I'm getting crucified over Phillips...

[iceberg]

You've assumed and made up a lot of things.

Again, why are you making such a big deal over the fact Jerry is heavily involved with assembling the coaching staff?

what i'm saying for the terminally dense (it seems) is simply that because jones kept (2) coaches on staff, that's not meddling. as for your posturing that parcells built his own staff, i'm gonna steal one of hos's posts on the topic.

Coaches from Campo's 2002 staff.
Bucky Buchanan, Assistant Equipment Manager
Mike McCord, Equipment Manager
Joe Avezzano, Special Teams
Joe Juraszek, Strength and Conditioning
Steve Hoffman, Kicking/Quality Control
Tony Ollison, Assistant Strength and Conditioning
Bennie Wylie, Assistant Strength and Conditioning
Wes Chandler, Wide Receivers
Frank Verducci, Offensive Line
Galen Hall, Running Backs
Bill Bates, Defensive Nickel Package/Special Teams
Jim Maurer, Head Athletic Trainer
Britt Brown, Associate Athletic Trainer
Greg Gaither, Assistant Athletic Trainer
Greg Seamon, Tight Ends/Quality Control
Andre Patterson, Defensive Tackles
Jim Jeffcoat, Defensive Ends
Wade Wilson, Quarterbacks
Clancy Pendergast, Secondary
Gary Gibbs, Linebackers
Bruce Coslet, Offensive Coordinator
Mike Zimmer, Defensive Coordinator

Coaches from Parcells' 2003 staff.
Mike McCord, Equipment Manager
Bucky Buchanan, Assistant Equipment Manager
Bruce DeHaven, Special Teams
Joe Juraszek, Strength and Conditioning
Steve Hoffman, Kicking/Quality Control
Tony Ollison, Assistant Strength and Conditioning
Lance Walker, Assistant Strength and Conditioning
David Lee, Offensive Assistant
Mike MacIntyre, Assistant Secondary
Britt Brown, Associate Athletic Trainer
Greg Gaither, Assistant Athletic Trainer
Kacy Rodgers, Defensive Tackles
John McNulty, Wide Receivers
Jim Jeffcoat, Defensive Ends
Jim Maurer, Head Athletic Trainer
George Warhop, Offensive Line
Tony Sparano, Tight Ends
Gary Gibbs, Linebackers
Sean Payton, Assistant Head Coach/Quarterbacks
Maurice Carthon, Offensive Coordinator
Mike Zimmer, Defensive Coordinator

parcells inherited a lot more than (2) didn't he? how come this is ok but it's NOT ok now?

this is the reeking bias that makes these senseless arguments continue.

 

[VA Cowboy]

what i'm saying for the terminally dense (it seems) is simply that because jones kept (2) coaches on staff, that's not meddling. as for your posturing that parcells built his own staff, i'm gonna steal one of hos's posts on the topic.

Coaches from Campo's 2002 staff.
Bucky Buchanan, Assistant Equipment Manager
Mike McCord, Equipment Manager
Joe Avezzano, Special Teams
Joe Juraszek, Strength and Conditioning
Steve Hoffman, Kicking/Quality Control
Tony Ollison, Assistant Strength and Conditioning
Bennie Wylie, Assistant Strength and Conditioning
Wes Chandler, Wide Receivers
Frank Verducci, Offensive Line
Galen Hall, Running Backs
Bill Bates, Defensive Nickel Package/Special Teams
Jim Maurer, Head Athletic Trainer
Britt Brown, Associate Athletic Trainer
Greg Gaither, Assistant Athletic Trainer
Greg Seamon, Tight Ends/Quality Control
Andre Patterson, Defensive Tackles
Jim Jeffcoat, Defensive Ends
Wade Wilson, Quarterbacks
Clancy Pendergast, Secondary
Gary Gibbs, Linebackers
Bruce Coslet, Offensive Coordinator
Mike Zimmer, Defensive Coordinator

Coaches from Parcells' 2003 staff.
Mike McCord, Equipment Manager
Bucky Buchanan, Assistant Equipment Manager
Bruce DeHaven, Special Teams
Joe Juraszek, Strength and Conditioning
Steve Hoffman, Kicking/Quality Control
Tony Ollison, Assistant Strength and Conditioning
Lance Walker, Assistant Strength and Conditioning
David Lee, Offensive Assistant
Mike MacIntyre, Assistant Secondary
Britt Brown, Associate Athletic Trainer
Greg Gaither, Assistant Athletic Trainer
Kacy Rodgers, Defensive Tackles
John McNulty, Wide Receivers
Jim Jeffcoat, Defensive Ends
Jim Maurer, Head Athletic Trainer
George Warhop, Offensive Line
Tony Sparano, Tight Ends
Gary Gibbs, Linebackers
Sean Payton, Assistant Head Coach/Quarterbacks
Maurice Carthon, Offensive Coordinator
Mike Zimmer, Defensive Coordinator

parcells inherited a lot more than (2) didn't he? how come this is ok but it's NOT ok now?

this is the reeking bias that makes these senseless arguments continue.

I've stated Jerry choose to retain Sparano and Bowles and that he hired Garrett and Dat. How many coaches did he hire for BP? I never said BP brought in a whole new staff. I said Jerry is more involved now that the last four years with making staffing decisions.

 

[VA Cowboy]

Another lie, nowhere in that were we talking about drafts, you are making that up

The reason I put Smith on that list was due to SD's personnel decisions that last few years while he's been there.

It's funny how you just catch onto Ice's little catch phrase and make this up about me making things up.

Discussing things with you guys is like a flashback to junior high.

 

[iceberg]

I've stated Jerry choose to retain Sparano and Bowles and that he hired Garrett and Dat. How many coaches did he hire for BP? I never said BP brought in a whole new staff. I said Jerry is more involved now that the last four years with making staffing decisions.

but he's not doing ANYTHING now he didn't do when BP got here. yet somehow bp had total control and phillips is being told what to do.

you single out keeping (2) coaches as a sign of meddling. i point out many coaches retained and you call it NOT meddling?

make up your mind as to what meddling is. it can't be meddling just cause jones does it - but that's what you're trying to have us believe.

 

[iceberg]

The reason I put Smith on that list was due to SD's personnel decisions that last few years while he's been there.

It's funny how you just catch onto Ice's little catch phrase and make this up about me making things up.

Discussing things with you guys is like a flashback to junior high.

feel free to grow up.

 

[VA Cowboy]

but he's not doing ANYTHING now he didn't do when BP got here. yet somehow bp had total control and phillips is being told what to do.

See, I think the problem we keep having is you keep making false accusations. These thread could be a lot shorter if you just stuck to the facts.

you single out keeping (2) coaches as a sign of meddling. i point out many coaches retained and you call it NOT meddling?.

No. I pointed out that Jerry kept two coaches and hired Garrett and Dat.

Here's something that may help you in the future:

 

[iceberg]

See, I think the problem we keep having is you keep making false accusations. These thread could be a lot shorter if you just stuck to the facts.



No. I pointed out that Jerry kept two coaches and hired Garrett and Dat.

Here's something that may help you in the future:

so jones keep sprano and bowles, you call that meddling.

why is it NOT meddling when ~50% of the staff was kept when parcells came on board?

you seem to imply parcells "ok'd" them all but phillips had them forced upon him.

that's what i don't get cause you twist things around. you want to quit being misunderstood, talk common sense and quit blithering whatever comes across your mind at the time. it simply doesn't hold up when you try to be fair to jones.

OF WHICH you have no intention of doing, hence the different set of rules you apply at your own will.

hence, the confusion.

i comprehend fine - you just don't like the fact people see through your hate and don't find you at all logical.

 

[VA Cowboy]

so jones keep sprano and bowles, you call that meddling.

why is it NOT meddling when ~50% of the staff was kept when parcells came on board?

that's what i don't get cause you twist things around. you want to quit being misunderstood, talk common sense and quit blithering whatever comes across your mind at the time.

If Jerry forced BP to keep certain coaches, then I fully agree it was meddling. But I don't know how many if any he was forced into keeping. But if he was, then I don't agree with it.

Right now I know of 2 coaches who were kept by Jones. These two are also rumored to be the leading candidates for both coordinator positions. Also know that he hired Garrett and am as positive as I can be that Dat was his decision also.

I don't know what is so confusing about that. How is that twisting things? I've stated this from the get-go.

i comprehend fine - you just don't like the fact people see through your hate and don't find you at all logical.

If that were the case, then you'd never come up with a statement of how I said BP had "total control".

 

[iceberg]

If that were the case, then you'd never come up with a statement of how I said BP had "total control".

i've talked to you enough to know it would be a waste. i've presented your verbiage back at you time and again in the jones meddling thread and you ignored 'em.

you know it, i know it. now let's just move on with it.

 

[zrinkill]

Discussing things with you guys is like a flashback to junior high.

You mean you were wrong all the time back then as well?

 

[iceberg]

If Jerry forced BP to keep certain coaches, then I fully agree it was meddling. But I don't know how many if any he was forced into keeping. But if he was, then I don't agree with it.

and my point is - you don't KNOW if bowles and sprano are not "ok'd" by wade, yet you carry on as if it's all forced.

you don't KNOW if parcells had it forced or not, but that's not an issue for you. the only things that seem to be an issue is anything that will allow you to paint jones as the meddling bad guy.

when pushed you back off and get reasonable. we all know and agree jones can and has meddled in the past.

we don't know that now yet you push anything you can that he's doing that now w/sprano and bowels. when we show you evidence if it being common practice, you then "well i don't KNOW for a fact if..."

how can you *KNOW* now and call it fact?

you can't. that's all any of us are really saying.

 

[bbgun]

Inside the mind of a Jerry apologist (the short version):

1) If it flatters Jerry, it's the truth.
2) If it doesn't, it's a lie.
3) Anything that passes through Jerry's lips is as good as gold. Jerry never fibs or spins things to his advantage. Those tears he shed were real. Question this and you're a hater. Jerry did not fire Jimmy. It was a mutual parting of the ways. After all, Jerry said so, and Jerry is not capable of lying.
4) Dallas-area media types (aka "mediots") are liars, even when Norv feeds longtime friends some inside information. That Norv would say one thing for public consumption and leak something else (i.e. the truth) to his friends is beyond their comprehension.
5) "Jerry" and "the Cowboys" are synonymous. An attack on one is an attack on both. Only Dallas haters would attack King Jerry or point out that no other team would hire him to be their GM.
6) It is not enough to merely disagree with another forum member. You must do so in the most obnoxious, bile-spitting, condescending manner possible. Your target's intelligence and intentions must be questioned and ridiculed.
7) Always claim that the "facts," no matter how dubious or self-serving, are on your side.
8) Stalk certain posters and then accuse them of being "obsessed" with you if they dare take your bait.

And so on.

 

[iceberg]

Inside the mind of a Jerry apologist (the short version):

1) If it flatters Jerry, it's the truth.
2) If it doesn't, it's a lie.
3) Anything that passes through Jerry's lips is as good as gold. Jerry never fibs or spins things to his advantage. Those tears he shed were real. Question this and you're a hater. Jerry did not fire Jimmy. It was a mutual parting of the ways. After all, Jerry said so, and Jerry is not capable of lying.
4) Dallas-area media types (aka "mediots") are liars, even when Norv feeds longtime friends some inside information. That Norv would say one thing for public consumption and leak something else (i.e. the truth) to his friends is beyond their comprehension.
5) "Jerry" and "the Cowboys" are synonymous. An attack on one is an attack on both. Only Dallas haters would attack King Jerry or point out that no other team would hire him to be their GM.
6) It is not enough to merely disagree with another forum member. You must do so in the most obnoxious, bile-spitting, condescending manner possible. Your target's intelligence and intentions must be questioned and ridiculed.
7) Always claim that the "facts," no matter how dubious or self-serving, are on your side.
8) Stalk certain posters and then accuse them of being "obsessed" with you if they dare take your bait.

And so on.

not sure who you're trying to address, bbboy, but we've all railed on jones before for his bad decisions and meddling.

but that doesn't mean that's what he's doing now as some would have you believe.

it's not this "black/white" scenario you're trying to paint now - no, it's not. but when someone goes into overdrive to slam jones and doesn't use consistant logic, yea, that bugs some of us and we just wanna see consistancy in how you come to your conclusions. in this instance it doesn't matter WHO we're talking about, just that we apply good/bad the same to everyone regardless of our own desired outcome of facts/events.

 

[VA Cowboy]

One thing I think we can all agree on is that boards like that SUCK...

this board if only the Jerry apologists were allowed to post in here... I wouldn't like ANY board that specified one line of thought as "correct"...

I missed this earlier... I agree.

 

[Hostile]

Over on another board, I've been threatened with a "ban", been called every vile name in the book, and have been accused of being "on drugs" and being "from another planet" because of my opinion about the Phillips/Garrett hirings.

I think I've located the problem for you.

 

[VA Cowboy]

when someone goes into overdrive to slam jones and doesn't use consistant logic, yea, that bugs some of us and we just wanna see consistancy in how you come to your conclusions.

Is this directed at me?

If so, how is saying Jerry hired a couple of assistants and retained a couple of others and is heavily involved in assembling the staff considered a slam?

 

[iceberg]

Is this directed at me?

If so, how is saying Jerry hired a couple of assistants and retained a couple of others and is heavily involved in assembling the staff considered a slam?

if this is all you say, then no problem. but you then push it around to say it's bad. you say "jones is forcing coaches on phillips" when you have on clue is that's truly the case or not.

i understand the bad feelings towards jones, i really do. but with TO i put aside the hoopla and try to see what happens to him vs. around him.

i can't say jones is meddling AGAIN *FOR SURE* when all he is doing is what all owners/gm's have done in the past.

you do this a lot - you push things out to an extreme during the course of discussion and when you can't answer some of your own implications, you dull it down a lot.

"all i said was jones was doing things like he used to do".

you resimplify it when during the course of discussion you make what he's doing forced, implying wade is nothing more than a yes man.

we don't know yet. you, me, ANYONE IN HERE.

only most of us are willing to say that and stand by it. not imply it, then push to BAD JERRY then back down to the generic opinion when it gets nasty.

IS JERRY WRONG/MEDDLING for keeping bowles and sprano on staff?

no long drawn out insults, tirades, or answers - just give us a yes/no and we can go from there.

 

[BigDFan5]

The reason I put Smith on that list was due to SD's personnel decisions that last few years while he's been there.

It's funny how you just catch onto Ice's little catch phrase and make this up about me making things up.

Discussing things with you guys is like a flashback to junior high.

anyone reading the thread and clicking that link will clearly see there was no discussion of draft abilitites, and for you to say thats what you meant is a lie. Sorry

 

[VA Cowboy]

anyone reading the thread and clicking that link will clearly see there was no discussion of draft abilitites, and for you to say thats what you meant is a lie. Sorry

Sorry. You're wrong.

 

[iceberg]

Sorry. You're wrong.

figures. you ignore my direct question.

is jones wrong/meddling for keeping sprano and bowles on staff?

yes/no.