Is it time to declare Claiborne a bust?

[CyberB0b]

Uhm, no. I would count KC, Stl, The 2nd half against Denver, Wash, Philadelphia, Detroit, New York (2nd game), and Philly again as games he played well in. That's 7.5 of 10, including the final 5 and a half games (from Denver on). It's stupid to continue to criticize a player if you're unwilling to recognize improvement.

He improved so much that he was put on the bench, right?

“I think it’s probably a combination,” Garrett said. “Technically, you go back at each of the completions against him and you say, ‘Hey, you should do this. You should do that.’ But I also think confidence, playing that position, is critical. And usually those two things work hand in hand.

“When you’re playing technically sound and you have ability, you tend to have more and more confidence because you’re in the right place. They went to him too much in this ballgame, and they were too effective. He’s just got to play better, and he will play better.”

 

[jnday]

Uhm, no. I would count KC, Stl, The 2nd half against Denver, Wash, Philadelphia, Detroit, New York (2nd game), and Philly again as games he played well in. That's 7.5 of 10, including the final 5 and a half games (from Denver on). It's stupid to continue to criticize a player if you're unwilling to recognize improvement.

Do you really gave to cherry pick to find some decent playing time from Mo? Next it will be that he played great one series in two games in the second quarter, with three minutes left before halftime. Yeah, it is hard to make sense with that example, but it is harder to make sense of all his imagined improvement while losing his starting job and grading out as one of the worst CBs in the league.

 

[Kevinicus]

Do you really gave to cherry pick to find some decent playing time from Mo? Next it will be that he played great one series in two games in the second quarter, with three minutes left before halftime. Yeah, it is hard to make sense with that example, but it is harder to make sense of all his imagined improvement while losing his starting job and grading out as one of the worst CBs in the league.

It takes more cherry picking to find his bad gsmes than it does his good ones. Final 5.5 games played...that's called a trend sir.

 

[SportsGuru80]

Year three... Put up or else.

 

[jnday]

It takes more cherry picking to find his bad gsmes than it does his good ones. Final 5.5 games played...that's called a trend sir.

Did you miss the post by Amber earlier in this thread that had the stats that showed just how bad the guy played? There is no arguing with those facts.

 

[Ratmatt]

It's bad enough they don't value their draft picks enough,and they throw them around to move here,and there in the draft.When that guy you moved around for doesn't turn out,well that's a nightmare.After saying all that,I'm not willing to give up on claiborne yet.

 

[TheDude]

Why? He walked in, wrote his name and walked out. How does that prove he is not very bright?

He wrote in crayon and misspelled his name

#rimshot

 

[Idgit]

Starting snaps is a horrible measuring stick because it says nothing about how well the player was actually playing.

Alan Ball gave a few teams "starting snaps".

Nearly every player taken in the top 10 will give their team starting snaps on opening day, many of whom will ultimately be labeled busts.

Top 10, and especially top 5 picks are given every opportunity to show that they can't play before finally being tossed out.

Even with starting snaps if his play doesn't improve he will be a bust. Nobody's spending Top 5 picks for mediocre play.

If he starts and contributes his rookie contract, he's not a bust. He can not be a bust and still be a disappointment, as I've said earlier.

Alan Ball is a bad comparison, but he also was not a bust. It's a matter of expectations, and many fans simply have unreasonable expectations. It's easier when things are all-or-nothing. Easier, and innaccurate.

And we all expect Claiborne to improve. Just as we're all disappointed in his development to-date. And we'll all be bummed if he doesn't.

 

[CyberB0b]

If he starts and contributes his rookie contract, he's not a bust. He can not be a bust and still be a disappointment, as I've said earlier.

Alan Ball is a bad comparison, but he also was not a bust. It's a matter of expectations, and many fans simply have unreasonable expectations. It's easier when things are all-or-nothing. Easier, and innaccurate.

And we all expect Claiborne to improve. Just as we're all disappointed in his development to-date. And we'll all be bummed if he doesn't.

If all we get out of him is a part time player, who isn't a starter, that is a big bust for a #6 overall that we traded up to get. Hopefully, he improves, but judging from his body of work thusfar, that is unlikely.

 

[Idgit]

If all we get out of him is a part time player, who isn't a starter, that is a big bust for a #6 overall that we traded up to get. Hopefully, he improves, but judging from his body of work thusfar, that is unlikely.

I disagree that improvement is unlikely. Also that busts are judged relative to draft position. A higher draft position decreases the likelihood the player will not be a bust. It doesn't mean fans should reasonably expect superstars from all top ten picks. Just looking at previous drafts will tell you how foolish that exercise is.

I also don't think Claiborne ends up a part time player. He had issues with strength and health last season. He's got a lot of potential.

 

[CyberB0b]

I disagree that improvement is unlikely. Also that busts are judged relative to draft position. A higher draft position decreases the likelihood the player will not be a bust. It doesn't mean fans should reasonably expect superstars from all top ten picks. Just looking at previous drafts will tell you how foolish that exercise is.

I also don't think Claiborne ends up a part time player. He had issues with strength and health last season. He's got a lot of potential.

He's had issues with strength and health since before he was drafted. I think he had a wrist injury going into the draft.

Judging from your criteria, guys like Ryan Leaf and Tony Mandarich weren't busts, but they are generally regarded as two of the biggest in the history of the league.

 

[Kevinicus]

Did you miss the post by Amber earlier in this thread that had the stats that showed just how bad the guy played? There is no arguing with those facts.

PFF is not a stat.

 

[LOBO7]

No. Just needs a little confidence and a defensive line.

 

[burmafrd]

not surprised at the knee jerk defense shown by some. Bottom line is that he has not performed even CLOSE to a level of the 6th Pick in the Draft. LET ALONE WHAT WE GAVE UP TO GET HIM.

 

[Doomsay]

I disagree that improvement is unlikely. Also that busts are judged relative to draft position.

I think that the term "Bust" is only relevant to draft position. It's an opportunity cost vs. performance measure. 7th rounders can never be "Busts" because they cost nothing, in terms of draft value.

As far as improvement, I don't know what the turnaround % is for previously underachieving CB's in their third season, it certainly is one of the more difficult positions to master at the pro-level. Mo's injury situation and scheme dislocation might have been legitimate reasons for lack of performance, in which case, there might be reason for optimism, on the other hand, his lack of physicality might also just be a perpetual problem.

 

[Hoofbite]

If he starts and contributes his rookie contract, he's not a bust. He can not be a bust and still be a disappointment, as I've said earlier.

Alan Ball is a bad comparison, but he also was not a bust. It's a matter of expectations, and many fans simply have unreasonable expectations. It's easier when things are all-or-nothing. Easier, and innaccurate.

And we all expect Claiborne to improve. Just as we're all disappointed in his development to-date. And we'll all be bummed if he doesn't.

I mentioned Alan Ball to point out that you can suck but still be starting.

If all you need to do is start, how is any Top 10 pick ever a bust?

JaMarcus Russell gave starting snaps.

 

[Idgit]

not surprised at the knee jerk defense shown by some. Bottom line is that he has not performed even CLOSE to a level of the 6th Pick in the Draft. LET ALONE WHAT WE GAVE UP TO GET HIM.

Passive aggressive much this morning? Other than that, you're not saying anything I have said, explicitly, in this thread. More than once.

And, for the record, what is it you think we gave up that equates to more than the value of the sixth pick in the draft again? Because by my math, we spent exactly the sixth pick in the draft to take him, and, if anything, the trade up to that spot was an affordable one.

 

[CF74]

No..........

 

[Idgit]

I mentioned Alan Ball to point out that you can suck but still be starting.

If all you need to do is start, how is any Top 10 pick ever a bust?

JaMarcus Russell gave starting snaps.

I didn't say 'any starts' I said starts and contributes during his rookie contract. Mo's just finished year two. If he's not a regular starter at the end of his deal, he's obviously a bust. But that's not what's happening with him, and that's not his trajectory and, even if it were, he's still only going into his third camp it's too early to say he's busted.

But we've both been around long enough to know there are Cowboys fans who considered Marcus Spears a bust his entire career here. And Anthony Spencer. And Felix Jones. Mike Jenkins. I've even heard Terrence Newman referred to as a bust. That's because these players underperformed relative to expectations.

Now, the term 'bust' is subjective, so we're not going to be able to agree on a definition everybody accepts. I'm saying, for my part, if you get a first-contract starter with a pick, it's not a bust. If you get a quality role player, it's not a bust. If you get a guy who can't find a home on your team where he can play snaps even in a specialty role, and can't find one somewhere else, he's a bust. Otherwise, you've got a pick that underperformed expectations but who still fills a role you'd otherwise have to pay someone else to fill. There are a ton of players in that boat, and Mo Claiborne so far is definitely one of them. So is Bruce Carter. So was Miles Austin and Demarcus Ware last season. It doesn't mean the players are actually getting extra credit for simply holding down a starting job in the NFL. It only means that they weren't completely busted picks.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yeth and no.

While Wonderlic's questions are not directly related to the game, it do measure critical thinking, judgment and molecular brain function ( I think). Therefore and ipso factorum, his thinking and ability to grasp concepts is important and crucial and stuff as to learning schemes.
I feel dizzy writing this much above my menal level.

But he do seem to be a bust, like much of our secondary.

BS, there are many players who were well below the avg who were great players Dan Marino did not score high yet Ryan Fitspatrick posted one the highest. Fitspatrick may be a lot smarter off the field than Marino but when it comes to football and knowledge of how to play the game to make quick reads and figure out what is taking place Fits does not even come close. Wonderlic proves nothing on the field, saying he can't learn, it is football not rocket science I know that is hard for people here to figure this out. Funny fans who have never played at that level seem to know more than guys who do it for a living, Claiborne knows and understand the game, he has been injured and that test proves nothing.