Hurst, Vea or Payne?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

AKA - you're going by what you see on tape and no numerical data or factual numbers...I call it the eyeball test but we can call it whatever you want.

Again, stats are a poor measurement of DL performance particularly DT. It's called factual observation.

 

[cowboyec]

personally I love Hurst.
I think he is the best interior DL in the draft.
°stout vs the run
°generates relentlsess pressure
favorite tape to watch:vs Ohio St....faced CONSTANT triple teams and JUST.KEPT.COMING.
He wont come off the field either....but I dont think Vea will either.
All 3 of these cats are tremendous athletes for their size...none of them will come off the field.
2 are more of your traditional nose-Vea,Payne.
Hurst is more your 3T...more than likely the type Dallas would draft.
I think of the 3...Hurst is the better DT.....we'll see.

 

[stilltheguru88]

Y’all two trippin lol

 

[Sydla]

I get it, you've made up your mind on this guy. Moving on.

He's given examples that would refute your point.

I have the same concerns with Hurst. He's not Aaron Donald so his size is a concern for me and if he can't win on the first step, he might have trouble in the NFL IMO.

 

[Sydla]

Getting penetration, holding his ground against the run, motor, and improving as the year went along. He was a rookie. He had two sacks against Cleveland and then three more down the stretch to end the year. You ability to divide needs help and all sacks count. You don't get to cherry pick ones out.

Then of course he was excellent for the first few games of 2017 before he hurt his foot and was forced to play 1T.

He's clearly denigrating Collins because he's trying to build up the case for Hurst. That's patently obvious.

Frankly, if the Cowboys committed to playing Irving at the 3 Tech more, Hurst would ride the pine for Irving.

 

[LatinMind]

Which would you prefer, and why?

None in RD1

Vea or Payne wont be drafted because Dallas just isnt going to draft a 1Tech in round 1.

Hurst, i dont care what he does against Indiana, Purdue or Rutgers. Watch what he didnt do vs 2 teams who anually send OL to the NFL in Ohio State and Wisconsin. They dominated Hurst.

To me Hurst looks more like a undersized 1Tech. Strong for his size but still not strong enough. Sure he can get penetration on inferior talent, but against guys who he could face in the NFL? He didnt do anything. He was dominated by Billy Price when they went up in the game they played this yr. Hurst reminds me a sharrif floyd.

 

[DanA]

He's clearly denigrating Collins because he's trying to build up the case for Hurst. That's patently obvious.

Frankly, if the Cowboys committed to playing Irving at the 3 Tech more, Hurst would ride the pine for Irving.

I wouldn't call Collins' rookie year outstanding. He was good, showed a lot of promise considering he missed pre-season but I think he showed himself to be a solid starter as opposed to a star like Dak or Zeke did. More in line with Anthony Brown.

And I really think that the foot stuff is speculation. We simply don't know how much it affected him or if he just didn't have the power to play 1T and consequently suffered a sophomore slump. I think you can mount a good case that he's better than what he showed but I think you could mount a case that he'd be surpassed by a 1st round draft pick as well.

 

[cnuball21]

I wouldn't call Collins' rookie year outstanding. He was good, showed a lot of promise considering he missed pre-season but I think he showed himself to be a solid starter as opposed to a star like Dak or Zeke did. More in line with Anthony Brown.

And I really think that the foot stuff is speculation. We simply don't know how much it affected him or if he just didn't have the power to play 1T and consequently suffered a sophomore slump. I think you can mount a good case that he's better than what he showed but I think you could mount a case that he'd be surpassed by a 1st round draft pick as well.

Agreed.

Dan - curious on your thoughts on Hurst?

 

[Parcells4Life]

Why do you need Hurst if you have Irving? To me that would be s bad pick. Now if you’ve given Irving away by then, I can understand it. But to me the priority list is:

1) Vea (trade up to a 3rd to get him which you can replenish with the comp picks)
2) Hernandez (to me the offensive version of Vea)
3) Payne (Marinelli can get him to play like he did in title game conisitently)
4) trade back.

 

[Sydla]

Why do you need Hurst if you have Irving? To me that would be s bad pick. Now if you’ve given Irving away by then, I can understand it. But to me the priority list is:

1) Vea (trade up to a 3rd to get him which you can replenish with the comp picks)
2) Hernandez (to me the offensive version of Vea)
3) Payne (Marinelli can get him to play like he did in title game conisitently)
4) trade back.

If Irving is your 3 Tech with Collins, then yeah, you don't really need Hurst. But Marinelli loves his "flexibility" and he loves him the guys with motors. I think Hurst is going to be a guy he's going to push for.

 

[cnuball21]

Why do you need Hurst if you have Irving? To me that would be s bad pick. Now if you’ve given Irving away by then, I can understand it. But to me the priority list is:

1) Vea (trade up to a 3rd to get him which you can replenish with the comp picks)
2) Hernandez (to me the offensive version of Vea)
3) Payne (Marinelli can get him to play like he did in title game conisitently)
4) trade back.

Irving played every spot on the line last year, and could continue to eat a ton of snaps all across the line as depth.

If the team feels great about him and wants him to be the every down 3T though, I could understand the hesitation in going 3T early.

 

[Carter]

Hurst is the prototype Marinelli Pick. Undersized Tweener DT. I would be fine with it. Much better than Collins or the other guys we have at 3 Tech. Highly coachable, never injured, huge Motor.

Give up the Idea of Dallas drafting a Run Only Plugger like Vea or Payne. These guy dont get drafted by Dallas let alone the First Round. People are expecting a true 1 Tech early each year and Dallas never takes one.

I wouldnt be suprised if Dallas takes a WR in Round 1 especially with the Talks about Dez being cut.

We dont have a true #1 Receiver anymore and T-Will will never become that.

 

[Sydla]

Hurst is the prototype Marinelli Pick. Undersized Tweener DT. I would be fine with it. Much better than Collins or the other guys we have at 3 Tech. Highly coachable, never injured, huge Motor.

Give up the Idea of Dallas drafting a Run Only Plugger like Vea or Payne. These guy dont get drafted by Dallas let alone the First Round. People are expecting a true 1 Tech early each year and Dallas never takes one.

I wouldnt be suprised if Dallas takes a WR in Round 1 especially with the Talks about Dez being cut.

We dont have a true #1 Receiver anymore and T-Will will never become that.

If Irving is the 3 Tech, it's debatable that Hurst, a guy who has never taken a NFL snap, is better.

 

[Paintrain4978]

Hurst is the prototype Marinelli Pick. Undersized Tweener DT. I would be fine with it. Much better than Collins or the other guys we have at 3 Tech. Highly coachable, never injured, huge Motor.

Give up the Idea of Dallas drafting a Run Only Plugger like Vea or Payne. These guy dont get drafted by Dallas let alone the First Round. People are expecting a true 1 Tech early each year and Dallas never takes one.

I wouldnt be suprised if Dallas takes a WR in Round 1 especially with the Talks about Dez being cut.

We dont have a true #1 Receiver anymore and T-Will will never become that.

Have you watched Vea? If you had there is no way you could call him just a run plugger.

 

[Rayman70]

Which would you prefer, and why?

Payne,PERIOD. Level of Competition,consistency was high,athletic freak,well rounded and still has room for improvement. NOT RAW as the other 2 mentioned might be. He is a guy that was doubled game in game out and still made plays. He is one quick powerful dude that knows how to use his hands,feet, and leverage. Much like Collins,but already better. Line those 2 cats up side by side with DLaw on one edge,and Irving/Taco/ host of others,and we would have a nice rotation up front and would solve the issues we have had up the middle of the Defense for like 15 years now. Pass rush is great..but if you are soft up the gut you will be exposed at playoff time by a good team. Look at Philly for example. They were strong in the middle and had the right pieces around Cox. Thats the template(THE TRENCHES). Give me Payne all day. Its basically choosing a "known" commodity over potential in Vea and Hurst. Rather have the known all day.

 

[speedkilz88]

Payne,PERIOD. Level of Competition,consistency was high,athletic freak,well rounded and still has room for improvement. NOT RAW as the other 2 mentioned might be. He is a guy that was doubled game in game out and still made plays. He is one quick powerful dude that knows how to use his hands,feet, and leverage. Much like Collins,but already better. Line those 2 cats up side by side with DLaw on one edge,and Irving/Taco/ host of others,and we would have a nice rotation up front and would solve the issues we have had up the middle of the Defense for like 15 years now. Pass rush is great..but if you are soft up the gut you will be exposed at playoff time by a good team. Look at Philly for example. They were strong in the middle and had the right pieces around Cox. Thats the template(THE TRENCHES). Give me Payne all day. Its basically choosing a "known" commodity over potential in Vea and Hurst. Rather have the known all day.

Hurst by far was the more productive DT. Every scout out there will tell you Payne is an underachiever. That if he was the guy that played in the national championship he's going to be great. But the guy all season long isn't.

 

[kiheikiwi]

There is a great article up on blogging the boys right now about this very subject - I surgest you all go read it (or someone who knows how please link it here).
Puts it better that we can.
And I agree 100 % with the article ...

 

[cnuball21]

Payne,PERIOD. Level of Competition,consistency was high,athletic freak,well rounded and still has room for improvement. NOT RAW as the other 2 mentioned might be. He is a guy that was doubled game in game out and still made plays. He is one quick powerful dude that knows how to use his hands,feet, and leverage. Much like Collins,but already better. Line those 2 cats up side by side with DLaw on one edge,and Irving/Taco/ host of others,and we would have a nice rotation up front and would solve the issues we have had up the middle of the Defense for like 15 years now. Pass rush is great..but if you are soft up the gut you will be exposed at playoff time by a good team. Look at Philly for example. They were strong in the middle and had the right pieces around Cox. Thats the template(THE TRENCHES). Give me Payne all day. Its basically choosing a "known" commodity over potential in Vea and Hurst. Rather have the known all day.

You reference his consistency and ability to make plays...just curious what you're basing that off of? Plays behind the LOS? Tackles?

 

[Rayman70]

Hurst by far was the more productive DT. Every scout out there will tell you Payne is an underachiever. That if he was the guy that played in the national championship he's going to be great. But the guy all season long isn't.

Guess its in the eye of the beholder. Payne will never wow anyone,but he just plays consistent and stays on the field. Availability is also a good trait to have. Sky is the limit for him.If we pick a Dlineman at 19 I will be shocked. I think we are going OLINE honestly at 19.I keep hearing Will Hernandez or Orlando Brown. Only way we dont is if one of the top 10 guys drop big time. I can see Us drafting a linebacker like Smith or Edmunds at 19 if one of them slides,which is prolly not likely. Linebacker or Oline at 19...its a lock.

 

[Rayman70]

You reference his consistency and ability to make plays...just curious what you're basing that off of? Plays behind the LOS? Tackles?

Stays healthy and requires double teams. Not gonna show up in the stat sheet but just goes about his business and allows others to make plays while he occupies 2 guys. Thats a big deal. From time to time he flashes as well.