Is Philly better at building teams than us?

[fivetwos]

@Sydla

Nice work in this thread. Nailed it.

Wish a lot less of it was true.

 

[Biag]

The always seem to make great trades but except for the last few years the don’t do well in the draft. I live near Philly and their biggest gripe is their draft and how Howie keeps his job.

 

[Rajveer]

they always have a dominant two way dt. they had f cox for a decade. Now they have two younger d tackles with cox still rotating. we have good outside guys like ware and
Micah. Their defenses are consistently more physical and better against the run. we both build up the o lines and receiver corps. you can argue daks a better qb. they have two number one wr s and a top te. they made two superbowls in the last 5 years. we often rush the passer and cover well but struggle defending the run. Is that the key?

They want to win, we want to show off.

 

[kskboys]

This is like asking if an elephant weighs more than a gnat.

 

[shabazz]

This is like asking if an elephant weighs more than a gnat.

Jerry would reply to a phrase like that and say, “ Well, ya can take a pound of gnats and a 16 ounces of elephant but they’ll both weigh the same at the end of the day”.

 

[mcmvp]

Well the hill is a bit larger because their loss is out of conference, our loss is in conference.

Overrated S.

LOL.

He’s better than what they had so yeah, it’s an upgrade. How obtuse can you be?

Pretty obtuse, this board used to be full of these types of fans - but I'm seeing decreased number this year...or perhaps it's my imagination

 

[Sydla]

Well apparently, if you bring in one overrated safety for a fourth and fifth round pick you're a shoe in for the ring...LOL I'm not discounting their move but until they proved it was a great move that put them over the top it's just an overrated move...IMHO these overreaction right on time every year..

Some of these fans think they know what they're talking about they've already crowned some of these teams... Like I just challenged him show me all 32 teams yearly that make big moves bold moves right before the trade deadline and it wins them a Super Bowl, automatic??
You think if teams knew this and if Jerry knew this was a guarantee and it was automatic they wouldn't all do it then if they all did it anything.. Wasn't the amari Cooper trade a great trade at the trade deadline it turned our whole season around but still didn't get us past the second round...

LOL. Overrated S. He was an all pro 18 months ago.

And he’s better than the slop they were running out at S.

Does it get tough being such a homer?

 

[Sydla]

Pretty obtuse, this board used to be full of these types of fans - but I'm seeing decreased number this year...or perhaps it's my imagination

LOL I mean even if Byard is overrated, he’s better than what they have. So they upgraded.

This ain’t hard.

 

[StarOfGlory]

You can make a safe bet that they aren't replacing to HoF players with two HoF players.

You are also no accounting for the opportunity cost of what else they don't get with the assets they need to use to replace those players. You're downgrading at two spots and not using those assets elsewhere.

Their LG before Dickerson was nowhere near a HoF player. Dickerson already in his second year is a top five LG in the league and is a huge upgrade, an excellent use of resources. Hell, I was hoping we would draft Dickerson. Carter is already having the same impact as Hargreaves, for less money, seeing as he is on his rookie contract. An excellent use of resources, as the money saved allowed them to pursue other players they needed.

 

[plasticman]

If the Cowboys went 0-16 after a SB and then in a few years rebuilt the team and were back in the SB, yeah, you could make the case they are more adept at roster building.

Yes, postseason success is the ultimate barometer of how good you are at roster building. And it's not that the Eagles just happened to win two more playoff games than us. In the last 6 seasons, they have been to two SBs. We have two playoff wins total. It isn't as close as you think.

No, I could not make the case that they are adept at roster building. In fact, I wouldn't even call it roster building.

How good is an architect if he creates this fantastic building only to have it come tumbling down into a pile of rubble a year later? How meaningful is a championship if you defend it by losing almost every game a year later? People will remember the crash just as much as they remember the championship.

What is roster building and what is it's goal? We could even disagree on that, I don't know.

I'm not interested in building a team. I'm interested in building a dynasty. I don't have much use for a single Super Bowl championship. Why?

Well, consider that there are 32 teams in the league. This means the odds of any team winning the Super Bowl is 1 in 32. This also means that, on average, an NFL team will win a Super Bowl every 32 years. The Cowboy last won a Super Bowl in 1995. Therefore, if the Cowboys win one Super bowl by 2026, they will have merely satisfied the Law of Averages, nothing special.

The Cowboys have always been about special, that is, when it was run by those whose only goal and singular focus was winning.

You don't build a team that has a very high probability of winning a Super Bowl in one particular year. You build a team that is capable of contending for a championship for an extended number of years. It is the saturation process. If you are in the middle of it every year after year, then you will increase the probability of winning at least one, most likely more.

No other fanbase should recognize this more. After all, the Cowboys do own the record for consecutive winning seasons which is 20. Nobody should make the mistake of claiming that those were different days, it can't be done anymore. The New England Patriots just came within one single season of matching that Cowboys record with 19 consecutive winning seasons.

Winning a single championship by going "all in" is fool's gold. I read about all these trade proposals from fans and they don't really seem to understand or contemplate what you are doing when you trade draft picks for players. You are sacrificing the future for the present. If a team wins a championship in this way, their fans get to experience the joy, the pride, the inspiration for one offseason....and then the bill arrives.

When you build your roster the right way then you compete for several seasons by maximizing the value of your draft picks and the talent of your scouting department. When you win a championship there is no reason to believe you can't do it again.....and again.

That is the Dallas Cowboys way according to their history.

The Eagles championship season in 2017 was just a tease, a cruel joke on their fans. It was an island amidst a sea of mediocracy. Their combined record for the four seasons after was 31-33.

So now here are the Eagles again, picking up talented players with very little attention being paid to the price, the detriment to their future. Sure, a 5th round pick here, a 4th round pick there.

A DaRon Bland here?........A Jason Kelce there?

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Their LG before Dickerson was nowhere near a HoF player. Dickerson already in his second year is a top five LG in the league and is a huge upgrade, an excellent use of resources. Hell, I was hoping we would draft Dickerson. Carter is already having the same impact as Hargreaves, for less money, seeing as he is on his rookie contract. An excellent use of resources, as the money saved allowed them to pursue other players they needed.

Cool I guess it's a good thing I didn't mention any of those guys you're talking about.

 

[Sydla]

No, I could not make the case that they are adept at roster building. In fact, I wouldn't even call it roster building.

How good is an architect if he creates this fantastic building only to have it come tumbling down into a pile of rubble a year later? How meaningful is a championship if you defend it by losing almost every game a year later? People will remember the crash just as much as they remember the championship.

What is roster building and what is it's goal? We could even disagree on that, I don't know.

I'm not interested in building a team. I'm interested in building a dynasty. I don't have much use for a single Super Bowl championship. Why?

Well, consider that there are 32 teams in the league. This means the odds of any team winning the Super Bowl is 1 in 32. This also means that, on average, an NFL team will win a Super Bowl every 32 years. The Cowboy last won a Super Bowl in 1995. Therefore, if the Cowboys win one Super bowl by 2026, they will have merely satisfied the Law of Averages, nothing special.

The Cowboys have always been about special, that is, when it was run by those whose only goal and singular focus was winning.

You don't build a team that has a very high probability of winning a Super Bowl in one particular year. You build a team that is capable of contending for a championship for an extended number of years. It is the saturation process. If you are in the middle of it every year after year, then you will increase the probability of winning at least one, most likely more.

No other fanbase should recognize this more. After all, the Cowboys do own the record for consecutive winning seasons which is 20. Nobody should make the mistake of claiming that those were different days, it can't be done anymore. The New England Patriots just came within one single season of matching that Cowboys record with 19 consecutive winning seasons.

Winning a single championship by going "all in" is fool's gold. I read about all these trade proposals from fans and they don't really seem to understand or contemplate what you are doing when you trade draft picks for players. You are sacrificing the future for the present. If a team wins a championship in this way, their fans get to experience the joy, the pride, the inspiration for one offseason....and then the bill arrives.

When you build your roster the right way then you compete for several seasons by maximizing the value of your draft picks and the talent of your scouting department. When you win a championship there is no reason to believe you can't do it again.....and again.

That is the Dallas Cowboys way according to their history.

The Eagles championship season in 2017 was just a tease, a cruel joke on their fans. It was an island amidst a sea of mediocracy. Their combined record for the four seasons after was 31-33.

So now here are the Eagles again, picking up talented players with very little attention being paid to the price, the detriment to their future. Sure, a 5th round pick here, a 4th round pick there.

A DaRon Bland here?........A Jason Kelce there?

Yikes. Straight out of the homer bible right here. The best way to combat this is ask some questions.

Let's start with your notion that what Philly has done is mortgage their future here. That in doing what they have done to rebuild this roster from the 2017 season, they mortgaged their future unlike the Cowboys. So with that in mind, answer for me a few questions.

• Which team is in better cap shape the next few years?
• Which team has more draft picks in this upcoming draft?

Now, using your logic above to defend the Cowboys roster building vs the Eagles, you'd think the Cowboys at this point, would be in better shape with draft picks, cap space, etc because the Eagles aren't building their rosters the right way. So it would be interesting to know the answer to those two questions above.

Second, your point seems to be that the Eagles 2017 SB win was fools gold because they sold out for that SB and had to tear the roster apart due to age and contracts and had to basically endure bad seasons for the mistakes made in building that fools gold team. OK. Answer me this. When looking at these two teams below, do you consider one having been more successful than the other?

Team A starting in 2018

- 3 playoff appearances
- 2 playoff wins
- 2 divisional titles
- 2 second place divisional finishes
- 1 losing season
- 36-29 regular season record

Team B starting in 2018

- 4 playoff appearances
- 3 playoff wins
- 2 divisional titles
- 2 second place finishes
- 1 losing season
- 31-33 regular season record

Now using your excuse making above and your defense of how Dallas does it right and how Philly showed suspect roster building skills winning a SB in 2017 which would result in a total tear down, shouldn't the Cowboys and Eagles success since 2017 diverge significantly? Shouldn't the Cowboys have had a far more successful run since the 2017 SB given they are building smartly and for the long haul while Philly made poor decisions and sold out for one SB run that resulted in having to tear that team down?

Is that what happened here in reality?

 

[GORICO]

the value different positions than us ... not right wrong or indifferent.

true

 

[GORICO]

Clear differences in how Philly and Dallas team build.

1 - Philly places more emphasis on the lines than we do. They have concluded that if you can be strong up the middle on both sides of the ball that gives you a fighting chance. Now we do spend some resources on the OL and finally used a first round pick on a DT but if Roseman had been our GM, there is no way they would have passed on Torrence in the last draft in the 2nd round for an injured TE.

2 - Philly admits mistakes quickly. They don't languish with bad coaches or potential problems or poor trends. Pederson won them a SB but something was off the last few years. Philly basically zipped him. They cut bait on Chip Kelly early. Wentz? They didn't mess around with him when things went south. They just found a way to get rid of him. Here in Dallas? Jerry struggles to admit mistakes. It will happen again this offseason if the team scuffles again - he'll keep Dak and McCarthy when it will be obvious that an offensive tear down might be needed.

3 - Roseman is just better at trades than Jerry. The value Philly gets when trading or acquiring players is ridiculous. Even go back to the Wentz trade, the way Roseman was able to manuever around and ship off mediocre players (Kiko Alonso anyone?) to help them move up to get in a position to then get Wentz. Swift this offseason was a total steal. Getting Indy's first round pick for Wentz? ***. Jerry has had a couple of decent trades but he doesn't have the skill or ability to pull off some of those things Roseman has.

4 - They manage the cap better. Now Jerry isn't awful at cap management but Philly exploits the rules around the cap better than most. Quick question for you fans. The Eagles spent a lot of money on AJ Brown, Hurts, etc. recently. Would you be surprised to know they are projected to have almost $60MM in cap space next year? They were in bad shape in 2017 with some aging guys, some bloated contracts, Wentz's big hit and yet 5 years later, Roseman rebuilt their cap, their team and they were in the SB. Jerry hasn't been able to that in 20+ year, let alone in 5.

One can argue that if you look at the last 7-8 years, Dallas has outdrafted Philly. Roseman had a run of some really bad first round picks. But building a team is more than just hitting on your first rounder. Jerry and his boob son collect players. That's it. There's no ryhme or reason or method or plan. They collect players. They just come up with a roster And then expect their hand picked coach to mold that into something workable. Roseman has a plan and builds a team. He has a clear plan in place every offseason and it shows.

We are basically anchored to a stubborn old man who despite MOUNTAINS of evidence he's not doing it right, still thinks he's smarter than everyone in the NFL.

Sydia----you aint wrong...and it ticks me off...tired of Jones's whether they win or lose make billions of dollars cruise around on super Yacht guzzling Johnnie

Walker blue label....then they think...oh yeah....should we not look like we run an NFL team?.....as long as we are not bottom of the barrel its good enough

its made them billions

 

[GORICO]

Yikes. Straight out of the homer bible right here. The best way to combat this is ask some questions.

Let's start with your notion that what Philly has done is mortgage their future here. That in doing what they have done to rebuild this roster from the 2017 season, they mortgaged their future unlike the Cowboys. So with that in mind, answer for me a few questions.

• Which team is in better cap shape the next few years?
• Which team has more draft picks in this upcoming draft?

Now, using your logic above to defend the Cowboys roster building vs the Eagles, you'd think the Cowboys at this point, would be in better shape with draft picks, cap space, etc because the Eagles aren't building their rosters the right way. So it would be interesting to know the answer to those two questions above.

Second, your point seems to be that the Eagles 2017 SB win was fools gold because they sold out for that SB and had to tear the roster apart due to age and contracts and had to basically endure bad seasons for the mistakes made in building that fools gold team. OK. Answer me this. When looking at these two teams below, do you consider one having been more successful than the other?

Team A starting in 2018

- 3 playoff appearances
- 2 playoff wins
- 2 divisional titles
- 2 second place divisional finishes
- 1 losing season
- 36-29 regular season record

Team B starting in 2018

- 4 playoff appearances
- 3 playoff wins
- 2 divisional titles
- 2 second place finishes
- 1 losing season
- 31-33 regular season record

Now using your excuse making above and your defense of how Dallas does it right and how Philly showed suspect roster building skills winning a SB in 2017 which would result in a total tear down, shouldn't the Cowboys and Eagles success since 2017 diverge significantly? Shouldn't the Cowboys have had a far more successful run since the 2017 SB given they are building smartly and for the long haul while Philly made poor decisions and sold out for one SB run that resulted in having to tear that team down?

Is that what happened here in reality?

i would rather we go after more free agents and not just our own players which we kinda did this year...and i get it may not be good to mortgage future to win

now....or dont do it and dont win at all???.....i am sick of one and done or two and done and never make it past divisional round since 1996?....the Jone's dont

care...and we all know it...they have made billions as marketers does not matter our record.....would i trade places?....guzzling Jonnie Walker blue label on a

Super Yacht?....it would be fun for a while...but riches dont make people happy only brings more stress...all the fake friends and having to protect your money

from being ripped off etc etc etc....regardless in the end we all die....and i have never seen a "Hearst" pull a U-Haul...that is right....we came with nothing we

leave with nothing....why were Cowboys consistently Champs before all the money came in NFL???....so i like Howie Rosen or whatever name?....he tries

to win....Jones's just continue to lie to us year after year....you get bum Head coaches...so what do we expect...yes GORICO IS TICKED

 

[StarOfGlory]

Cool I guess it's a good thing I didn't mention any of those guys you're talking about.

Surely you understand the part of your quoted post I replied too. If you don’t, I will assume that you have bad luck when it comes to thinking:

 

[CCBoy]

Jerry would reply to a phrase like that and say, “ Well, ya can take a pound of gnats and a 16 ounces of elephant but they’ll both weigh the same at the end of the day”.

Just don't strain for gnats and swallow camels.

 

[CCBoy]

No, I could not make the case that they are adept at roster building. In fact, I wouldn't even call it roster building.

How good is an architect if he creates this fantastic building only to have it come tumbling down into a pile of rubble a year later? How meaningful is a championship if you defend it by losing almost every game a year later? People will remember the crash just as much as they remember the championship.

What is roster building and what is it's goal? We could even disagree on that, I don't know.

I'm not interested in building a team. I'm interested in building a dynasty. I don't have much use for a single Super Bowl championship. Why?

Well, consider that there are 32 teams in the league. This means the odds of any team winning the Super Bowl is 1 in 32. This also means that, on average, an NFL team will win a Super Bowl every 32 years. The Cowboy last won a Super Bowl in 1995. Therefore, if the Cowboys win one Super bowl by 2026, they will have merely satisfied the Law of Averages, nothing special.

The Cowboys have always been about special, that is, when it was run by those whose only goal and singular focus was winning.

You don't build a team that has a very high probability of winning a Super Bowl in one particular year. You build a team that is capable of contending for a championship for an extended number of years. It is the saturation process. If you are in the middle of it every year after year, then you will increase the probability of winning at least one, most likely more.

No other fanbase should recognize this more. After all, the Cowboys do own the record for consecutive winning seasons which is 20. Nobody should make the mistake of claiming that those were different days, it can't be done anymore. The New England Patriots just came within one single season of matching that Cowboys record with 19 consecutive winning seasons.

Winning a single championship by going "all in" is fool's gold. I read about all these trade proposals from fans and they don't really seem to understand or contemplate what you are doing when you trade draft picks for players. You are sacrificing the future for the present. If a team wins a championship in this way, their fans get to experience the joy, the pride, the inspiration for one offseason....and then the bill arrives.

When you build your roster the right way then you compete for several seasons by maximizing the value of your draft picks and the talent of your scouting department. When you win a championship there is no reason to believe you can't do it again.....and again.

That is the Dallas Cowboys way according to their history.

The Eagles championship season in 2017 was just a tease, a cruel joke on their fans. It was an island amidst a sea of mediocracy. Their combined record for the four seasons after was 31-33.

So now here are the Eagles again, picking up talented players with very little attention being paid to the price, the detriment to their future. Sure, a 5th round pick here, a 4th round pick there.

A DaRon Bland here?........A Jason Kelce there?

 

[CCBoy]

Yikes. Straight out of the homer bible right here. The best way to combat this is ask some questions.

Let's start with your notion that what Philly has done is mortgage their future here. That in doing what they have done to rebuild this roster from the 2017 season, they mortgaged their future unlike the Cowboys. So with that in mind, answer for me a few questions.

• Which team is in better cap shape the next few years?
• Which team has more draft picks in this upcoming draft?

Now, using your logic above to defend the Cowboys roster building vs the Eagles, you'd think the Cowboys at this point, would be in better shape with draft picks, cap space, etc because the Eagles aren't building their rosters the right way. So it would be interesting to know the answer to those two questions above.

Second, your point seems to be that the Eagles 2017 SB win was fools gold because they sold out for that SB and had to tear the roster apart due to age and contracts and had to basically endure bad seasons for the mistakes made in building that fools gold team. OK. Answer me this. When looking at these two teams below, do you consider one having been more successful than the other?

Team A starting in 2018

- 3 playoff appearances
- 2 playoff wins
- 2 divisional titles
- 2 second place divisional finishes
- 1 losing season
- 36-29 regular season record

Team B starting in 2018

- 4 playoff appearances
- 3 playoff wins
- 2 divisional titles
- 2 second place finishes
- 1 losing season
- 31-33 regular season record

Now using your excuse making above and your defense of how Dallas does it right and how Philly showed suspect roster building skills winning a SB in 2017 which would result in a total tear down, shouldn't the Cowboys and Eagles success since 2017 diverge significantly? Shouldn't the Cowboys have had a far more successful run since the 2017 SB given they are building smartly and for the long haul while Philly made poor decisions and sold out for one SB run that resulted in having to tear that team down?

Is that what happened here in reality?

Sorry, I'll just take this on to the trash yard and pay for it to be destroyed...Oooooh no.

You presented nothing more than isolated pin points.

The fact is this current Eagle's team is from a 3 year window where a large turn-around happened. 2017 is relative as to the movement of Andy Reid moved to KC. The only relative Eagle's point was that HIS team then actually WON a Super Bowl.

Teams who go to a Super Bowl and lose, almost never immediately return for a win.

Instead, we are talking about teams very closely related in talent. Two teams, both with 2 consecutive 12 win games? That is now...not non-stop comparing to a false view of pure losing.

Just how many games against each other, has Dallas won and how many games against each other have the Eagles won?

Don't continue back dooring insult of facts...answer those questions up front. You WON'T!

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Surely you understand the part of your quoted post I replied too. If you don’t, I will assume that you have bad luck when it comes to thinking:

I referenced HoF players and you mentioned replacing other guys. It's not one in the same. You didn't respond to anything I actually said.

Maybe I don't know how to think, but you don't know how to read.