Is it time to declare Claiborne a bust?

[Section446]

As average as he's been, every draft pick deserves 3 years before you start throwing around the "B" word.

 

[Idgit]

Semantics.

Not at all. The words mean different things.

A bust can't play in this league. That's definitely not the case with Claiborne. He's struggled with strength for press coverage, and with health somewhat. But he's shown potential and given us plenty of starting snaps.

Listen to what Scandrick has to say about him sometime.

 

[Rockport]

Not at all. The words mean different things.

A bust can't play in this league. That's definitely not the case with Claiborne. He's struggled with strength for press coverage, and with health somewhat. But he's shown potential and given us plenty of starting snaps.

Listen to what Scandrick has to say about him sometime.

Well, he's certainly been a bust so far. I hope he makes some huge improvements this coming year.

 

[Kevinicus]

I can't believe anyone can actually defend his play of last year. He was awful.

He's had 2 int's and 1 fumble recovery in 2 years. Pro Football Focus ranked him 90th among 110 qualifying corners. He was beaten for an average of 16.6 yards per catch, which was the seventh-highest rate in the NFL. He gave up seven catches on eight targets in Week 4 against San Diego and six on seven three weeks later in Philadelphia. Riley Cooper abused him badly in that game. In that game, he gave up 3 4th quarter completions for first downs facing 3rd string QB Barkley.

LOL, PFF is a joke, and really, the Philly game? The one where the QB's had 194 yds combined, 3 4th qtr. ints, and got a whole 3 points only because of a turnover? That game? Garbage time prevent defense stats, really? Exactly what I thought. This whole "Claiborne" was awful is based ENTIRELY off a few plays from the opener, and the San Diego (where he struggle facing Allen - who is pretty good it turns out).

 

[Doomsay]

He has been pretty awful - better health and another training camp might help, but he has a really long way to go to even get to average IMO.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No it doesn't, it speaks to the development of the 6th overall pick or lack thereof.

LOL, PFF is a joke, and really, the Philly game? The one where the QB's had 194 yds combined, 3 4th qtr. ints, and got a whole 3 points only because of a turnover? That game? Garbage time prevent defense stats, really? Exactly what I thought. This whole "Claiborne" was awful is based ENTIRELY off a few plays from the opener, and the San Diego (where he struggle facing Allen - who is pretty good it turns out).

People that use pff pass metrics for an argument do not understand them.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He has been pretty awful - better health and another training camp might help, but he has a really long way to go to even get to average IMO.

Seeing that the average completion percentage for a QB is ~55%, I get the sense that you have no sense of twhat the mean really is.

I can remember him being picked on just once and that was against Philly his rookie year. He bounced back in the meetings since then. A good throw beats good coverage and I think people much like the success of the team either need to temper expectations or be doomed to eternal disappointment.

 

[Doomsay]

Seeing that the average completion percentage for a QB is ~55%, I get the sense that you have no sense of twhat the mean really is.

.

I have no sense in twhat you are referring to. I never mentioned any specific completion %, nor did I reference PFF. You seem to have issued a of non sequitur here, perhaps you meant to reply to someone else?

 

[CT Dal Fan]

I know there is absolutely no correlation here, but it deserves mention anyway: the 2013 Cowboys were 5-4 in games Claiborne started.

 

[JohnsKey19]

Not a bust but obviously not the player we thought we were getting. This is a huge year for him personally.

 

[CyberB0b]

LOL, PFF is a joke, and really, the Philly game? The one where the QB's had 194 yds combined, 3 4th qtr. ints, and got a whole 3 points only because of a turnover? That game? Garbage time prevent defense stats, really? Exactly what I thought. This whole "Claiborne" was awful is based ENTIRELY off a few plays from the opener, and the San Diego (where he struggle facing Allen - who is pretty good it turns out).

You asked for examples and stats, and he gave them to you. Now, they aren't good enough. Judging an individual's performance on the football field is very subjective. The fact that he only started 7 games last year is really all you need to know.

This guy was billed as the next Deion Sanders by the FO. We traded our #2 pick to select him #6 overall. It looks like we will be extremely lucky for him to be Terence Newman. People ragged on Mike Jenkins, but he was much better at this point in his career and was a lot lower draft pick.

 

[big dog cowboy]

It looks like we

Good thing he has plenty of time to change his perception.

 

[Redball Express]

Premature Evaluation!

I don't see this.

What I see is a player who had a new DC in Ryan and the 3-4..

only to change the DC from Ryan to Kiffin..

then from Kiffin and the 3-4 to Marrinelli and the 4-3..

..all in the first 2 seasons in the league.

..that's alot of change,

And sucked along with all I've just mentioned is Carter, Hayden, Selvie and Carr with all these Crazy Ivans.

It's no wonder they are feeling lost.

Heck..I'm lost and i think I keep up.

And I remember the same being said about DeMarco Murray after his first 3 years with us..

is he a bust?

another dropdead RB like MBII, Felix and a handful of others.

Only to see Murray rise to Pro Bowl level in his 3rd year.

So I'd put away the flame throwers.

Let's see.

I see most of the DB and safety problems as the lack or any true pass rush without having to resort to blitzing and leaving the DBs and safeties in single coverage.

That is the kiss of death and you could have 4 Pro Bowl DBs in our secondary..

but if the QB has a month to throw..

..it won't make a difference.

 

[dstovall5]

Given the amount of adversity he has faced, I don't think it would be fair to judge him as a bust right now.

Put him on a team with an actual NFL quality d-line and he'll look like an actual CB. I feel sorry for what our secondary had to endure last year, especially given that our d-line consisted mostly of people off the streets. I don't care how good you are, when you have to consistently hold down your man a second or two longer due to an incompetent d-line, you're going to get burnt on your fair share of plays. Just how Carr got his *** TORCHED for 350 yards, and he was widely considered as a top notch CB before coming to Dallas.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have no sense in twhat you are referring to. I never mentioned any specific completion %, nor did I reference PFF. You seem to have issued a of non sequitur here, perhaps you meant to reply to someone else?

My point is that your standards for what is average is not based on anything but whim it seems.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You asked for examples and stats, and he gave them to you. Now, they aren't good enough. Judging an individual's performance on the football field is very subjective. The fact that he only started 7 games last year is really all you need to know.

This guy was billed as the next Deion Sanders by the FO. We traded our #2 pick to select him #6 overall. It looks like we will be extremely lucky for him to be Terence Newman. People ragged on Mike Jenkins, but he was much better at this point in his career and was a lot lower draft pick.

You got sucked then. If you want to buy the hyperbole coming out of Jerry Jones's mouth that is on you. Just like it is on you that you think pff is a valid metric.

pff attributes a completion to 'the closest defender.' Seeing that we played a whole lot of zone and the nature of what happens to relative position when people get beat or miss assignments it should be obvious that the attribution does not necessarily mean the individual was culpable.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

One thing I notice about the bashers is that outside of bringing up the Eagles game and me -not a basher- bringing up the Chicapo game, there are precious few specific examples. Mostly I see complaints about Jerry Jones and garbage generalization of which pff stats are a lions share.

How was he getting beat, by who, and in what circumstances. If you do not have the capability of talking like that then maybe just maybe it's okay to say you don't really know how he played. Because you don't.

 

[CyberB0b]

You got sucked then. If you want to buy the hyperbole coming out of Jerry Jones's mouth that is on you. Just like it is on you that you think pff is a valid metric.

pff attributes a completion to 'the closest defender.' Seeing that we played a whole lot of zone and the nature of what happens to relative position when people get beat or miss assignments it should be obvious that the attribution does not necessarily mean the individual was culpable.

So what is a valid metric, in your opinion?

 

[Doomsay]

My point is that your standards for what is average is not based on anything but whim it seems.

You have to make sense to make a point in the first place, which you haven't.

 

[Bowdown27]

Truthfully I don't consider him a bust. If he was rookie of the year and put up same numbers as last year people would say he was a one year wonder and is a bust.

I give him another 2 years under a whole new young defense w marinelli hopefully