Hurst, Vea or Payne?

[CCBoy]

If I am onto Hurst...I am onto an offensive lineman.

 

[rkell87]

I don't believe there is a player in this draft that would help us more than Vea. Guys don't come that big with his athleticism that often and because of that 3-4 teams will covet him but he has the potential to be great in this Defense. Say what you will about rod as a D.C. But he's a great Dline coach and I think Vea would thrive here. Our LBs are perfect for chasing sideline to sideline but the less they have to do in the run game up the middle the better for both health of our LBs and our overall run defense. He would require a double team as soon as he gets here which leaves Irving or Lawrence singled. All of the sudden we have a very formidable front 4 with decent depth and I feel pretty good about this defense.

As for Payne I feel like he's a better Timmy Jernagen who I liked a few years ago but I'd rather not take him at 19 but maybe in a trade back.

Hurst is the Taco of this draft, he will be a good player but needs time to develop before his presence will really be felt.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hurst led all PFF defenders with the highest grade last year and was top 5 in both run stuffs and pressures last year.

Little better than 3rd down DT.

Hurst is fine if he gets penetration. He cannot anchor. In hte NFL unless he gets stronger he is going to be blown off the ball.

 

[speedkilz88]

Seattle front 4 has been very different to ours in make up though.
Guys like Alan branch, red Bryant, Brandon Mebane , ahtyba Rubin are all 310 plus

Richard would be all over Aaron Donald if available.

 

[speedkilz88]

I know people think Hurst is too light but if he lights up the Combine like Donald then he will shoot up ahead of us.

Depends on what 4-3 teams are ahead. I think most are 3-4. If Rams had not taken Donald, Cowboys likely would have gotten him, possibly a trade up. It was reported they tried.

 

[beware_d-ware]

It will be interesting to see how Hurst tests at the combine. He doesn't look very athletic moving in the open field, but he's really fast off the ball and has a crap-ton of power for his size. I bet his broad and vertical jumps will open some eyes.

 

[GroundZero1970]

None. I think we need to go wr, g or te in 1.

 

[cnuball21]

Hurst is fine if he gets penetration. He cannot anchor. In hte NFL unless he gets stronger he is going to be blown off the ball.

I've watched enough tape of him just for that reason and walked away impressed with his ability to anchor - he's not overly powerful but has great pad level and leverage.

I've seen tape with him taking on and holding ground against double teams and triple teams.

 

[unionjack8]

Richard would be all over Aaron Donald if available.

Anybody would be all over him...

 

[CCBoy]

...Hurst and Vea are different players and both make sense for the Cowboys but cases can be made against both as well at No. 19 overall. With Vea, the Cowboys have not shown an inclination to want to spend a high pick or a lot of money on a nose tackle. It’s just not Rod Marinelli’s way. Now, that could change if the Cowboys believe Vea has the characteristics to make him a three-down, dominant player.

With Hurst, he would fit with the Cowboys as a three-technique, the under tackle in Marinelli’s scheme. He is not the biggest, but he was productive. His sack total and tackle for loss total increased each season at Michigan. He is active. He is a good athlete. He can be a good fit.

One quibble I would have with this pick is the Cowboys already feel good about their three-technique in Maliek Collins. He played out of position last season after Stephen Paea was lost to a knee injury, moving to the nose tackle spot. His sack and tackle numbers dropped from his rookie year in part because of the position change and in part because of a foot injury that required surgery after the season...

http://www.espn.com/blog/dallas-cow...ch-for-cowboys-but-dont-forget-maliek-Collins

Collins and Irving should be able to handle the 3 position.

 

[kiheikiwi]

Been sayin this forever !

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I've watched enough tape of him just for that reason and walked away impressed with his ability to anchor - he's not overly powerful but has great pad level and leverage.

I've seen tape with him taking on and holding ground against double teams and triple teams.

Here he is getting hooked and driven like on skates.



Here he takes a combo block and gets rocked



Swallowed up by single blocking



Facing a double team in pass pro. Again rocked by punches



Hooked and helpless to power through/out of it

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is the opposite of anchor



OL find pancakes delicious



And on and on. It was so consistent my point I stopped. He makes a ton of plays with his first step. When he gets hooked its over.

http://draftbreakdown.com/category/defensive-tackle-2018/maurice-hurst/

Here are about 6 or 7 game videos. Show me the stacks on double teams.

 

[Sydla]

I'd probably go Vea with Hurst being a very close 2nd.

I'd be Payne, but he'd be last for me as the production didn't quite match the traits.

People fall in love with production too much.

It was lack of production that had board geniuses saying Ramsey wasn’t going to be very good in the NFL.

 

[cnuball21]

People fall in love with production too much.

It was lack of production that had board geniuses saying Ramsey wasn’t going to be very good in the NFL.

Ramsey didn't have a bunch of picks but his tape was exceptional. CBs job is to keep the other guy from getting open - and he wa really good at that. People were looking at interceptions when they should have been looking at completion percentage against, rating against, and YPA against.

 

[btcutter]

Vea and it's not close.

Hurst and Payne plays different positions. Also one very productive while other it all potential. Payne reminds me of Brockers on Rams who was also picked pretty high.

After Vea I just am not sure about either guy Hurst or Payne. Lean toward Payne because I think Collins and Irving are pretty good 3 tech. Also if they plan to keep Irving. If they draft Hurst then it tells me Irving won't be on the team after this coming season.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Vea and it's not close.

Hurst and Payne plays different positions. Also one very productive while other it all potential. Payne reminds me of Brockers on Rams who was also picked pretty high.

After Vea I just am not sure about either guy Hurst or Payne. Lean toward Payne because I think Collins and Irving are pretty good 3 tech. Also if they plan to keep Irving. If they draft Hurst then it tells me Irving won't be on the team after this coming season.

I like Payne because he can play either tackle position and disengages routinely against top competition.

 

[Oh_Canada]

I’m huge on Payne, to me his ceiling is the highest of the three and I like each of them for various reasons. Only twenty years old with elite strength and anchor and an alpha type mentality. Not quite as good as Dareus coming out but similar upside with a far better attitude.
Vea will be gone when Dallas picks.

 

[cnuball21]

Here he is getting hooked and driven like on skates.



Here he takes a combo block and gets rocked



Swallowed up by single blocking



Facing a double team in pass pro. Again rocked by punches



Hooked and helpless to power through/out of it

Just tuned in to the tape against Wisconsin:

1st play - blows into the backfield

2nd play - holds ground against run

15 seconds - beats his man and wins against the run

22 seconds - anchors against the run

32 seconds - puts OLmen on his heels and generates some pressure

43 seconds - gives up some ground against the run

1:03 - holds ground against double team

1:18 - beats block, in on the tackle

1:31 - puts G on his heels against the run

2:10 - TFL

Watched about 2 and a half minutes and saw one play at 43 seconds where it looks like he gave up some ground and didn't anchor. If we're looking big picture, the positive snaps far outweigh the negative snaps.

I played this game for his OSU tape as well, and the results were fairly similar.

Those are arguably the best OL's he played all season as well so I'm pretty sure he passed the test.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just tuned in to the tape against Wisconsin:

1st play - blows into the backfield

2nd play - holds ground against run

15 seconds - beats his man and wins against the run

22 seconds - anchors against the run

32 seconds - puts OLmen on his heels and generates some pressure

43 seconds - gives up some ground against the run

1:03 - holds ground against double team

1:18 - beats block, in on the tackle

1:31 - puts G on his heels against the run

2:10 - TFL

Watched about 2 and a half minutes and saw one play at 43 seconds where it looks like he gave up some ground and didn't anchor. If we're looking big picture, the positive snaps far outweigh the negative snaps.

I played this game for his OSU tape as well, and the results were fairly similar.

Those are arguably the best OL's he played all season as well so I'm pretty sure he passed the test.

2nd play - how do you figure? He was a gap away from the poa and was sealed from the play.

:22 Look again he got turned sideways and sealed off from the run. That is not how its done. He didn't squeeze the gap or get penetration.

1:03 He beat the double team with quickness getting to the outside shoulder of the C. That is not anchoring. And all those other plays are when he gets the OL to turn because of said quickness. That did not work against OSU at all.

The rest are him using his quickness which no one is arguing. What you also didn't argue was a single one of the plays that I pointed out.