How long until Belichick is considered the greatest ever?

[nathanlt]

You may be the first and last on that list. I can assure you not many here especially after what we saw this past season wouldn't take Belichick over Garrett.

Don't care. There's something to be said for winning with honor and integrity.

Who cares if you won a Super Bowl when everyone knows you cheated to get there. A hollow victory is especially empty when it's the biggest championship in professional sports.

Bill Belicheck is as "great" as Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire. *

 

[KJJ]

You gotta be on crack to take Garrett over Bill.

You might want to read my post again and do it slowly this time or have someone read it to you and explain it. I said I can assure you not many here especially after what we saw this past season wouldn't take Belichick over Garrett. In other words most "would" take Belichick over Garrett.

 

[yimyammer]

Belichick was lucky but most coaches who end up with a real special QB did so because of luck.

In a game of edges like NFL football, there will always be an element of luck but I refuse to accept the suggestion that is was merely luck (and cheating) that has lead to their continual competitiveness year in and out. Sure they were lucky to land Brady in the 6th round and Dallas was lucky GB won its last game in 1988 so Dallas could draft Troy Aikman, they're lucky Minnesota made the dumbest trade in the history of the NFL, they're lucky Emmitt fell to them and James Francis wasn't available. So luck always plays a part in a given teams success, but I don't think you can rely on luck for any amount of consistent success or to make up for bad coaching and personnel management, development and selection.

When the guy has won and competed year in and out and even went 11-5 with a back up QB who hadn't started a game since high school, I believe its more than mere luck.

That's just my opinion that has no effect on anyone or anything, but its what I'll continue to believe.

Maybe Belechick will keep coaching after Brady retires and we'll get a chance to see if he can win without Brady. Regardless of whether he does or doesn't, I'll still believe he's a pretty darn good coach. Take away the great QB from any coach and it would be pretty hard to evaluate them.

There are probably several great coaches we haven't heard about or may never hear about because the amount of luck needed didn't break for them at the right time. I can't help but wonder how Josh McDaniels would have done had he continued to coach in Denver. It appears that some of his perceived crazy picks/moves aren't looking so bad in retrospect.

 

[KJJ]

Don't care. There's something to be said for winning with honor and integrity.

Who cares if you won a Super Bowl when everyone knows you cheated to get there. A hollow victory is especially empty when it's the biggest championship in professional sports.

If what the Pats did made that much of an impact in them winning games Belichick would have been suspended and the NFL might have stripped NE of their championship.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

You might want to read my post again and do it slowly this time or have someone read it to you and explain it. I said I can assure you not many here especially after what we saw this past season wouldn't take Belichick over Garrett. In other words most "would" take Belichick over Garrett.

Why would anyone take an unproven second year coach over a proven 3x time Super Bowl winning coach?

 

[KJJ]

In a game of edges like NFL football, there will always be an element of luck but I refuse to accept the suggestion that is was merely luck (and cheating) that has lead to their continual competitiveness year in and out. Sure they were lucky to land Brady in the 6th round and Dallas was lucky GB won its last game in 1988 so Dallas could draft Troy Aikman, they're lucky Minnesota made the dumbest trade in the history of the NFL, they're lucky Emmitt fell to them and James Francis wasn't available. So luck always plays a part in a given teams success, but I don't think you can rely on luck for any amount of consistent success or to make up for bad coaching and personnel management, development and selection.

When the guy has won and competed year in and out and even went 11-5 with a back up QB who hadn't started a game since high school, I believe its more than mere luck.

That's just my opinion that has no effect on anyone or anything, but its what I'll continue to believe.

Maybe Belechick will keep coaching after Brady retires and we'll get a chance to see if he can win without Brady. Regardless of whether he does or doesn't, I'll still believe he's a pretty darn good coach. Take away the great QB from any coach and it would be pretty hard to evaluate them.

There are probably several great coaches we haven't heard about or may never hear about because the amount of luck needed didn't break for them at the right time. I can't help but wonder how Josh McDaniels would have done had he continued to coach in Denver. It appears that some of his perceived crazy picks/moves aren't looking so bad in retrospect.

I'm not one of those saying it was luck or cheating that helped the Pats win games but Brady was clearly a stroke of unbelievable luck. Brady made everyone better around him from the time he first took over at QB. Belichick saw what he had in Brady after NE's first SB win and kept bringing in pieces to compliment him.

He drafted players and and brought in FA's who fit the system. Belichick won 11 games with Matt Cassel because he had a lot of good players around him and Cassel fit the Pats system. Although Cassel played well he didn't come close to putting up the numbers Brady did and he didn't get the Pats to the playoffs. Things would have eventually gone down hill for NE had Cassel remained the Pats QB.

 

[KJJ]

Why would anyone take an unproven second year coach over a proven 3x time Super Bowl winning coach?

Dude no one would at least not if they had any sense. You might want to ask the fan who claimed he would.

 

[nathanlt]

Dude no one would at least not if they had any sense. You might want to ask the fan who claimed he would.

Yeah, lets get Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire in here as strength and conditioning coaches. They were "winners" in the strength department, right?

 

[yimyammer]

I'm not one of those saying it was luck or cheating that helped the Pats win games but Brady was clearly a stroke of unbelievable luck. Brady made everyone better around him from the time he first took over at QB. Belichick saw what he had in Brady after NE's first SB win and kept bringing in pieces to compliment him.

He drafted players and and brought in FA's who fit the system. Belichick won 11 games with Matt Cassel because he had a lot of good players around him and Cassel fit the Pats system. Although Cassel played well he didn't come close to putting up the numbers Brady did and he didn't get the Pats to the playoffs. Things would have eventually gone down hill for NE had Cassel remained the Pats QB.

Agreed (with a slight amount if doubt re Cassel since we'll never know). I kind of thought we were saying mostly the same thing, I was just posting my stream of consciousness thoughts on Belechick

 

[Cowboy Brian]

So about not winning in recent years?

 

[Hostile]

So about not winning in recent years?

You couldn't let this horrible thing die?

 

[KJJ]

Yeah, lets get Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire in here as strength and conditioning coaches. They were "winners" in the strength department, right?

I wouldn't compare Bonds and McGuire's situation with spygate.

 

[Austin 3-16]

I truly bealive if the Pats win another superbowl from here on,both he and Brady would have to be considered the G.O.A.T. Its one thing to win multiple Superbowls within dynasties like the '70s Steleers, or Montanas 49ers and the 'boys of course. As far as Im concerned the dynasty is over in New England and to win another one woule just be incredible.

 

[Cowboys&LakersFan]

So about not winning in recent years?

They still have to win a couple of more games. Slow your roll.

 

[Rogah]

Or until he wins something without Tom Brady as his QB.

Failure in Cleveland. Started awful in New England. Then Brady arrived and he turned into the GOAT.

You show me a great coach and I'll show you a guy who had a great quarterback.

 

[Rogah]

Spoken like someone who's NFL knowledge started in 2000.

Do any of these names ring a bell:

Paul Brown
Don Shula
Chuck Noll
Curly Lambeau
George Halas
Bill Walsh
Vince Lombardi

He's not close to the accomplishments of anyone listed above.

Whuh huh? How is he "not close" to any of those guys? He has as many or more championships than half the people on that list.

And Belichick is doing it during a day and age where roster turnover is running rampant. You can't keep the same 40 guys for 10 years like in the old days.

 

[Rogah]

Don't care. There's something to be said for winning with honor and integrity.

Who cares if you won a Super Bowl when everyone knows you cheated to get there. A hollow victory is especially empty when it's the biggest championship in professional sports.

Bill Belicheck is as "great" as Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire. *

Any talk of "cheating" by Belichick is just sour grapes by jealous fans. It's disappointing to see Cowboys fans acting the exact same way as the people who uesd to criticize us that we would all laugh at.

I tip my cap to what the Patriots have done in the past 10 years and I would gladly take all the controversy and criticism if we could accomplish the same in the next 10 years. And so would you and everybody else in this forum.

 

[rkell87]

Any talk of "cheating" by Belichick is just sour grapes by jealous fans. It's disappointing to see Cowboys fans acting the exact same way as the people who uesd to criticize us that we would all laugh at.

I tip my cap to what the Patriots have done in the past 10 years and I would gladly take all the controversy and criticism if we could accomplish the same in the next 10 years. And so would you and everybody else in this forum.

speak for yourself man

 

[The30YardSlant]

You show me a great coach and I'll show you a guy who had a great quarterback.

Chuck Knoll, Don Shula, Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcells. That's four of the top 10 coaches in NFL history who all won multiple Superbowls without great QB play.

 

[Rogah]

Chuck Knoll, Don Shula, Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcells. That's four of the top 10 coaches in NFL history who all won multiple Superbowls without great QB play.

Whuh huh? Chuck Noll and Don Shula each had Hall of Fame quarterbacks playing for them. In fact, Shula had 2 HoF QBs playing for him in Miami and failed to win a single title with one of them. Noll is a great example of a HC who was pretty darn mediocre in those years where he didn't have his great, Hall of Fame QB playing for him.

And it's ironic you mention Bill Parcells, the most overrated coach of all time, who never won a single playoff game in his career without Bill Belichick on his staff.