Interesting Julius Jones news

[conner01]

it does'nt matter what we think, but it sure looks like bill has no intentions of making barber the starter. he keeps talking about him being the closer and i think he will keep him in that role no mater who the rb is.
i would'nt be opposed to trading him for a high 2nd if there was someone on the board at the time you could replace him with but i think it would be real dumb to trade him untill you know you got a guy to replace him and 1000 yd backs at 17 carries per game are'nt that common.
i don't think this draft has alot of rb's who will be there in the 2nd who are all that impressive.

 

[Alexander]

They offer no analysis of their own

So looking at rushing average per carry is "analysis"?

Let's hear your hard-hitting in depth analysis about why Jones is failing to hit the proper holes as our coach has pointed out. Care to explain why he is leaving yardage on the field?

If Curtis Martin were the starter and averaging 3.5, would you be calling him ordinary, too, and screaming for his head? Sorry to say, I think you would.

David.

How can you possibly compare a back like Martin to Jones?

Martin carried the ball full-time. His curve is going to decline as he fatigued. He also had every single defense he played gearing up for him. He finished his runs and rarely went down at first contact.

Can you say the same thing about Jones? No.

If you are looking for "quality of running back" on a Parcells-coached team, Jones isn't it. Right now, he isn't close to the level of Martin and really isn't even as dangerous as Joe Morris was. I am sure that confuses many who had him pegged for super stardom his rookie season, but that's the reality.

Again, blame the coach's philosophy for the player's failure to execute. That seems to be a popular theme around here.

 

[MrMom]

How can you possibly compare a back like Martin to Jones?

Martin carried the ball full-time. His curve is going to decline as he fatigued. He also had every single defense he played gearing up for him. He finished his runs and rarely went down at first contact.

Can you say the same thing about Jones? No.

Exactly.

Defeneses feared Martin. Defenses fear MBIII (Take Antonio Pearce's comment, when he said their D respected Barber as a runner moreso than Jones). Do defenses fear JJ? No.

 

[superpunk]

it does'nt matter what we think, but it sure looks like bill has no intentions of making barber the starter. he keeps talking about him being the closer and i think he will keep him in that role no mater who the rb is.
i would'nt be opposed to trading him for a high 2nd if there was someone on the board at the time you could replace him with but i think it would be real dumb to trade him untill you know you got a guy to replace him and 1000 yd backs at 17 carries per game are'nt that common.
i don't think this draft has alot of rb's who will be there in the 2nd who are all that impressive.

I think Bush is pegged by alot to be a second rounder. Probably not as low as we're picking.

I think we could find a back in a JuCo to do what Julius is doing for us right not. He had nearly 500 yards in his first 5 games - that's tough to replace. 500 in the next 9 is not so difficult, even at his 15 carry per game average over that span.

 

[dwmyers]

I bought the typical Parcells stuff for a while, and he really does stress not losing yardage. Julius does that, even if there's not much there, he's not getting caught in the backfield that often. But there is a problem with Julius, now. If there is a lane to the outside, he can't see it or get there. If he does, an arm-tackle is enough to bring him down. If there's a huge cutback lane, he can't see it or get there, if he does....rinse and repeat. Parcells is not coaching him to do that. Parcells is coaching him to do what he did in this year's first 5 or so games. Not the woefully sub-par (even for a Parcells back) performance we've seen the last 9 games.

Superpunk, if the claim is that Julius is _not_ a power back, I'd agree. I analyzed the Senior Bowl that JJ played in, a tape based play-by-play breakdown, and it was pretty obvious he wasn't the kind of guy to break tackles at all. He was so lacking in power that I thought him a middle round draft pick at best. That he ended up a 2nd round pick surprised me.

But getting back to that game, there was a play where JJ exploded into the tackler and knocked him out. Yes, he goes down easily, but he's not a total "*****" either.

Now, again, you keep claiming his performance is "sub-par". JJ is a scat back, mind you. He's not going to grind out 3 yards every time. His play style is more like .. Gale Sayers or Barry Sanders. His 4 yards will come from a bunch of 2 yard gains and a big gain. That's just the way it is.

The stats show that his game /isn't/ sub-par at all. It may look awkward and clumsy but overall it's pretty damned respectable for a Parcells back. It was 2233 What's His Name that said the guy is getting 3.9 YPC the last 9 games.

That's a *good* average for a starting Parcells running back. Further, unless you're Curtis Martin at the peak of your career (and in a good year), the guys who get the *most* yards in a Parcells offense -are small fast backs-. No one is going to confuse Joe Morris or Dave Meggett for Jim Brown.

One of the reasons I'm not so keen on this "get rid of JJ and play MB3 exclusively" is also that BP tends to break the "370 carry rule", if he runs one back largely. The odds that he'd get one (maybe 2) good seasons out of MB3 and then he'd be ruined forever are pretty high if he keeps running the back that much.

I think the tandem keeps both backs healthy. I think running one exclusively will be to the physical detriment of that player. BP wrecked Joe Morris. Do we want to run one guy, and get one good season out of him instead of ten good ones in rotation?

David.

 

[Smith22]

Every day I'm thankful that Parcells passed on Steven Jackson and took JJ.

Every day that passes I'm thankful that my Cowboys actually value draft picks.:laugh1:

 

[superpunk]

Superpunk, if the claim is that Julius is _not_ a power back, I'd agree. I analyzed the Senior Bowl that JJ played in, a tape based play-by-play breakdown, and it was pretty obvious he wasn't the kind of guy to break tackles at all. He was so lacking in power that I thought him a middle round draft pick at best. That he ended up a 2nd round pick surprised me.

But getting back to that game, there was a play where JJ exploded into the tackler and knocked him out. Yes, he goes down easily, but he's not a total "*****" either.

Now, again, you keep claiming his performance is "sub-par". JJ is a scat back, mind you. He's not going to grind out 3 yards every time. His play style is more like .. Gale Sayers or Barry Sanders. His 4 yards will come from a bunch of 2 yard gains and a big gain. That's just the way it is.

The stats show that his game /isn't/ sub-par at all. It may look awkward and clumsy but overall it's pretty damned respectable for a Parcells back. It was 2233 What's His Name that said the guy is getting 3.9 YPC the last 9 games.

That's a *good* average for a starting Parcells running back. Further, unless you're Curtis Martin at the peak of your career (and in a good year), the guys who get the *most* yards in a Parcells offense -are small fast backs-. No one is going to confuse Joe Morris or Dave Meggett for Jim Brown.

One of the reasons I'm not so keen on this "get rid of JJ and play MB3 exclusively" is also that BP tends to break the "370 carry rule", if he runs one back largely. The odds that he'd get one (maybe 2) good seasons out of MB3 and then he'd be ruined forever are pretty high if he keeps running the back that much.

I think the tandem keeps both backs healthy. I think running one exclusively will be to the physical detriment of that player. BP wrecked Joe Morris. Do we want to run one guy, and get one good season out of him instead of ten good ones in rotation?

David.

I like the system. And the numbers are fine, considering Parcells history - I fully agree. But over the last 9 games, taking away that 77 yarder, which is obviously an anomoly, he's averaging 3.2. And I could probably even deal with that, since it's a legit average in Parcells system. But when watching the game, I see Julius not taking the yards that are there.

He's not averaging 3.2 because the line can't block or because Parcells wants him to. He's averaging 3.2 because he's leaving yardage out there. There were at least two situations where he had holes open for double-digit runs last sunday, and he couldn't get to the hole, and he went down with an arm-tackle. When those opportunities are there, you have to capitalize.

 

[Alexander]

He's not averaging 3.2 because the line can't block or because Parcells wants him to. He's averaging 3.2 because he's leaving yardage out there. There were at least two situations where he had holes open for double-digit runs last sunday, and he couldn't get to the hole, and he went down with an arm-tackle. When those opportunities are there, you have to capitalize.

Precisely.

As for the Sayers/Sanders comparisons, they may have had negative carries but they made up for it with big runs.

So when is Jones going to start doing that? His biggest run was against New Orleans with a hole big enough to drive a semi-through. That's what he does. He can pop a big run when the hole is obvious. If he has to track his blocking and make a decision, he flounders. That is one of the main reasons why he is indeed playing average football right now.

It is also a reason he only has five runs in excess of 20 yards, while Barber has four on 125 fewer carries. I am still waiting for the Sayers/Sanders quality to come out.

Barber makes the best of each carry. Jones does not. It is that simple.

 

[CactusCowboy]

1000 yard backs dont grow on trees, this is not Madden on your Playstation.

It only takes 60+ yards a game to do 1000, not a great barometer of a great back anymore.

 

[dwmyers]

I like the system. And the numbers are fine, considering Parcells history - I fully agree. But over the last 9 games, taking away that 77 yarder, which is obviously an anomoly, he's averaging 3.2.

He's a scat back. His yards come in chunks. His ability to hit a "home run" is precisely what is keeping him in the starting lineup. You can no more ignore his long TD runs than you can ignore Marion Barber's blocking skills. They're part of the package.

JJ isn't a big back. He's not Duane Thomas, Calvin Hill, Herschell Walker. But taken in context, this "mid round draft choice" is giving Parcells starting back performance levels.

As far as the "he's not performing as well as he could", I wasn't at the game and I'll defer to what you saw. But I do suspect a lot of the criticism is a product of Barber's excellent performance. There are some people who think irrationally that Marion Barber is going to get 5.0+ YPC if they make a starter out of him.

They said the same thing about Darren Hambrick a while back.



David.

 

[superpunk]

He's a scat back. His yards come in chunks. His ability to hit a "home run" is precisely what is keeping him in the starting lineup. You can no more ignore his long TD runs than you can ignore Marion Barber's blocking skills. They're part of the package.

JJ isn't a big back. He's not Duane Thomas, Calvin Hill, Herschell Walker. But taken in context, this "mid round draft choice" is giving Parcells starting back performance levels.

As far as the "he's not performing as well as he could", I wasn't at the game and I'll defer to what you saw. But I do suspect a lot of the criticism is a product of Barber's excellent performance. There are some people who think irrationally that Marion Barber is going to get 5.0+ YPC if they make a starter out of him.

They said the same thing about Darren Hambrick a while back.



David.

I don't believe Marion could continue that production at all. I was a big advocate of not changing, at least not now, and I still feel that way. But if those holes keep getting opened, and Julius continues to not get into them, something has to be done.

If you get a chance to watch the game again, the two plays are very easy to see. On one, he bounces it right, which appears to be the correct read, but he can't get wide enough and is taken down with an arm. On the other, a gigantic cutback lane was open back to the left. Julius saw it again, but he couldn't get into it fast enough or hard enough, and another arm tackle took him down. One arm, both times. For a guy as muscle-bound as he is, this is inexplicable to me.

I've had high hopes for Julius, and if we were getting those legit scat-back carries maybe once every other game, it would be something. But he can't even manage a 20-yarder every other game at this point. It's discouraging to me.

 

[Alexander]

His ability to hit a "home run" is precisely what is keeping him in the starting lineup.

Care to explain why he hasn't hit more "home runs" then?

In order to hit a home run, you have to be able to pick the right hole and explode through it. He is not doing that this year.

 

[DipChit]

But I do suspect a lot of the criticism is a product of Barber's excellent performance. There are some people who think irrationally that Marion Barber is going to get 5.0+ YPC if they make a starter out of him.

David.

Some people think that way I guess. Others think MB is perfectly suited to do what he's doing and that shouldnt change... but it's all about Jones just being ordinary as hell for an extended period of time now.

Heck even BP pointed it out the other day.. "I need to get him on track somehow" yada yada. That doesnt sound like someone who is getting just basically what he wants out of the guy.

 

[theogt]

Too many people like to post a stat and claim their argument, but get upset when someone doesn't agree. Go figure.

 

[TtownCowboy]

We'll find out in free-agency or in the draft next year. If BP puts him on the trading block at the draft like it is reported he did last year, I guess that answers all the questions about what BP thinks about him and or replacing him.

 

[kartr]

I found this on the Eagles/Cowboys preview page over on Fox Sports website under player news.......

Julius Jones (DAL - RB)

News: The Cowboys may dangle Julius Jones on the trade market this off-season.

Impact: Marion Barber's emergence makes Jones somewhat expendable. Bill Parcells likes having two quality backs, however, and they would probably only let go of Jones for a second-round pick or higher.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/gameTrax?gameId=20061225006

No way, Barber doesn't have the speed to be a starter. He's a change of pace back. I'd rather trade Barber instead.

 

[2233boys]

So basically anybody we pick in the bottom of the draft will be an instant upgrade over JuJo. Since JuJo is going to end the season with probably 1100+ yards, that is going to be some pick.

1300-1500 yard back in the bottom of the first is what your plan is.....WOW

Yeah because I said that.

Jones isn't working out, I know, I know, you bought his jersey and his bobbel head doll and have 100 of his rookie cards and you want him to pan out. You know what I would love for him to pan out, thus far he hasn't proved to be anything more than average. Time for a change.

 

[2233boys]

There are a lot of professional cynics here. They offer no analysis of their own, they just yap like little dogs about things that bother them. Scoffing is an art form by some people, like you and theogt, and that's fine. It's what entertains you.

Just don't claim the running numbers support the assertion that JJ is an average back. I've posted numbers in this thread; it isn't the first time I have. I've been analyzing Parcells running backs since his first campaign, because it made no sense to me why the YPC numbers for a BP starter are so low, and the quality of running back so high.

If Curtis Martin were the starter and averaging 3.5, would you be calling him ordinary, too, and screaming for his head? Sorry to say, I think you would.

David.

If you think JJ has been anything more than average this year you aren't very bright.

 

[Alexander]

No way, Barber doesn't have the speed to be a starter. He's a change of pace back. I'd rather trade Barber instead.

Given the fact your idol had to get sprung from jail recently, pardon me if I don't find your analysis all that worthwhile.

 

[2233boys]

He's a scat back. His yards come in chunks. His ability to hit a "home run" is precisely what is keeping him in the starting lineup. You can no more ignore his long TD runs than you can ignore Marion Barber's blocking skills. They're part of the package.

JJ isn't a big back. He's not Duane Thomas, Calvin Hill, Herschell Walker. But taken in context, this "mid round draft choice" is giving Parcells starting back performance levels.

As far as the "he's not performing as well as he could", I wasn't at the game and I'll defer to what you saw. But I do suspect a lot of the criticism is a product of Barber's excellent performance. There are some people who think irrationally that Marion Barber is going to get 5.0+ YPC if they make a starter out of him.

They said the same thing about Darren Hambrick a while back.



David.

No they didn't, some morons said it about Troy Hambrick, but I never recall anyone claiming Darren Hambrick should switch from LB to take over for Emmitt.


As to your first point, his yrds came in his first 5 games, since then pretty much nothing except for the run vs the Saints. He has been nothing but below average for more than half the season.