Is there anybody who is missing Parcells as Our Head Coach Right now?

theebs

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Hostile;2593025 said:
Bill Parcells without Bill Belicheck is a very average football coach. Very average. So average that it is painful to admit kind of average.

How average? Glad you asked.

Here is some info from a thread where I argued with someone who made an erroneous claim that Belicheck is just as unsuccessful without Crennel and Weis. An utterly wrong assertion.

That's right, without Belicheck as his DC, Parcells is below .500 and has not won a post season game. Zero, zip, nada.

A-ver-age!

Here's a fun little rhetorical situation.

You own the Lions. You can hire Belichick or Parcells. Both want the job. Both are the same age. Both have their current resume'.

Who gets the job?



If you tell me the Big Tuna over the Hoodie I'm calling the guys in the white suits.

ok, So parcells wasnt a good coach before he ever met belichick? Whatever.

Go ask the people at air force if he was a good coach. Go ask the people at army who once upon a time got resumes from Bill Parcells and One, Jimmy Johnson....guess who they hired.

You keep leaving out how parcells rebuilt the pats without belichick. he came on a couple of years in after he couldnt make it work in cleveland, without parcells. WHo was the key cog in rebuilding the giants in the early 80s. I mean come on. Do you realize how bad of an organization the patriots were?

You can show me all the stats you want. All they mean are Bill Belichick is an excellent Head Coach, which is not rocket science. As I said earlier he learned a majority of his stuff with parcells.

I never see people reference belichick's defense getting beat at home in the playoffs against the rams, blowing a lead on the final drive and then giving up a bomb for a td to lose in overtime. Same thing in 89, dont see many bring those seasons up.

Belichick is great. Parcells is great. Together they are great.

WHy not just say Parcells is not a good coach without Ron earhardt.

and Give parcells Tom brady in Dallas and see what results you get.

better call the white suits on me. Parcells can stand all alone. He is great with little bill and great without him.
 

Hoofbite

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CowboyFan74;2593027 said:
It took him to long to pull the trigger on Testaverde and Bleedslow so no.

Oh, you mean he should have sat Vinny in favor of Drew Henson?

Bill didn't play Drew because Drew sucked more than Vinny did. Simple as that.

At the time I was against the move to Romo because he had no experience at all. Looking back, he probably should have made the decision a little earlier.

I'm not going to hold that against him and say that I'm glad hes gone because he waited too long on Romo.
 

MrMom

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Hostile;2593025 said:
Bill Parcells without Bill Belicheck is a very average football coach. Very average. So average that it is painful to admit kind of average.

How average? Glad you asked.

Here is some info from a thread where I argued with someone who made an erroneous claim that Belicheck is just as unsuccessful without Crennel and Weis. An utterly wrong assertion.

That's right, without Belicheck as his DC, Parcells is below .500 and has not won a post season game. Zero, zip, nada.

A-ver-age!

Here's a fun little rhetorical situation.

You own the Lions. You can hire Belichick or Parcells. Both want the job. Both are the same age. Both have their current resume'.

Who gets the job?



If you tell me the Big Tuna over the Hoodie I'm calling the guys in the white suits.


:laugh2:

Laughable post.
 

Hostile

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theebs;2593046 said:
ok, So parcells wasnt a good coach before he ever met belichick? Whatever.
I didn't say that. Did I?

Go ask the people at air force if he was a good coach. Go ask the people at army who once upon a time got resumes from Bill Parcells and One, Jimmy Johnson....guess who they hired.
I don't need to. I know he's a good coach.

You keep leaving out how parcells rebuilt the pats without belichick. he came on a couple of years in after he couldnt make it work in cleveland, without parcells. WHo was the key cog in rebuilding the giants in the early 80s. I mean come on. Do you realize how bad of an organization the patriots were?
Belechick arrived and they are good enough to make the Super Bowl. He leaves and they are average again.

You can show me all the stats you want. All they mean are Bill Belichick is an excellent Head Coach, which is not rocket science. As I said earlier he learned a majority of his stuff with parcells.
He learned a lot from his dad according to Roger Staubach who has known him since his days at the Naval academy when Bill was just a boy.

I never see people reference belichick's defense getting beat at home in the playoffs against the rams, blowing a lead on the final drive and then giving up a bomb for a td to lose in overtime. Same thing in 89, dont see many bring those seasons up.
But that isn't in the parameters of the discussion. The claim is that without Romeo and Weis, Little Bill is just as unsuccessful as Big Bill is without Little Bill.

Simply not true.

Belichick is great. Parcells is great. Together they are great.

WHy not just say Parcells is not a good coach without Ron earhardt.
You can if you feel the need to. Again, not the parameters.

and Give parcells Tom brady in Dallas and see what results you get.
If Tom failed in the final seconds against the Giants, probably another flight home with the pilots and an e-mailed resignation. It is just as honest to speculate that as if he had Brady.

better call the white suits on me. Parcells can stand all alone. He is great with little bill and great without him.
I can't agree. He is average. The results simply don't lie. I don't call the white suits unless you tell me you'd take Parcells over Belichick.

At one time I would have. I honestly would have. Never again. I don't think the guy has the backbone to stick it out. He was great in the 80's with the Giants and Belichick as his DC. He gets credit for rebuilding teams but even there with the Patriots the ONLY post season success he ever had was with Little Bill back as the DC.

To me, he's a lot more hype than substance despite being a great coach. I take Belichick over him any day of the week and twice on game day, especially if it's the post season.
 

CATCH17

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I've missed Parcells since the day he left.

This team spending more time with him wouldn't be a bad thing and it wouldve payed off more in the long run.
 

Shake_Tiller

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For the most part, I think coaching is a younger man's game. Parcells seemed worn and older than his years while he was here. He did a great job, though, putting together a winning organization and compiling talent. That was his strength in his time with the Cowboys, and it is a shame what he built appears to be getting dismantled so quickly.

Parcells has some great faults. He is a restless, restless guy, which doesn't lend itself to a stable coaching situation. At his best, though, he was a great motivator.

I miss Parcells as coach only because of what we've seen since. And I'm not quite as much of a Phillips basher as some. I don't think he's a great head coach, but I'm not sure he has much chance in this atmosphere.

The Cowboys need a very strong personality at head coach. It's too easy for Jones to steamroll anyone else, mostly unintentionally. Unfortunately it is hard to fit an ego the size of Jones' in the room with a comparable ego.
 

Bach

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Hostile;2592745 said:
I've already said this in this thread and don't feel the need to repeat it. Please keep up.

You didn't mention it in the post I read and quoted. For some reason you only felt the need to repeat the part about Campo, and I sure that was for a reason.
 

wileedog

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Hostile;2593071 said:
I can't agree. He is average. The results simply don't lie. I don't call the white suits unless you tell me you'd take Parcells over Belichick..

The results are skewed because time and again Parcells took over failed franchises and rebuilt them. He has inherited a series of utterly terrible rosters, and left behind him strong foundations both on the field and in the front office.

I agree with you on one thing - on game day, give me Belichick and his cameras over Bill any day.

But Belichick had Pioli in NE. He had people giving him terrific groceries throughout his time in NE.

Bill has bought his own, and cooked the dinners as well.

If my franchise is a 15-33 over 3 years disaster, give me Parcells.

If I'm looking to take a good team to the next level, give me Belichick.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Bill hasn't "inherited" those bad teams on accident. He's the Chainsaw Al Dunlap of the NFL. I suspect even he realizes that.

And yes, Belichick is far superior to Parcells as a coach.
 

percyhoward

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InmanRoshi;2592241 said:
Parcells was probably past his prime as a head coach, but there's no question he knows how to build a winning organization. And it's kind of funny how much of his organizational philosophy was criticized as being old fashioned and irrational suddenly has some logic behind it.

Then ...

"I'm sorry, but in this modern age you got to let the men be men and let the players be themselves. Eventually you just have to trust your players to do the right thing".

Today ...

"Players late for meetings. Players running their mouths. There's no discipline here and no accountability."

Then ....

"Why is Parcells so paranoid about the media? Why does he insist that he's the only one on his staff that talks? What's the big deal about letting his assistant coaches talk?"

Today ...

"This team just need to shut up and quit talking so much. We have people leaking stuff to the media and every other day we have someone on ESPN adding fuel to the fire."

Then ...

"Parcells wears players down. Guys like Romo and Witten have accomplished enough in the league that they don't have to be hounded all the time. Just let them go out and play."


Today ...

"Romo is fat and happy. He doesn't have the desire to be great. He's happy just being good enough."

Then ...

"In this modern age of offense, you just can't win with convervative game plans that just focus on the power running game and time of possession".

Today ...

"Next year we need to go back to a power running offense and quit asking Romo to sling it around all over the field"
This one kinda stood out to me.
 

theebs

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Hostile;2593071 said:
I didn't say that. Did I?

I don't need to. I know he's a good coach.

Belechick arrived and they are good enought to make the Super Bowl. He leaves and they are average again.

that completely ignores the tremendous job of rebuilding that team with a rookie qb. The pats in the early 90s were like the lions of this season. Terrible. 1-15 to 10-6 in two years with a rookie quarterback is pretty good. When belichick showed up that was a developed team years into the program. And the reality is, in 96 had denver not been upset and I am not sure they get to the superbowl, I was at the denver-pats game in 96 the broncos and elway destroyed them.

He learned a lot from hsi dad according to Roger Staubach who has known him since his days at the Naval academy when Bill was just a boy.
he learned alot from ted marchibroda also as he always talks about, but the structure and detail he uses is almost the identical blueprint of how parcells runs the operation. Now belichick is a master tactician. No doubt about it.

But that isn't in the parameters of the discussion. The claim is that without Romeo and Weis Little Bill is just as unsuccessful as Big Bill is without Little Bill.

Simply not true.
The common component there is Tom Brady. Not parcells or belichick. Its Brady which is the x factor. With bledsoe in there is nothing that indicates they go to the superbowl.

You can if you feel the need to. Again, not the parameters.

If Tom failed in the final seconds against the Giants, probably another flight home with the pilots and an e-mailed resignation. It is just as honest to speculate that as if he had Brady.

I can't agree. He is average. The results simply don't lie. I don't call the white suits unless you tell me you'd take Parcells over Belichick.
Its too hard to answer, they the same guy. Belichick and parcells are two of the best ever, its like asking if you would take knoll or landry. I would just flip a coin and hope I get brady along for the ride.

At one time I would have. I honestly would have. Never again. I don't think the guy has the backbone to stick it out. He was great in the 80's with the Giants and Belichick as his DC. He gets credit for rebuilding teams but even there with the Patriots the ONLY post season success he ever had was with Little Bill back as the DC.

Parcells and BB worked hand in hand running that defense. This is what I dont get about the revisionist history. Parcells was the lb coach and defensive coordinator, little bill was the special teams coach lb assistant. Parcells got the HC job and still was involved with the defense, belichick wasnt formally the coordinator until 85, but they both were running the defense all those years. They were actually both hired by the giants the same year 79. Belichick as an assitant and special teams coach and parcells as linebacker coach. Parcells wife refused to leave denver where their children were in school and parcells had to go back to denver, that was his missing year in coaching. He was then rehired as defensive coordinator in 81. Why its so difficult to understand that parcells is very much responsible for belichicks learning about defense and the game I will never understand.

and riddle me this, Howcome parcells gets the blame in Dallas for the defense struggling but belichick gets the credit in NY and New England in the years they won? Howcome parcells didnt get the credit for working with the defense also, he got all the blame in Dallas? Doesnt make any sense. Parcells and belichick always worked hand in hand. Linebackers were parcells specialty. Dont think for a second he didnt teach the special teams coach and former lions tight end coach a thing or two about coaching linebackers.

and your assertion that he failed in new england until belichick got there is so off its laughable. He took that team to 10-6 in two years. With a rookie quarterback and young players all over the field. He assembled a new staff he wasnt used to. He took the leagues worst team to the playoffs in two years and increased the win total by 8 games. 2-14 to 10-6 in two years, in a division with the powerhouse bills and a rookie quarterback. that is tremendous success. If winning or going to the superbowl is the only measure of success then there arent many good coaches.

It was the parcells influence and philosophy that turned the giants, patriots, jets and cowboys into winners. Its that same philosophy that belichick uses. again, dont think for a second that belichick a tight end/special teams coach didnt learn about linebackers from parcells, its lunacy.

To me, he's a lot more hype than substance despite being a great coach. I take Belichick over him any day of the week and twice on game, especially if it's the post season.

Hype? That is ridiculous. again, who built all those teams? WHo was the main guy. Its just a waste of time to even respond to him being hype.

and belichick has 15 post season wins, that is incredible. Tell me how many he has without Tom Brady. I know thats not the argument, but having a hall of famer at qb really is a trump card.

Bill belichick and Bill Parcells are two of the greatest coaches in the history of the league, you cant go wrong with either one. And they both can and have had success with and without each other. People love to use stats but leave out details. The patriots stats disprove everything you are trying to say and I am actually suprised you dont realize that.
 

theebs

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wow the formatting of my last post went to hell somehwere!! hopefully it is readable.
 

junk

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Chocolate Lab;2593149 said:
Bill hasn't "inherited" those bad teams on accident. He's the Chainsaw Al Dunlap of the NFL. I suspect even he realizes that.

And yes, Belichick is far superior to Parcells as a coach.

Sure he is. How did Belichick come into play? I don't why people are arguing that.

Parcells is a superior coach to Phillips. I don't think that can even be argued.

Maybe Parcells time was up, but he is and always will be a far superior coach to Cupcake.
 

Juke99

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Chocolate Lab;2593149 said:
Bill hasn't "inherited" those bad teams on accident. He's the Chainsaw Al Dunlap of the NFL. I suspect even he realizes that.

And yes, Belichick is far superior to Parcells as a coach.

On the nosey. Part of the Parcells brilliance is that he is very careful about the teams he goes after. He has consistently taken over teams that have no where to go but up..and his style, ball control, conservative, minimize mistakes tends to yield very fast results.
 

Juke99

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theebs;2593177 said:
and belichick has 15 post season wins, that is incredible. Tell me how many he has without Tom Brady. I know thats not the argument, but having a hall of famer at qb really is a trump card.

This kinda thing makes me crazy. :) People say stuff like this all the time. "Shanahan hasn't won anything without Elway" Gee, what did Landry win without Staubach?

Ya gotta have talent to win. We all know that.

Ya think part of Brady's success might have something to do with Belichick? Ya think part of Staubach's success might have had something to do with Landry? What exactly did Elway do prior to Shanahan?

It's a mix.

...there are plenty of coaches who have talent on their roster and don't win. If you have talent and you win, you've done your job as a coach.
 

theebs

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Chocolate Lab;2593149 said:
Bill hasn't "inherited" those bad teams on accident. He's the Chainsaw Al Dunlap of the NFL. I suspect even he realizes that.

And yes, Belichick is far superior to Parcells as a coach.


its about control. You are acting like he can only coach a bad team.

With a bad team you can start over and build from scratch, and your comments and jukes comments indicate that is easy Which is completely bogus.

If that were true it would happen all the time and it doesnt. We have been through this before.

If people could just show up to the bad teams and fix them they would, but it doesnt happen and usually most coaches fail in that situation and complain about not having qbs etc......

and saying belichick is FAR superior is another misnomer. They are both great. They operate the same way, they use the same prototype for players and people and they are both succesfull.

I love when people say parcells is a few inches is to the left of having only one sb title, but never ever bring up the tuck rule and how close belichick came to just losing in the playoffs with another franchise.

How did this start again? I am tired of arguing this topic with people. Most people dont even know a quarter of parcells history and just make these baseless comments off of his time in dallas and the jets.
 

silver

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well i for one miss BP way of handling the media and the team overall. he was what a real head coach should be. little bit of a control freak which it isn't necesarilly bad. tex schramm used to say that every organization needs a SOB. during landrys tenure he had Mike Ditka. Jimmy was a SOB same as BP. Not sure if we have one in this coaching staff. pretty much all of them are super nice guys. and it doesn't work that way, not by a long shot.
 

theebs

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Juke99;2593204 said:
This kinda thing makes me crazy. :) People say stuff like this all the time. "Shanahan hasn't won anything without Elway" Gee, what did Landry win without Staubach?

Ya gotta have talent to win. We all know that.

Ya think part of Brady's success might have something to do with Belichick? Ya think part of Staubach's success might have had something to do with Landry? What exactly did Elway do prior to Shanahan?

It's a mix.

...there are plenty of coaches who have talent on their roster and don't win. If you have talent and you win, you've done your job as a coach.

your making my point for me. All that together is what is great. You think bellichick is the coach he is today if he wasnt fortunate enough to learn under parcells and work hand in hand with him on those defenses in 81 and 82? Its silly. Of course he did. And seeing that he operates in the exact way parcells does or did even speaks to that more.

and like I said before, maybe we could have this same conversation with parcells and ron earhardt. He was a key coach in ny in the 80s too.

calling parcells below average or hype without belichick is absurd.
 

Juke99

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theebs;2593228 said:
your making my point for me. All that together is what is great. You think bellichick is the coach he is today if he wasnt fortunate enough to learn under parcells and work hand in hand with him on those defenses in 81 and 82? Its silly. Of course he did. And seeing that he operates in the exact way parcells does or did even speaks to that more.

and like I said before, maybe we could have this same conversation with parcells and ron earhardt. He was a key coach in ny in the 80s too.

calling parcells below average or hype without belichick is absurd.

Hello? I'm not making any point in any discussion about Belichick vs Parcells

Hello? Ya wanna point out where I even mentioned Parcells name?

Glad I could help make your point for you. As a moderator here I always pride myself on serving the membership well.
 
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