CFZ Is McCarthy underperforming as much as Garrett?

[G2]

I agree. There are still more results to measure.

Results matter and why we made a change. I was thinking we were or are in a better place but it’s not looking as bright this week.

I’m not arguing we didn’t need to make a change. I get it. But at some point it’s going to be a fair argument. Who did more with less or less with more.

The 9ers game changed the universe. I have no idea why so many are this emotional. I get it, in general, but come on. We will most likely have to get past San Fran, I'd rather drop a stinker early than a "win or go home" situation. At least, from what I understand, teams have bigger growth spurts from a loss than a win.

That's been an issue here. They can't seem to handle success.

 

[JW82]

Mike is much better than Garrett. But thats not a high bar. Did Garrett ever have back to back winning seasons?

 

[starfan1]

I think his offense is garbage and if hes calling plays based on his thoughts on the QBs ability then changes need made there well leave it at that. its also irritating that this team comes out flat 30% of the time. I didnt care for Garrett but McCarthy is better but not a ton. I believe his skins on the wall come from having a hall of fame QB

even though said QB hasnt dont squat since either. Team game

 

[foofighters]

These last 3 years most would argue MM has built a more talented roster while revamping the offense and building a top notch defense .

And we have had most fans who believe this is a much more talented team under McCarthy.

The fact we had our first back to back 12 win and consecutive playoff seasons since the 90’s would support as such.

But we still have come up short in the playoffs and why we made the change to begin with.

This isn’t just about our QB and I warn you not to make it about it. There are ample threads for that discussion.

The Cowboys and McCarthy used Moore last year as a scapegoat after we had one of the top offenses not only in Redzone but overall . He totally revamped our offensive scheme which was already being called out while we were blowing out lesser opponents.

Now we apparently had built a defense which was hyped or sold as becoming one of the top in the league. Which had already fallen flat on its face in two of our 5 games.

At what point can we argue that McCarthy is doing less with more? Unless we are backing off this is a much more talented team than Garrett had ?

I was suspect of his playcalling and game day Mgmt before this game and season but the overall vibe was he is a difference maker and we’re in a much better place which there was some evidence to support .

I guess my overall question is this. Is McCarthy doing less with more than Garrett did?

1. We all know the issue isn't with MM.
2. You stated not to make this about Dak however, if you look at the way this new offense is built, it sure does look like we are trying to hide the extreme weakness of this offense. The bad part is that it is easily defensible given the limitations of our #1 guy. So MM can only do so much. Don't get me wrong, the scapegoat this year is going to be MM or Quinn. That part remains to be seen.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

McCarthy is the best coach we've had since Parcells. It doesn't mean he's great but he's way better than Garrett. I have nightmares just thinking about him.

 

[Diehardblues]

I think, for the most part, McCarthy has had more talent than JG did. But JG had a couple of really good teams and came up with nothing.

The end game is playoff success, neither got it done in post season.

Agreed. And both results were disappointing.

I also acknowledge MM is obviously a better coach and had built a better team.

My argument still persist in who is doing more with less or less with more. I appreciate your honest answer. Thanks

 

[Pass2Run]

McCarthy is 5 times the head coach Garrett was. But he's about on the same level if we're talking offensive coordinator.

At this point, he should hand the duties over to Shottenheimer and start looking for a WCO coordinator for next year. This team needs to make the switch and stop running the old Garrett/Norv Turner scheme altogether.

 

[Cowboy_svt]

Best answer I’ve had yet. And we will have to see the results this year.

But thus far I’d argue , if we consent we have more talent under MM, we aren’t having anymore success in playoffs. Which would be less with more.

My faulty excuse is that we are facing arguably one of the best team in the playoffs in our losses. '21 niners barely lost to the Rams in the conference game, last year they got beat cause they had no qb (after us of course), we blew the hell out of tampa bay. Id agree the offense has been terrible in our losses, and 3 times in a row not being able to figure something out id blame on coaching.

Under JG we put dak in his rookie year to face GB in 2016 who had no secondary, literally filled with guys off the street (under big mac) and we lost. 2014 was the catch and id argue was more on defense cause GB overall was really good, but rodgers was hurt that game we couldnt do anything. Seattle was decent, but it was a good win, but we got completely outplayed on both sides against the Rams (although they did reach the SB tbf, but imo the saints shouldve been there were not for possibly the worst noncall in the playoffs). Edit *Forgot about the Lions win*, felt like we stole that game from a very very good defense, but our offense still was very shaky most of that game and our defense got lucky on a noncall.

Cant say one has been substantially better than the other, but maybe a slight edge to Big mac, but we still got this season to see if it rises or falls.

 

[Diehardblues]

1. We all know the issue isn't with MM.
2. You stated not to make this about Dak however, if you look at the way this new offense is built, it sure does look like we are trying to hide the extreme weakness of this offense. The bad part is that it is easily defensible given the limitations of our #1 guy. So MM can only do so much. Don't get me wrong, the scapegoat this year is going to be MM or Quinn. That part remains to be seen.

Our local Dallas paper is calling out McCarthys offense and playcalling which was a problem before this game.

And they are beginning the narrative this could be MM final calling if this season and offense flops due to him taking over offense.

 

[Redsfan_83]

JG was a QB guru wasn't he? KM is a QB guru, right? MM worked with a hall of fame QB (allbeit type A annoying one). JG had a younger/healthier Dak, and had a healthier/younger OL. Where are we now? Didn't mention what JG had in TE/WR options. MM was gifted an aging OL, regressing QB, no RB1, no TE1 and a WR1 that his QB for some reason won't throw to. What miracle worker could do a better job right now?

 

[Captain-Crash]

blah, bah blah, i love jason garett......blah

 

[Diehardblues]

McCarthy is 5 times the head coach Garrett was. But he's about on the same level if we're talking offensive coordinator.

At this point, he should hand the duties over to Shottenheimer and start looking for a WCO coordinator for next year. This team needs to make the switch and stop running the old Garrett/Norv Turner scheme altogether.

Garrett no doubt was an inexperienced HC and shouldn’t have ever been our HC . But if MM being the much greater HC who had built a better team doesn’t have anymore success I believe at some point we can argue one had as much or more success with less and the other had less success with more.

That doesn’t define that one was a better HC or results were better. But if a lesser of horrid HC had as much or even close to the same success that a much greater HC with more talent then there will need to be some concessions made.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Garrett took over a team that was top heavy offense and a bunch of JAGs on defense. Of course our division was actually tough during that time and not the relatively joke (outside eagles) it is now so getting to the playoffs was harder.

Um, this is totally wrong. In 2011 it only took 9 wins to take the division, and in 2012 and 2013 only 10. Remember those win and in games at the end of the year that Garrett always lost?

In contrast the NFCE last year was the toughest in the league and not even 12 wins was enough.

 

[Diehardblues]

JG was a QB guru wasn't he? KM is a QB guru, right? MM worked with a hall of fame QB (allbeit type A annoying one). JG had a younger/healthier Dak, and had a healthier/younger OL. Where are we now? Didn't mention what JG had in TE/WR options. MM was gifted an aging OL, regressing QB, no RB1, no TE1 and a WR1 that his QB for some reason won't throw to. What miracle worker could do a better job right now?

All good points. I think we can all agree there’s no comparisons in caliber of HC’s.

Bottomline is who had built a better and more talented team. And who had done more with less and less with more ??

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Garrett no doubt was an inexperienced HC and shouldn’t have ever been our HC . But if MM being the much greater HC who had built a better team doesn’t have anymore success I believe at some point we can argue one had as much or more success with less and the other had less success with more.

Garrett went 8-8, 8-8, 8-8 his first three years in what was, as pointed out above, not even a very good division his first three years.

McCarthy went 6-10 (in a horrific injury year similar to the one Garrett went 4-12 in 2015), 12-5, 12-5 with one division win, two playoff berths, and the first road playoff win in decades.

In what world is McCarthy having less success than Garrett did?

 

[Diehardblues]

Garrett went 8-8, 8-8, 8-8 his first three years in what was, as pointed out above, not even a very good division his first three years.

McCarthy went 6-10 (in a horrific injury year similar to the one Garrett went 4-12 in 2015), 12-5, 12-5 with one division win, two playoff berths, and the first road playoff win in decades.

In what world is McCarthy achieving less than Garrett did?

That isn’t my question.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Um, this is totally wrong. In 2011 it only took 9 wins to take the division, and in 2012 and 2013 only 10. Remember those win and in games at the end of the year that Garrett always lost?

In contrast the NFCE last year was the toughest in the league and not even 12 wins was enough.

Garrett should have been fired during those years. People talk about the embarrassing loss Sunday night. Garrett had more than any coach in Cowboy history.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

That isn’t my question.

That's my question to you since you made the claim.

 

[Diehardblues]

That's my question to you since you made the claim.

My question remains in who is doing more or less with the talent they have ?

Assuming advancing in the playoffs is ultimately the measuring stick.

I’m not disputing who is the better HC or better team built. But if we don’t eventually have anymore success advancing in playoffs with a better team and coaching then the argument can be made.

 

[charron]

1. They have had more talented players in recent history than under Garrett.
2. Defensive coaches under Dan are lightyears better than anything Garrett had on staff.
3. Now under Mike I can honestly this is the worst set of offensive coaches i've seen in a long time since maybe dave campo.