Is it time to declare Claiborne a bust?

[jnday]

You are just making things up. You can't point to his play to support your opinion.

Losing his starting job is a good indicator that he wasn't playing well.

 

[Hoofbite]

Not at all. The words mean different things.

A bust can't play in this league. That's definitely not the case with Claiborne. He's struggled with strength for press coverage, and with health somewhat. But he's shown potential and given us plenty of starting snaps.

Listen to what Scandrick has to say about him sometime.

That's a pretty low bar to set to say that they have to be bad enough to where they just can't play.

Bobby Carpenter was an absolute bust and he's played like 6-7 seasons.......which I guess would make him not a bust?

Claiborne can still turn it around but his play will have to improve significantly to avoid being a bust at the end of his rookie deal.

 

[Idgit]

That's a pretty low bar to set to say that they have to be bad enough to where they just can't play.

Bobby Carpenter was an absolute bust and he's played like 6-7 seasons.......which I guess would make him not a bust?

Claiborne can still turn it around but his play will have to improve significantly to avoid being a bust at the end of his rookie deal.

Well, I was specifically talking about playing starters' snaps there. I think it's an important distinction. Busts don't give you starts, and they don't even excel in key roles (they way, say, Desmond Howard ended up doing at one point). They just can't play. Claiborne gives us quality snaps--both as a starter and even last year, when he missed time due to injury and was replaced in the starting lineup, in reserve. There was a notable difference in what we did on the back end with Mo out and what we were able to do with a third man-cover CB when he was in.

He's nowhere near a bust, and it's too soon to tell, anyway. Claiborne's going to get starters snaps in this league, both in Dallas and after if he's not extended at the end of his rookie contract. The issue with Claiborne is people were expecting him to play at a very high level, and he has not. He's been a very average player as a press CB, and he's missed time and gets bullied by strong WRs. It's not anything like Bobby Carpenter who couldn't get on the field.

 

[Idgit]

Losing his starting job is a good indicator that he wasn't playing well.

Actually, it's an indication that Scandrick was playing better. But then, Scandrick was also outplaying Carr at that point last season, too.

 

[RS12]

Losing his starting job is a good indicator that he wasn't playing well.

What else is there to say. When Broaddus questions his desire and dedication, it aint all roses.

 

[big dog cowboy]

I don't see this.

What I see is a player who had a new DC in Ryan and the 3-4..

only to change the DC from Ryan to Kiffin..

then from Kiffin and the 3-4 to Marrinelli and the 4-3..

..all in the first 2 seasons in the league.

..that's alot of change,

And sucked along with all I've just mentioned is Carter, Hayden, Selvie and Carr with all these Crazy Ivans.

It's no wonder they are feeling lost.

Heck..I'm lost and i think I keep up.

And I remember the same being said about DeMarco Murray after his first 3 years with us..

is he a bust?

another dropdead RB like MBII, Felix and a handful of others.

Only to see Murray rise to Pro Bowl level in his 3rd year.

So I'd put away the flame throwers.

Let's see.

I see most of the DB and safety problems as the lack or any true pass rush without having to resort to blitzing and leaving the DBs and safeties in single coverage.

That is the kiss of death and you could have 4 Pro Bowl DBs in our secondary..

but if the QB has a month to throw..

..it won't make a difference.

Post of the day.

Great stuff man.

 

[theSHOW]

I don't see this.

What I see is a player who had a new DC in Ryan and the 3-4..

only to change the DC from Ryan to Kiffin..

then from Kiffin and the 3-4 to Marrinelli and the 4-3..

..all in the first 2 seasons in the league.

..that's alot of change,

And sucked along with all I've just mentioned is Carter, Hayden, Selvie and Carr with all these Crazy Ivans.

It's no wonder they are feeling lost.

Heck..I'm lost and i think I keep up.

And I remember the same being said about DeMarco Murray after his first 3 years with us..

is he a bust?

another dropdead RB like MBII, Felix and a handful of others.

Only to see Murray rise to Pro Bowl level in his 3rd year.

So I'd put away the flame throwers.

Let's see.

I see most of the DB and safety problems as the lack or any true pass rush without having to resort to blitzing and leaving the DBs and safeties in single coverage.

That is the kiss of death and you could have 4 Pro Bowl DBs in our secondary..

but if the QB has a month to throw..

..it won't make a difference.

So, you agree with me

 

[Idgit]

What else is there to say. When Broaddus questions his desire and dedication, it aint all roses.

Seriously? Because Broaddus questioning something is hardly the measurement I'd use for determining something like that. Especially when you've seen Mo play well and you've heard other players (Dez and Scandrick I'm talking about, here) say how good he's going to be when he puts it all together.

 

[RS12]

Seriously? Because Broaddus questioning something is hardly the measurement I'd use for determining something like that. Especially when you've seen Mo play well and you've heard other players (Dez and Scandrick I'm talking about, here) say how good he's going to be when he puts it all together.

Well at least we know who the president of the Mo Claiborne apologist club is.

 

[jnday]

I can't believe anyone can actually defend his play of last year. He was awful.

He's had 2 int's and 1 fumble recovery in 2 years. Pro Football Focus ranked him 90th among 110 qualifying corners. He was beaten for an average of 16.6 yards per catch, which was the seventh-highest rate in the NFL. He gave up seven catches on eight targets in Week 4 against San Diego and six on seven three weeks later in Philadelphia. Riley Cooper abused him badly in that game. In that game, he gave up 3 4th quarter completions for first downs facing 3rd string QB Barkley.

This post should have closed the thread. It shows just how much of a bust Mo really is. This argument is over. Great work Amber.

 

[jnday]

Not at all. The words mean different things.

A bust can't play in this league. That's definitely not the case with Claiborne. He's struggled with strength for press coverage, and with health somewhat. But he's shown potential and given us plenty of starting snaps.

Listen to what Scandrick has to say about him sometime.

Scandrick took his job and then talks him up. This is comedy gold.

 

[jnday]

Well, I was specifically talking about playing starters' snaps there. I think it's an important distinction. Busts don't give you starts, and they don't even excel in key roles (they way, say, Desmond Howard ended up doing at one point). They just can't play. Claiborne gives us quality snaps--both as a starter and even last year, when he missed time due to injury and was replaced in the starting lineup, in reserve. There was a notable difference in what we did on the back end with Mo out and what we were able to do with a third man-cover CB when he was in.

He's nowhere near a bust, and it's too soon to tell, anyway. Claiborne's going to get starters snaps in this league, both in Dallas and after if he's not extended at the end of his rookie contract. The issue with Claiborne is people were expecting him to play at a very high level, and he has not. He's been a very average player as a press CB, and he's missed time and gets bullied by strong WRs. It's not anything like Bobby Carpenter who couldn't get on the field.

Mo playing time is approaching the point where he won't see the field. He lost his starting position. That is a serious sign of where his career is headed.

 

[Idgit]

Well at least we know who president of the Mo Claiborne apologist club is.

You know me. Not one to throw a player under a bus just for attention.

As I always say, I put a lot of stock in what players say about their teammates. And almost none in what unhappy fans choose to believe.

 

[Idgit]

Scandrick took his job and then talks him up. This is comedy gold.

Yeah. Because that's Orlando Scandrick, all over. Just talking other players up whenever he can.

 

[Kevinicus]

You asked for examples and stats, and he gave them to you. Now, they aren't good enough. Judging an individual's performance on the football field is very subjective. The fact that he only started 7 games last year is really all you need to know.

This guy was billed as the next Deion Sanders by the FO. We traded our #2 pick to select him #6 overall. It looks like we will be extremely lucky for him to be Terence Newman. People ragged on Mike Jenkins, but he was much better at this point in his career and was a lot lower draft pick.

First, I said from the 2nd half of the Denver game on. That eliminates the SD game. Second, PFF is not a stat. Third, I question the validity of the stats from the Philly game, but please tell me how a CB gets school by a team that has less than 90 yds passing in 3 quarters. Is it really that hard to use critical thinking skills?

 

[jnday]

Yeah. Because that's Orlando Scandrick, all over. Just talking other players up whenever he can.

What do you think he is going to say about a teammate that he just replaced in the starting lineup? Scandrick is not going to come out and say I took his job because he is not a starting quality CB. Don't you think Scandrick is trying to keep tension down between himself and the guy that he replaced as a starter? I have noticed that you don't understand that coaches and players will not talk about teammates in a negative way. I have my problems with Jerry and Garrett, but they wouldn't allow teammates to blast each other in the media. I can't think of many jobs that would allow coworkers to do this. It is bad business and would create a very bad work place atmosphere. Even the bag boys at Piggly Wiggly would know better. Come on man, use some common sense.nif you want to take players comments to heart, listen to former players that can tell the truth without fear of losing their jobs.

 

[Dodger12]

I can't believe anyone can actually defend his play of last year. He was awful.

As I read through the off-season threads I sometimes wonder if we all watched the same team last season. It's very bizarre......

 

[Hoofbite]

Well, I was specifically talking about playing starters' snaps there. I think it's an important distinction. Busts don't give you starts, and they don't even excel in key roles (they way, say, Desmond Howard ended up doing at one point). They just can't play. Claiborne gives us quality snaps--both as a starter and even last year, when he missed time due to injury and was replaced in the starting lineup, in reserve. There was a notable difference in what we did on the back end with Mo out and what we were able to do with a third man-cover CB when he was in.

He's nowhere near a bust, and it's too soon to tell, anyway. Claiborne's going to get starters snaps in this league, both in Dallas and after if he's not extended at the end of his rookie contract. The issue with Claiborne is people were expecting him to play at a very high level, and he has not. He's been a very average player as a press CB, and he's missed time and gets bullied by strong WRs. It's not anything like Bobby Carpenter who couldn't get on the field.

Starting snaps is a horrible measuring stick because it says nothing about how well the player was actually playing.

Alan Ball gave a few teams "starting snaps".

Nearly every player taken in the top 10 will give their team starting snaps on opening day, many of whom will ultimately be labeled busts.

Top 10, and especially top 5 picks are given every opportunity to show that they can't play before finally being tossed out.

Even with starting snaps if his play doesn't improve he will be a bust. Nobody's spending Top 5 picks for mediocre play.

 

[CyberB0b]

First, I said from the 2nd half of the Denver game on. That eliminates the SD game. Second, PFF is not a stat. Third, I question the validity of the stats from the Philly game, but please tell me how a CB gets school by a team that has less than 90 yds passing in 3 quarters. Is it really that hard to use critical thinking skills?

Well, he only played in 10 games, so you are eliminating 4 and a half of the games he did play in, so nearly 50%. Of those 10 games, he only started 7, because he lost his job later in the year. So you are talking about a window of 2-3 games where he played well.

 

[Kevinicus]

Well, he only played in 10 games, so you are eliminating 4 and a half of the games he did play in, so nearly 50%. Of those 10 games, he only started 7, because he lost his job later in the year. So you are talking about a window of 2-3 games where he played well.

Uhm, no. I would count KC, Stl, The 2nd half against Denver, Wash, Philadelphia, Detroit, New York (2nd game), and Philly again as games he played well in. That's 7.5 of 10, including the final 5 and a half games (from Denver on). It's stupid to continue to criticize a player if you're unwilling to recognize improvement.