.

What an ignorant post. Belicheck willfully defied the league rules that he was specifically warned against breaking. That is cheating. It tarnishes ANYTHING he will ever accomplish in his career.

I don't tip my cap to what the Patriots have done. They were playing outside the rules.

The Habit of Winning
by Vince Lombardi​

Winning is not a sometime thing. You don't win once-in-a-while. You don't do things right once-in-a-while. You do them right all the time.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing. There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game, and that is first place. I have finished second twice in my time at Green Bay, and I don't ever want to finish second again. There is a second place bowl game--but it is a game for losers played by losers. It is and always has been an American zeal to be the first in anything we do and to win, and to win, and to win.
Every time a football player goes out to play, he's got to play from the ground up. From the soles of his feet right up to his head. Every inch of him has to play. Some guys play with their heads. That's okay - you've got to be smart to be number one in my business. But, more important, you've got to play with your heart. With every fiber of your body. If you are lucky enough to find a guy with a lot of head and a lot of heart, he's never going to come off the field second.
Running a football team is no different from running any other kind of organization--an army, a political party, a business. The problems are the same. The objective is to win. To beat the other guy. Maybe that sounds hard or cruel. I don't think it is.
It is a reality of life that men are competitive and the most competitive games draw the most competitive team. That's why they're here--to compete. They know the rules and the objectives when they get in the game. The objective is to win--fairly, squarely, decently, by the rules--but to win. And in truth, I have never known a man worth his salt who in the long run, deep down in his heart, did not appreciate the grind--the discipline. There is something in good men that really yearns for...needs...discipline and the harsh reality of head-to-head combat.
I don't say these things because I believe in the "brute" nature of man, or that men must be brutalized to be
competitive. I believe in God, and I believe in human decency. But I firmly believe that any man's finest hours, his greatest fulfillment to all he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle victorious.

 

[Rogah]

How many playoff games did Bill Walsh win without George Seifert?

Excellent point. I always thought Walsh was overrated too.

 

[Rogah]

What an ignorant post. Belicheck willfully defied the league rules that he was specifically warned against breaking. That is cheating. It tarnishes ANYTHING he will ever accomplish in his career.

You mean the same thing Jimmy Johnson admitted he did as well? Does that tarnish his 2 Super Bowls as well?

Whether we're talking about salary cap violations like the Broncos or contacting a player before he becomes a free agent like the Commanders, there are plenty of NFL teams cutting corners to get ahead. Stop being such a bitter, jealous fan and so pollyanna-ish to think this doesn't happen with 32 NFL franchises.

It's embarasses me to see so many Cowboys fans acting just like the haters who we used to make fun of.

 

[The30YardSlant]

Excellent point. I always thought Walsh was overrated too.

Good grief

 

[nathanlt]

You mean the same thing Jimmy Johnson admitted he did as well? Does that tarnish his 2 Super Bowls as well?

Whether we're talking about salary cap violations like the Broncos or contacting a player before he becomes a free agent like the Commanders, there are plenty of NFL teams cutting corners to get ahead. Stop being such a bitter, jealous fan and so pollyanna-ish to think this doesn't happen with 32 NFL franchises.

It's embarasses me to see so many Cowboys fans acting just like the haters who we used to make fun of.

You're embarassing yourself. Jimmy Johnson was not warned specifically about a rule, and then subsequently defied it. Never happened.

Bill Belicheck is despicable. If you don't think he is, go be a Patriots fan. Sounds like you already are.

 

[Rogah]

You're embarassing yourself. Jimmy Johnson was not warned specifically about a rule, and then subsequently defied it. Never happened.

Jimmy Johnson admitted on Fox NFL Sunday doing the same thing, and was a big defender of Belichick.

Bill Belicheck is despicable. If you don't think he is, go be a Patriots fan. Sounds like you already are.

I respect what they've done and I refuse to be a bitter, small minded, jealous hater. I used to make fun of those people when they attacked the Cowboys. You obviously are just another one of them, only with a different team as the focus or your irrational jealousy. If I could trade Garrett and Romo for Brady and Belichick I'd do it in a heartbeat. And so would you.

 

[SuspectCorner]

... And it's ironic you mention Bill Parcells, the most overrated coach of all time, who never won a single playoff game in his career without Bill Belichick on his staff.

And Belichick 'the Head Coach' has never won a playoff game without Tom Brady as his starter at QB. So what? I don't understand the need to elevate the Hoodie via discounting the career of his mentor, the Tuna.

During Belichicks' initial head coaching stint in Cleveland ('91-'95) he went a very unspectacular 26-44 with a single one-and-done playoff appearance. Which suggests, to me, that Head Coaching is at least slightly more challenging than coordinating only one side of the ball - and that there may have been a bit of a learning curve to overcome on the road to coaching immortality.

Every NFL HC stint the 'over-rated' Parcells has had he's elevated a foundering franchise to the playoffs within two seasons of his arrival - an NFL record FOUR different franchises (Giants, Patriots, Jets, and Cowboys), with Dallas being the only franchise he couldn't prod to at least a conference championship game. And you could make a case for his resurrection of a FIFTH franchise within two years of arrival if you counted his stint as the VP of Football Ops for the Miami Dolphins after leaving Dallas.

Attempts to discount Parcells' accomplishments due to his ties to Belichick, and vice versa, are plain goofy.

 

[SuspectCorner]

Apologies for typo in my previous post: Belichick went 36-44 during his Cleveland HC stint...

 

[Rogah]

Apologies for typo in my previous post: Belichick went 36-44 during his Cleveland HC stint...

You were also wrong when you said Belichick's single playoff appearance in Cleveland was a "one and done". He played, and beat, Bill Parcells' Patriots in those playoffs.

You're right that Dallas is the only team where didn't go to a conference championship game. By an amazing coincidence, Dallas is the only team Parcells coaches without having Belichick on the staff for a period of time.

 

[nathanlt]

Jimmy Johnson admitted on Fox NFL Sunday doing the same thing, and was a big defender of Belichick.
I respect what they've done and I refuse to be a bitter, small minded, jealous hater. I used to make fun of those people when they attacked the Cowboys. You obviously are just another one of them, only with a different team as the focus or your irrational jealousy. If I could trade Garrett and Romo for Brady and Belichick I'd do it in a heartbeat. And so would you.

Jimmy Johnson DID NOT admit to breaking a rule he was warned about. I am disappointed that Jimmy Johnson had behavior similar to Belicheck. If the Cowboys wins came outside of the rules, then their wins are tainted as well. I don't believe that spying rules were spelled out in the early 90's.

Psst. Hey. Do you want to know a secret? Before the cheating story broke, I respected the Patriots for the way they were winning. I posted that on this very board! I complimented them for not drafting thugs to their roster, not being involved in huge off the field issues, and specifically complimented them for winning in a classy way.

Then, when it was obvious that they had tainted all their wins with cheating by defying clearly spelled out rules, I scorned them. You seem to be having trouble with that concept. Apparently, you can't imagine that someone would hold honor higher than winning.

Winning at ANY cost is not honorable. So, to spell it out for you, I would NOT want Brady or Belicheck on the Dallas Cowboys, ever, ever, ever.

 

[SaltwaterServr]

Any talk of "cheating" by Belichick is just sour grapes by jealous fans. It's disappointing to see Cowboys fans acting the exact same way as the people who uesd to criticize us that we would all laugh at.

I tip my cap to what the Patriots have done in the past 10 years and I would gladly take all the controversy and criticism if we could accomplish the same in the next 10 years. And so would you and everybody else in this forum.

The hell I would. You're so far off in that statement you would miss the ocean if you were flying over the Pacific and dropped a bowling ball.

To put it another way:

[youtube]WrjwaqZfjIY[/youtube]

This thread needs to die now.

 

[nathanlt]

Despite the obvious disagreements, we can both laugh at this. There's not a better way to end this thread.

[youtube]UFfobQftP5k[/youtube]

 

[TellerMorrow34]

You're embarassing yourself. Jimmy Johnson was not warned specifically about a rule, and then subsequently defied it. Never happened.

Bill Belicheck is despicable. If you don't think he is, go be a Patriots fan. Sounds like you already are.

Oh please.

He knew it was cheating and beyond that he knew it wasn't honorable, as you seem to be so worried about when it comes to pro football coaches and their methods, to be stealing anything from another team to gain an advantage.


You're spinning it and making excuses so you don't have to admit that you don't condemn Jimmy or the Cowboys wins during his time because you've been so loud about the Patriots doing it.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

The hell I would. You're so far off in that statement you would miss the ocean if you were flying over the Pacific and dropped a bowling ball.

To put it another way:

[youtube]WrjwaqZfjIY[/youtube]

This thread needs to die now.

You wouldn't?

But you were ok with having players who cheated on their wives with strippers, snorted coke, and stabbed team mates with scissors?

So they can do all these immoral and illegal activities and you're ok with it, and loved the winning, but by God if they cross that line and cheat by video taping signals that's it! You're done!


LOL!

Please.

 

[Joe Realist]

I think when Brady hangs them up, you may see Bill B. do it as well.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I think when Brady hangs them up, you may see Bill B. do it as well.

And I wouldn't blame him. Whats left to prove? He has 3 rings as an HC right now, might get a 4th this year, and he's got a couple as an assistant and defensive coach as well.

The guy has done everything there is to do and there isn't any reason he'd have to stick around afterwards unless he wanted to.

 

[SkinsandTerps]

And I wouldn't blame him. Whats left to prove? He has 3 rings as an HC right now, might get a 4th this year, and he's got a couple as an assistant and defensive coach as well.

The guy has done everything there is to do and there isn't any reason he'd have to stick around afterwards unless he wanted to.

That he can do it without Brady to me.