I am backing Wade, but stats dont lie...

[superpunk]

He is an adequit blocker, but his receiveing skills so out pace anyone else that combined, he is the best. If he is not the best, then why did he peers vote him All-Pro? All-Pro means that you are the best at your position!

Players do not vote the all-pro team. The associated press does.

 

[stilltheguru]

I am a huge cowboy fan but are yall arguing whether gates is better than witten?HAHAHAHAHAHA

Gates is by far better than Witten im sorry but its true.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He is an adequit blocker, but his receiveing skills so out pace anyone else that combined, he is the best. If he is not the best, then why did he peers vote him All-Pro? All-Pro means that you are the best at your position!

The premise of this discussion was predicated on how each player is used with respect to there offenses. My contention is that Gates is not used as a ball control type TE. To take that a step further, all of this is with respect to our defense and how we might be able to help them, through offense. My point being that if we can limit our TOs and play ball control offense, then we have a very good opportunity to be succesful with Phillips' style of defense. To break it down even further, if we can move the chains, using a good running game, a nice short to intermediate passing game with TO and Witten, then we can effectively control clock and limit opportunities from opposing offenses to attack our defense. I surmised that neither KC nor San Diego had the kind of physical advantage we had, in a short ball control type passing game, that we had with TO and Witten. Sure, both San Diego and KC have great TEs but not in terms of running the kind of offense I hoped to see out of us. IE, strong blocking out of the TE and physical move the chains type pass catching ability in the short passing game. The question was never one of "is Gates or Gonzales great?" That goes without saying. They are great at what they are asked to do. Just not great, IMO, in what I would hope we use to try and assist our defense this year. Long story, I know but I get the feeling that the original points to this discussion kinda went by the boards and I was all of a sudden talking about stuff that was never the point of the conversation.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I am a huge cowboy fan but are yall arguing whether gates is better than witten?HAHAHAHAHAHA

Gates is by far better than Witten im sorry but its true.

I do not believe that he is. As a pass catching TE, Gates is probably the best in the game right now. However, as a complete package, I believe Witten is the best TE in football. If you put Gates in our offense and ask him to do the kinds of things we ask Witten to do, he would not be succesful IMO. If you put Witten in San Diego's offense and ask him to do the things they ask Gates to do, I think he would be more succesful then would Gates in ours but I don't believe that he would be able to do the same kinds of things Gates can do. There different. Each is suited to a different style of game. Personally, I like the more complete TE as opposed to the pass catching TE only. I think it gives you more flexability. If I'm going to use a TE as a dominant receiver, I'd rather go three wide, as opposed to using a pass catching TE. I just like that better but thats just me.

 

[bayarealightning]

However, as a complete package, I believe Witten is the best TE in football.

If you put Gates in our offense and ask him to do the kinds of things we ask Witten to do, he would not be succesful IMO.

If you put Witten in San Diego's offense and ask him to do the things they ask Gates to do, I think he would be more succesful then would Gates in ours but I don't believe that he would be able to do the same kinds of things Gates can do.

Gates can work the middle, the sidelines, the post, the corner, and the seam. Period. I know that this is your opinion, but outside of Cowboys fans, who else shares this opinion? Your entitled to it, but most people do not see it as reality. I have nerver heard anyone suggest that Witten is the best at his position. Gonzalez/Gates, Gates/Gonzalez. Gates is doing things that no TE has done in the history of the game and he is entering his 5th season. Witten is a very good TE, but he is not the best.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Gates can work the middle, the sidelines, the post, the corner, and the seam. Period. I know that this is your opinion, but outside of Cowboys fans, who else shares this opinion? Your entitled to it, but most people do not see it as reality. I have nerver heard anyone suggest that Witten is the best at his position. Gonzalez/Gates, Gates/Gonzalez. Gates is doing things that no TE has done in the history of the game and he is entering his 5th season. Witten is a very good TE, but he is not the best.

So you believe that Gates can do the blocking job required in our offense from the TE and work the short middle, IE, play the very physical game required to catch balls under the LBs consistantly? I'm not saying just once in a while, I'm saying over the long haul. Season after season and hold up? I think a great many perhaps. I don't think there's any question, Witten is the more complete TE. I take nothing away from Gates. As I said earlier, he's probably the best pass catching TE in the league but he could not do what we ask of our TEs in the Dallas offense, IMO.

 

[juck]

its crazy how many turns a thread can take,lol.

 

[theebs]

The guy is 6'5" and 265 lbs. He is too fast for LBs and too BIG for Safeties. there is nothing on the field in the passing game that he cannot do. Period! Gates is the only TE in the history of the game to have 3 consecutive years with double digit TDs and just missed out last year playing with a new starting QB.

Bay area lightning I happen to agree with you that Gates is the best in the game. Having said that though.

Witten is also 6"5 265! Same as gates. He is much more physical however.

and witten is in the record books also, in 04 he had 87 catches 11th most in nfl history only 5 tight ends have ever caught more balls in a season than him, they are winslow, newsome, christiansen, gonzales and ben coates.

Also in 04 and 05 he had 65 + catch seasons back to bak for only the 11th time in league history.

He is extremely clutch, going into the 06 season 101 of his 188 career grabs were for a first down.

Gates is a freak athlete, I dont think I would want any other player in the league in the redzone, maybe moss. He is just flat out great, but witten is no slouch either!

 

[bayarealightning]

Bay area lightning I happen to agree with you that Gates is the best in the game. Having said that though.

Witten is also 6"5 265! Same as gates. He is much more physical however.

and witten is in the record books also, in 04 he had 87 catches 11th most in nfl history only 5 tight ends have ever caught more balls in a season than him, they are winslow, newsome, christiansen, gonzales and ben coates.

Also in 04 and 05 he had 65 + catch seasons back to bak for only the 11th time in league history.

He is extremely clutch, going into the 06 season 101 of his 188 career grabs were for a first down.

Gates is a freak athlete, I dont think I would want any other player in the league in the redzone, maybe moss. He is just flat out great, but witten is no slouch either!

Trust me, I said that Witten is a very good TE. I have nothing against Witten and in no way was I inferring that Witten is a slouch. They entered the league at the same time and they have close numbers except in a couple of areas. Some posters can say that Gates is not a great blocker, but that is about it.

 

[theebs]

Trust me, I said that Witten is a very good TE. I have nothing against Witten and in no way was I inferring that Witten is a slouch. They entered the league at the same time and they have close numbers except in a couple of areas. Some posters can say that Gates is not a great blocker, but that is about it.

I hear ya. I just wanted to get those stats out there!!!!! They were in my head from reading them yesterday!!!!!!!

and yea I know you never said that, I was just re-emphasizing that witten and gates are both outstanding.

Gates ability to get off his feet and catch the ball is incredible. He is the best redzone player in the league, there isnt even a close second!

 

[Vintage]

Gates can work the middle, the sidelines, the post, the corner, and the seam. Period. I know that this is your opinion, but outside of Cowboys fans, who else shares this opinion? Your entitled to it, but most people do not see it as reality. I have nerver heard anyone suggest that Witten is the best at his position. Gonzalez/Gates, Gates/Gonzalez. Gates is doing things that no TE has done in the history of the game and he is entering his 5th season. Witten is a very good TE, but he is not the best.

Please, let me clean your statement up...

Outside of ABQCowboy, people think Gates is better than Witten...

Not Cowboys fans...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Please, let me clean your statement up...

Outside of ABQCowboy, people think Gates is better than Witten...

Not Cowboys fans...

I suppose that could be true, but for our team, I'd rather have Witten. Of course, I'm certain you would rather have Gates and never look back.

 

[bayarealightning]

Please, let me clean your statement up...

Outside of ABQCowboy, people think Gates is better than Witten...

Not Cowboys fans...

I sit corrected. However, Witten is a fine player and production is all that counts and the kid produces. I could mention another TE in your division who gets all of the hype, but does not give the production. If we were talking QBs as an example, Witten would be in the Carson Palmer/Drew Brees class. That speaks volumes.

 

[tomson75]

I sit corrected. However, Witten is a fine player and production is all that counts and the kid produces. I could mention another TE in your division who gets all of the hype, but does not give the production. If we were talking QBs as an example, Witten would be in the Carson Palmer/Drew Brees class. That speaks volumes.

I'm glad someone outside the NFC east can see through Shockey's guise. I was just over on Extremskins and most of those nitwits have Shockey and Cooley as the two best TE's in the NFC. Don't get me wrong, both are good players, but neither are elite players in my opinion.

That being said, I'm pretty excited about the talk of Witten playing downfield more...if our Oline holds up this could be a good year. Last year was pretty frustrating with Witten always playing underneath the LB's. Thankfully Barber stepped it up.

 

[28 Joker]

Gates can work the middle, the sidelines, the post, the corner, and the seam. Period. I know that this is your opinion, but outside of Cowboys fans, who else shares this opinion? Your entitled to it, but most people do not see it as reality. I have nerver heard anyone suggest that Witten is the best at his position. Gonzalez/Gates, Gates/Gonzalez. Gates is doing things that no TE has done in the history of the game and he is entering his 5th season. Witten is a very good TE, but he is not the best.

Enjoyed your posts and inside perspective on Gates. I won't say Witten is better than Gates, because I don't think it really matters. I would take both of them, and I am very happy with Witten. Witten played with his jaw wired shut after a cheap shot by some punk Cardinal. That told me nothing would stop him from becoming a great player.

Witten doesn't work the sidelines, but he is very good at all the other routes you listed above.

Dallas is going to go after Darren McFadden. Maybe the two teams will meet in the Super Bowl in 2008. There would be great match-ups at almost every position.

 

[jobberone]

Witten is a better blocker. Gates is a better receiver. Where I think Gates gets over Witten is in red zone production. Granted we didn't go to the TE like SD did but some of that is Gates is so great down there. Even Witten said that's the one area he needs to improve on the most.

It's always more glamorous to catch TDs and put up big numbers. Gates does more than Witten there. It's less glamorous to make big blocks. We don't see them a lot of the time.

Gates gets my nod but its not by much. If Witten's TDs go up in the red zone there will be little difference in those two.

Sounded like a 'butter-parquet' commercial. Maybe like a '100 megaton bomb is much better than a 90 megaton bomb'.

 

[28 Joker]

Your point about the red zone is true. Garrett is going to try and improve him down there. Witten had a great year in 2004 when Glenn was injured. Witten was the offense. Julius Jones chipped in at the end.

Gates is a monster in the red zone. I am glad he didn't play against us in
2005. We missed Merriman as well.

Witten can score more in the redzone. Romo will get it to him.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

If I wanted to move the chains, I'm picking LT over anybody else to. However, Gates is a small part of that equation IMO. I mean, if your giving me my options, then yeah, I'll take LT and you can pretty much have the rest. I'll get a so, so TE to fill in. Unfortunatly, I don't think you can give me that option so you have to look at other ways to do it. For us, it's use of the TE and Owens to the middle of the field.

Gates helps open up running lanes for LT by stretching the field, and being very good at it

 

[khiladi]

and San Diegos Defense in all aspects wasnt much better than ours last year.Just look at nfl.com stats page.They actually allowed a good deal of points.The offense is what made them 14-2.Maybe Wades style will work with us better.

So what? They also scored like 40 points a game at least 4 times, scored 30 almost as many times, and the upper twenties just the same... They blew teams out, meaning teams were playing catch-up with them...

one thing I noticed, when SD gave up points, it seemed to be in a bunch... for example, one quarter they would give up two TDs, and than play really good...

 

[TEK2000]

My how some threads can take a turn that veers them in a direction that is nowhere near that of the original topic.