Rogerthat12
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I doubt we are players for Suh, however, as I have learned with Jerrah, never say never!
I have a feeling Suh is a Cowboy by early Tuesday morning; feeling must have been gas pains
- Thread starter BiffWellingtonIII
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Zekeats
theranchsucks
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But McClain is RKG?
AsthmaField
Outta bounds
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Normally, I'm against signing expensive free agents, but I'm not against bringing Suh in. He has a lot going for him in my mind:
1. Age. He is just coming into his prime and could play out an entire contract without putting dead money at the end on his team. This is one of my biggest gripes about going expensive in free agency. Julius Peppers is a guy that fits this category and why I didn't want Dallas to sign him (or Ware) last year. Most of the expensive free agents that actually do see true free agency are going into their third contract and are past their prime. Their original team signed them to their second contract and, for lack of a better term, they used up the players prime years and now that he's on the downside, are letting him go somewhere else.
In Suh's case though, the only reason he is seeing the light of day in free agency is because the original team who signed him simply screwed up royally, and can't afford to franchise him to keep it from happening. Almost never do we see a guy who is flat out dominant and entering his prime, out on the open market. It simply doesn't happen unless something goes really wrong.
2. He is a driven individual. A huge problem with really big contracts is that it is human nature to relax when you have arrived. Think of a guy like Haynesworth here. He got all his guaranteed money and frankly, I don't think he gave a **** after that. Huge problem for any team paying big dollars to a guy like that.
Suh, however, is a driven player. He loves to play, goes 100 MPH all the time, is aggressive (almost to a fault) and simply isn't a guy you have to worry about him coasting after getting paid. One of the biggest reasons for me not liking to spend big in free agency is a non-factory with Suh.
Michael Irvin wouldn't have caused anyone to wonder if he was giving 100%. Emmitt Smith was a guy you didn't have to worry about after he got paid. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, JJ Watt... they all give everything they have to the game, even after getting a big payday. Suh is in that category.
3. He plays a premier position in an attacking 43 defense. I would never want Dallas to spend huge on a 43 LB or on a Safety. They simply don't impact the game enough from those spots and even if you got the best play at that position, it wouldn't help you win a lot.
However, DT in Marinelli's scheme is a premier spot and dominance there can change the entire complexion of the defense. An elite push up the middle in Marinelli's unit collapses the pocket and the DE's suddenly start hitting the QB instead of getting pushed by him as he steps up in the pocket. The DB's are then having to cover less and the LB's are starting to have free runs as the ball carrier because the DL is keeping them clean.
4. Attitude is contagious in football; particularly on defense. When a player is dominant and other player's hate playing against him and other coaches hate game planning around him... his team mates know it. If a player is physically a bad *** and has a nasty, bad *** attitude, the entire unit starts to take on that persona. We have seen it time and again in football. From Mean Joe Greene and Deacon Jones to James Harrison, Charles Haley, and Ray Lewis.
Not only would the talent level on the defense rise dramatically (has there ever been a bigger difference between two players than from Hayden to Suh), but the defense would get even more swagger than they were starting to already get last year. Rolando McClain gave the defense some attitude and swagger... just add Suh to that mix and the defense would jump about 10 notches.
5. He would be a legitimate weapon for Marinelli. Rod is hands down one of the best, most creative defensive coordinators in football and last season he did an amazing job making chicken **** into chicken salad. Give him Suh to tinker with and to situationally move up and down the line and it could be explosive. Crawford is looking like a really good player and having Suh next to him would open up a world of possibilities for Marinelli.
Like I started this post with... I'm against spending big in free agency on one guy because almost never do you have all of what I just listed in one free agent. Suh has it all though. An opportunity like this is extremely rare. To get a dominant player, who is just entering his prime, at a position that is catalytic in your scheme, and he has the drive and attitude that all defensive coaches want, is something that just doesn't happen.
People have been comparing Suh as a free agent to Reggie White as a free agent. Nobody should let that go in one ear and out the other because they have an awful lot in common on the open market. Philly screwed up because free agency was in its infancy back then and Green Bay paid big money for him, particularly for back then. Detroit screwed up on his contract and the only way he was going to stay in Detroit was if he didn't want to test the open market.
Well, he does.
The thing that gets me about everyone saying they don't want to pay big money for Suh is that had Dallas been lucky enough to pick second overall in 2010, Dallas very well could have drafted Suh. Had they and he was just about to become a free agent, everyone and their brother would be saying that Dallas must resign him. And you know what? Dallas would too. They would do him similar to how they did Tyron Smith and lock him up long-term, because he is similar to Smith in that you don't have to worry about him coasting during games. He is in the top 2 at his position in the entire NFL, loves football, is in his prime, and changes the way offenses would play against the Dallas defense.
So the fans and the team would be ok signing him if Dallas had drafted him but since they didn't, they don't want to pay to have him on their team?
Seems strange.
As for myself... like I said, I'm usually strongly against doing it, but I look at Suh as a golden opportunity to add an elite player on the most important unit on defense. A unit that just coincidentally needs big-time help all up and down it. We got Dez in 2010 and now there is a chance to get Suh on the team with no compensation paid draft pick wise.
It almost never happens and because it is a rarity, I don't think the Cowboys should have a cavalier attitude about the chance to add an elite player for no cost. They'd sign him if they drafted him... they should look at it almost the same now.
Having said all of that, I think the chances of him ending up in Dallas are pretty slim. There will be too much competition for him because of all I just mentioned and with Dallas wanting to be reasonable in free agency, I don't see them entering a bidding war for him.
I agree with the Cowboys free agency strategy... I just think that they should look at this chance as an exception to the rule and a great chance to add elite level talent in its prime at no cost in draft picks.
It does concern me that I am somewhat agreeing with BiffWellington though. That made me strongly reconsider my position.
1. Age. He is just coming into his prime and could play out an entire contract without putting dead money at the end on his team. This is one of my biggest gripes about going expensive in free agency. Julius Peppers is a guy that fits this category and why I didn't want Dallas to sign him (or Ware) last year. Most of the expensive free agents that actually do see true free agency are going into their third contract and are past their prime. Their original team signed them to their second contract and, for lack of a better term, they used up the players prime years and now that he's on the downside, are letting him go somewhere else.
In Suh's case though, the only reason he is seeing the light of day in free agency is because the original team who signed him simply screwed up royally, and can't afford to franchise him to keep it from happening. Almost never do we see a guy who is flat out dominant and entering his prime, out on the open market. It simply doesn't happen unless something goes really wrong.
2. He is a driven individual. A huge problem with really big contracts is that it is human nature to relax when you have arrived. Think of a guy like Haynesworth here. He got all his guaranteed money and frankly, I don't think he gave a **** after that. Huge problem for any team paying big dollars to a guy like that.
Suh, however, is a driven player. He loves to play, goes 100 MPH all the time, is aggressive (almost to a fault) and simply isn't a guy you have to worry about him coasting after getting paid. One of the biggest reasons for me not liking to spend big in free agency is a non-factory with Suh.
Michael Irvin wouldn't have caused anyone to wonder if he was giving 100%. Emmitt Smith was a guy you didn't have to worry about after he got paid. Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, JJ Watt... they all give everything they have to the game, even after getting a big payday. Suh is in that category.
3. He plays a premier position in an attacking 43 defense. I would never want Dallas to spend huge on a 43 LB or on a Safety. They simply don't impact the game enough from those spots and even if you got the best play at that position, it wouldn't help you win a lot.
However, DT in Marinelli's scheme is a premier spot and dominance there can change the entire complexion of the defense. An elite push up the middle in Marinelli's unit collapses the pocket and the DE's suddenly start hitting the QB instead of getting pushed by him as he steps up in the pocket. The DB's are then having to cover less and the LB's are starting to have free runs as the ball carrier because the DL is keeping them clean.
4. Attitude is contagious in football; particularly on defense. When a player is dominant and other player's hate playing against him and other coaches hate game planning around him... his team mates know it. If a player is physically a bad *** and has a nasty, bad *** attitude, the entire unit starts to take on that persona. We have seen it time and again in football. From Mean Joe Greene and Deacon Jones to James Harrison, Charles Haley, and Ray Lewis.
Not only would the talent level on the defense rise dramatically (has there ever been a bigger difference between two players than from Hayden to Suh), but the defense would get even more swagger than they were starting to already get last year. Rolando McClain gave the defense some attitude and swagger... just add Suh to that mix and the defense would jump about 10 notches.
5. He would be a legitimate weapon for Marinelli. Rod is hands down one of the best, most creative defensive coordinators in football and last season he did an amazing job making chicken **** into chicken salad. Give him Suh to tinker with and to situationally move up and down the line and it could be explosive. Crawford is looking like a really good player and having Suh next to him would open up a world of possibilities for Marinelli.
Like I started this post with... I'm against spending big in free agency on one guy because almost never do you have all of what I just listed in one free agent. Suh has it all though. An opportunity like this is extremely rare. To get a dominant player, who is just entering his prime, at a position that is catalytic in your scheme, and he has the drive and attitude that all defensive coaches want, is something that just doesn't happen.
People have been comparing Suh as a free agent to Reggie White as a free agent. Nobody should let that go in one ear and out the other because they have an awful lot in common on the open market. Philly screwed up because free agency was in its infancy back then and Green Bay paid big money for him, particularly for back then. Detroit screwed up on his contract and the only way he was going to stay in Detroit was if he didn't want to test the open market.
Well, he does.
The thing that gets me about everyone saying they don't want to pay big money for Suh is that had Dallas been lucky enough to pick second overall in 2010, Dallas very well could have drafted Suh. Had they and he was just about to become a free agent, everyone and their brother would be saying that Dallas must resign him. And you know what? Dallas would too. They would do him similar to how they did Tyron Smith and lock him up long-term, because he is similar to Smith in that you don't have to worry about him coasting during games. He is in the top 2 at his position in the entire NFL, loves football, is in his prime, and changes the way offenses would play against the Dallas defense.
So the fans and the team would be ok signing him if Dallas had drafted him but since they didn't, they don't want to pay to have him on their team?
Seems strange.
As for myself... like I said, I'm usually strongly against doing it, but I look at Suh as a golden opportunity to add an elite player on the most important unit on defense. A unit that just coincidentally needs big-time help all up and down it. We got Dez in 2010 and now there is a chance to get Suh on the team with no compensation paid draft pick wise.
It almost never happens and because it is a rarity, I don't think the Cowboys should have a cavalier attitude about the chance to add an elite player for no cost. They'd sign him if they drafted him... they should look at it almost the same now.
Having said all of that, I think the chances of him ending up in Dallas are pretty slim. There will be too much competition for him because of all I just mentioned and with Dallas wanting to be reasonable in free agency, I don't see them entering a bidding war for him.
I agree with the Cowboys free agency strategy... I just think that they should look at this chance as an exception to the rule and a great chance to add elite level talent in its prime at no cost in draft picks.
It does concern me that I am somewhat agreeing with BiffWellington though. That made me strongly reconsider my position.
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Baed on what exactly?
speedkilz88
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I'm pretty sure Reggie White couldn't be franchised because he was one of the original lawsuit plaintiffs for free agency. So eagles didn't have a choice.
Stash
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I will respectfully, but totally disagree. No one will be more shocked than me if this team has anything to do with Ndamakung Suh.
BiffWellingtonIII
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STOP saying we cannot afford Suh - um yes we can ... we can move Carr money , Romo money, Witten money and Tyron Smith money around ....
Money is not the issue - the issue is the one and done ...because IF we do sign Suh, we most likely have a few bucks left for a mid range RB and our draft picks...
Money is not the issue - the issue is the one and done ...because IF we do sign Suh, we most likely have a few bucks left for a mid range RB and our draft picks...
BiffWellingtonIII
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David Moore - DMN
AsthmaField
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Yeah, I meant they were similar in dominance at their position and in that they were in their prime and on the open market. Since White went to GB there have been few defensive guys in free agency that were dominant and still in or just starting their prime.
Tabascocat
Dexternjack
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As much as I want him here, it might not be a wise decision in the long run....starting a few years from now. That would be another huge contract on top of Romo, Smith, Dez? and whoever else will demand top dollar(Fred and Martin maybe).
If Dallas is in that 2 year window to win a SB, then by all means go all in and sign him but this team will be hurting cap-wise sooner than later IMO.
If Dallas is in that 2 year window to win a SB, then by all means go all in and sign him but this team will be hurting cap-wise sooner than later IMO.
Crad|e
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AsthmaField is 100% accurate. Were talking about a very rare opportunity to make us a contender. After watching us last year w basically no pass rush or push up the middle.. have a chance at Suh would do wonders for us.
People say we have other holes to fill... but our entire dline would become a force w Suh. We need him IMO.
People say we have other holes to fill... but our entire dline would become a force w Suh. We need him IMO.
HanfordDixon
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I have a feeling you have no clue how the Cowboys operate.
RonSpringsdaman20
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never say never, but I don't think this is the move.
nathanlt
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I wouldn't want Suh on the team, even if he was willing to take the vet minimum. He's an exceptionally dirty player, to the point that he is criminally liable for the cheap shots he makes after the play is over. NO WAY!
LittleD
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Doesn't matter if we could find a way to afford him or not. He's not on Dallas' radar and he's not coming to Dallas period.
Keep looking for players in the bargain bin and you'll sleep better at night.
Suh is Albert Haynesworth reincarnated...Bad news!
LittleBoyBlue
Redvolution
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