Is This Bledsoe's Last Hurrah???

[ravidubey]

Good post. Also to come from behind means you were not playing that great to begin with. :laugh2:

Joking aside, there's a lot to this, actually. Aikman was so efficient that he didn't need to engineer heroic comebacks to win. Aikman's arm strength and accuracy allowed the Cowboys to systematically attack the defense. I think this helps explain Aikman's uncanny ability to throw completions to the one-yard line. The Cowboys were confident they could score either running or passing so they focused on eating up big chunks of yards with the pass and didn't have to rely on it for TD's.

 

[peplaw06]

not only that his team has finished last or next to last in his division something like 10 out of 13 times

Yeah he was next to last in the division last year... at 9-7, one game out of the playoffs. This stat doesn't mean anything, especially now with 4 teams per division. Hell, he could have a winning record for his career with 9-7 third place finishes.

When the games have been the biggest his "greatness" has been scarcest. I don't put anyone who flops in big time games on a pedastal.

Is this the same argument as "never won the Super Bowl?" Because if so, I guess Dan Marino or Peyton Manning (who will probably end up holding most of the stat records) can't be considered. Manning hasn't even BEEN to a Super Bowl... yet. Peyton may end up winning one... if so, does he magically appear for consideration as greatest QB of all time, or was he there already?? Seriously, how many times has this argument been made? Great careers aren't defined SOLELY on Super Bowl wins. Look at the list of recent QBs who HAVE won the Super Bowl. Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer... these aren't GREAT QBs.

Like I said earlier in the thread, who knows what would have happened if Bledsoe hadn't been injured in NEs first Super Bowl run?

 

[Doomsday101]

Joking aside, there's a lot to this, actually. Aikman was so efficient that he didn't need to engineer heroic comebacks to win. Aikman's arm strength and accuracy allowed the Cowboys to systematically attack the defense. I think this helps explain Aikman's uncanny ability to throw completions to the one-yard line. The Cowboys were confident they could score either running or passing so they focused on eating up big chunks of yards with the pass and didn't have to rely on it for TD's.

I agree. I watched Elway and Marino throught out there careers and it was not all that uncommon to see them look very bad in the 1st half of a game, missing wideopen WR or throwing off target and then late in the game they would look all world fitting the ball into tight places and making the big play.

 

[Zaxor]

Yeah he was next to last in the division last year... at 9-7, one game out of the playoffs. This stat doesn't mean anything, especially now with 4 teams per division. Hell, he could have a winning record for his career with 9-7 third place finishes.

You have to be able to win in your divison and posting a winning record and finishing last or next to last in your divison at the same time gets you no where most of the time...just like last year...

 

[Kangaroo]

Yeah he was next to last in the division last year... at 9-7, one game out of the playoffs. This stat doesn't mean anything, especially now with 4 teams per division. Hell, he could have a winning record for his career with 9-7 third place finishes.



Is this the same argument as "never won the Super Bowl?" Because if so, I guess Dan Marino or Peyton Manning (who will probably end up holding most of the stat records) can't be considered. Manning hasn't even BEEN to a Super Bowl... yet. Peyton may end up winning one... if so, does he magically appear for consideration as greatest QB of all time, or was he there already?? Seriously, how many times has this argument been made? Great careers aren't defined SOLELY on Super Bowl wins. Look at the list of recent QBs who HAVE won the Super Bowl. Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer... these aren't GREAT QBs.

Like I said earlier in the thread, who knows what would have happened if Bledsoe hadn't been injured in NEs first Super Bowl run?

Most still Consider Cool Joe the best of all time because he got err done when it counted most

Now on marino and his stats look at when Marino put up his stats and when Bledsoe put up his

Marino put his up in an era when CB where allowed to touch yank and everything else to the wr and Bledsoe has thrown up tons of yards in a league set up to get tons of passing yards marino was better than Bledsoe in Completion % YPA and TD's not even a contest.

Yet despite all that Marino is still ranked below other QB's no ring period

Jeff George had more passing yards than Troy Aikman does that make Jeff a HOF QB ? Was Bledsoe head and shoulders above everyone in his era passing ? No but Marino was you have to compare Bledose to peers in his era and he does not measure up as a hof QB period

 

[cobra]

I understand what you are saying Hostile. If he ended his career right now, Bledsoe wouldn't be that impressive.

If he plays out his career and finishes #2 all time, that is impressive, but doesn't make him great. It is probably enough for the Hall of Fame, though.

If he wins a championship, I think he is a lock Hall of Famer.

His ultimate position among quarterbacks is necessarily based on present speculation because his career isn't over. If he bombs here on out, his rep will be reduced. If he can win some, then his position on the list will be bolstered.

But I take extreme umbrage with your suggestion that being #2 all time passer doesn't mean crap. While I agree with your assessment that stats aren't everything, they are *something.*

Quite simply, and I ask you to address this point if you want to argue this further, if what Bledsoe has done in his career thus far as a quarterback (and he does end up #2 all-time as it looks like he will) is not impressive and doesn't take special ability, then how come more quarterbacks don't have similar numbers?

There is no logical way to argue what he has done isn't special. If he was merely "ok" or "above average" then irrefutable logic would require it to be so that a good number of quarterbacks would be similarly situated statistically. If it were easy and didn't take skill, then he wouldn't be on the list where he is. When Bledsoe retires, it looks like only Marino has been able to be a better passer. Marino never won a Bowl either. Does that mean both of them aren't special? Of course not. It takes remarkable abilities to be the second best at something.

But again, I understand your point about "If"s, and you are right. Bledsoe has to write the final chapter in his book. But you cannot discredit what he has been able to do. While even if you gauge a quarterback's worth by how many rings he has, there is something irrefutable for statistics as a measure of comparison. One of the components of a great quarterback is his passing ability, and numbers don't lie: Bledsoe will go down as the #2 passer of all time (until Peyton passes him). Winning is also important, and Bledsoe hasn't done that yet. But even if you he doesn't ever win the big one, and his position as a winning quarterback is not manifest, no one can deny that he is one of the all-time best at an essential skill of a quarterbacks. He deserves credit for that.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Like I said earlier in the thread, who knows what would have happened if Bledsoe hadn't been injured in NEs first Super Bowl run?

Who know's what would have happened if I hadn't been born so good lookin.

 

[5Stars]

Who know's what would have happened if I hadn't been born so good lookin.

Easy...you would have been born ugly!

 

[SouthernStar]

Last Hurrah? No way! WHO is gonna replace him? He could lose both legs in a car accident and I'd be willing to bet Parcells would drag him out on the field and prop him up on a chair.

 

[joseephuss]

Yeah he was next to last in the division last year... at 9-7, one game out of the playoffs. This stat doesn't mean anything, especially now with 4 teams per division. Hell, he could have a winning record for his career with 9-7 third place finishes.



Is this the same argument as "never won the Super Bowl?" Because if so, I guess Dan Marino or Peyton Manning (who will probably end up holding most of the stat records) can't be considered. Manning hasn't even BEEN to a Super Bowl... yet. Peyton may end up winning one... if so, does he magically appear for consideration as greatest QB of all time, or was he there already?? Seriously, how many times has this argument been made? Great careers aren't defined SOLELY on Super Bowl wins. Look at the list of recent QBs who HAVE won the Super Bowl. Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer... these aren't GREAT QBs.

Like I said earlier in the thread, who knows what would have happened if Bledsoe hadn't been injured in NEs first Super Bowl run?

Bledsoe has played very poorly in the post season. Not just below average, but just bad. Peyton Manning deserves criticism for his playoff performances, but he still has fared better than Bledsoe in the post season. Mannings 89.1 QB rating in the post season is far better than Bledsoe's 54.9 rating. And every playoff game is a big game. In this past season's biggest games(at Washington and at New York), Drew did not play that well and neither did the team as a whole.

Manning isn't there yet as far as greatest QBs either. He is good and has produced great numbers, but he hasn't achieved all time great status. At least not in my eyes. Will he? Who knows?

Marino is up there because teams feared him and they also game planned to stop him. Bledsoe is and has been respected, but not feared.

 

[ravidubey]

You know where you Bledsoe guys ALWAYS lose me? Everything with you is predicated on an "IF." If he does this. If he does that. It's never about what he has already done.

Let me put all these "IFS" into perespective for you. If my Aunt had nads she'd be my uncle....

Good post. Where were all the Bledsoe nuts before he became a Cowboy? Seriously, right now Bledsoe belongs in the Hall of Very Good. I think he's awesome-- tough, strong, fine passer, great heart. But he hasn't been a winner.

How often does Drew make the psychologically back-breaking pass that kills the other team? I've seen him do it a couple of times in New England (with a broken finger on his throwing hand-- awesome), but never consistently enough. The Bills with their ridiculous OL and lack of offensive weapons helped make him look really, really bad and probably damaged his reputation forever in the eyes of many.

Drew is also twenty-five years too late to ride in based on stats like Fouts because now it's all been done. He'll never equal Marino and he didn't break new ground socially like Moon. At this point Bledsoe needs to end his career #2 all time in yards and win at least 1 (if not 2) Superbowl championship(s) as a starter.

He could do this, but the odds are not in his favor-- I'll sure as Hell be rooting for him!

 

[joseephuss]

Last Hurrah? No way! WHO is gonna replace him? He could lose both legs in a car accident and I'd be willing to bet Parcells would drag him out on the field and prop him up on a chair.

Unfortunately, Parcells would then replace him with Vinny T. Yikes!

 

[Zaxor]

Like I said earlier in the thread, who knows what would have happened if Bledsoe hadn't been injured in NEs first Super Bowl run?

NE had a Superbowl with Bledsoe as there QB...

http://www.superbowl.com/history/boxscores/game/sbxxxi

and Bledsoe threw an Int and another and another and another

Most Passes Had Intercepted, Game
5 Rich Gannon, Oakland vs. Tampa Bay, XXXVII
4 Craig Morton, Denver vs. Dallas, XII
Jim Kelly, Buffalo vs. Washington, XXVI
Drew Bledsoe, New England vs. Green Bay, XXXI
Kerry Collins, N.Y. Giants vs. Baltimore, XXXV

and he was sacked 5 times, 3 by Reggie White

 

[Zaxor]

Most still Consider Cool Joe the best of all time because he got err done when it counted most

Now on marino and his stats look at when Marino put up his stats and when Bledsoe put up his

Marino put his up in an era when CB where allowed to touch yank and everything else to the wr and Bledsoe has thrown up tons of yards in a league set up to get tons of passing yards marino was better than Bledsoe in Completion % YPA and TD's not even a contest.

Yet despite all that Marino is still ranked below other QB's no ring period

Jeff George had more passing yards than Troy Aikman does that make Jeff a HOF QB ? Was Bledsoe head and shoulders above everyone in his era passing ? No but Marino was you have to compare Bledose to peers in his era and he does not measure up as a hof QB period

ask him to check Vinny T's numbers :laugh2:

 

[Zaxor]

I understand what you are saying Hostile. If he ended his career right now, Bledsoe wouldn't be that impressive.

If he plays out his career and finishes #2 all time, that is impressive, but doesn't make him great. It is probably enough for the Hall of Fame, though.

If he wins a championship, I think he is a lock Hall of Famer.

His ultimate position among quarterbacks is necessarily based on present speculation because his career isn't over. If he bombs here on out, his rep will be reduced. If he can win some, then his position on the list will be bolstered.

But I take extreme umbrage with your suggestion that being #2 all time passer doesn't mean crap. While I agree with your assessment that stats aren't everything, they are *something.*

Quite simply, and I ask you to address this point if you want to argue this further, if what Bledsoe has done in his career thus far as a quarterback (and he does end up #2 all-time as it looks like he will) is not impressive and doesn't take special ability, then how come more quarterbacks don't have similar numbers?

There is no logical way to argue what he has done isn't special. If he was merely "ok" or "above average" then irrefutable logic would require it to be so that a good number of quarterbacks would be similarly situated statistically. If it were easy and didn't take skill, then he wouldn't be on the list where he is. When Bledsoe retires, it looks like only Marino has been able to be a better passer. Marino never won a Bowl either. Does that mean both of them aren't special? Of course not. It takes remarkable abilities to be the second best at something.

But again, I understand your point about "If"s, and you are right. Bledsoe has to write the final chapter in his book. But you cannot discredit what he has been able to do. While even if you gauge a quarterback's worth by how many rings he has, there is something irrefutable for statistics as a measure of comparison. One of the components of a great quarterback is his passing ability, and numbers don't lie: Bledsoe will go down as the #2 passer of all time (until Peyton passes him). Winning is also important, and Bledsoe hasn't done that yet. But even if you he doesn't ever win the big one, and his position as a winning quarterback is not manifest, no one can deny that he is one of the all-time best at an essential skill of a quarterbacks. He deserves credit for that.

besides all the IF he's look at Testeverdie's stats Bledsoe has thrown more passes than Vinny but they have just about the same numbers...so you are telling me that Vinny is a Great QB

 

[Doomsday101]

Given all the problems Dallas has had at QB since Troy left Bledsoe is a blessing. I think this is an area Dallas has to look at for the future hopefully with one of the guys we currently have if not then through the draft or trade. But for 2006 and possibly 2007 I'll happily take Drew Bledsoe

 

[cobra]

besides all the IF he's look at Testeverdie's stats Bledsoe has thrown more passes than Vinny but they have just about the same numbers...so you are telling me that Vinny is a Great QB

Highlighting all the "if's" in my post indicates to me you didn't bother to read it or try to understand what I was saying.

Trying reading this line again and it will explain it to you:
His ultimate position among quarterbacks is necessarily based on present speculation because his career isn't over.


As for the Vinny comparison: Vinny played a good number of years longer than Bledsoe, and Bledsoe will pass him this season with ease. If Bledsoe plays as long as Vinny did, he will pass Marino and be #1. They aren't comparable. Vinny was just impressive with his longevity, although he was a good quarterback.

 

[Hostile]

I understand what you are saying Hostile. If he ended his career right now, Bledsoe wouldn't be that impressive.

If he plays out his career and finishes #2 all time, that is impressive, but doesn't make him great. It is probably enough for the Hall of Fame, though.

If he wins a championship, I think he is a lock Hall of Famer.

His ultimate position among quarterbacks is necessarily based on present speculation because his career isn't over. If he bombs here on out, his rep will be reduced. If he can win some, then his position on the list will be bolstered.

But I take extreme umbrage with your suggestion that being #2 all time passer doesn't mean crap. While I agree with your assessment that stats aren't everything, they are *something.*

Quite simply, and I ask you to address this point if you want to argue this further, if what Bledsoe has done in his career thus far as a quarterback (and he does end up #2 all-time as it looks like he will) is not impressive and doesn't take special ability, then how come more quarterbacks don't have similar numbers?

There is no logical way to argue what he has done isn't special. If he was merely "ok" or "above average" then irrefutable logic would require it to be so that a good number of quarterbacks would be similarly situated statistically. If it were easy and didn't take skill, then he wouldn't be on the list where he is. When Bledsoe retires, it looks like only Marino has been able to be a better passer. Marino never won a Bowl either. Does that mean both of them aren't special? Of course not. It takes remarkable abilities to be the second best at something.

But again, I understand your point about "If"s, and you are right. Bledsoe has to write the final chapter in his book. But you cannot discredit what he has been able to do. While even if you gauge a quarterback's worth by how many rings he has, there is something irrefutable for statistics as a measure of comparison. One of the components of a great quarterback is his passing ability, and numbers don't lie: Bledsoe will go down as the #2 passer of all time (until Peyton passes him). Winning is also important, and Bledsoe hasn't done that yet. But even if you he doesn't ever win the big one, and his position as a winning quarterback is not manifest, no one can deny that he is one of the all-time best at an essential skill of a quarterbacks. He deserves credit for that.

I am so unconcerned with whether or not he's a Hall of Famer and all of his impressive stats that it just doesn't even register. Why should I care? Why do I need to be impressed by his numbers? This just doesn't register with me.

I'd feel exactly the same way if our QB was Brett Favre and he was a no doubt Hall of Famer. It's not limited to QBs. I'd feel this way if we got Curtis Martin or Deion Sanders coming back. What a player has done, even if over a long period of time, doesn't do anything for me. If we got Curtis Martin I won't be bragging to my friends that our RB has over 13,000 yards rushing. None of them were here.

I care about what he does here. All those impressive numbers don't mean anything to me. 9-7 means volumes. I need him to get us 2 games better than that minimum and in truth I expect 3 games better.

Understand something, I am pretty disappointed in Bledsoe's career. I am a Pac 10 guy. When he went to New England with Parcells I was sure he'd win 2 or 3 Super Bowls. New England did it, but he wasn't the guy in the saddle. I still like him, and now that he's a Cowboy I root for him more than ever, but if you want me to say he's been all I expected, I can't. I expected a lot more from him than impressive career stats.

The stats and ifs leave me flat.

 

[koolaid]

i hope drew sticks around a while, last season was the first time since troy that i wasnt afraid when i O took the field

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I am so unconcerned with whether or not he's a Hall of Famer and all of his impressive stats that it just doesn't even register. Why should I care? Why do I need to be impressed by his numbers? This just doesn't register with me.

I'd feel exactly the same way if our QB was Brett Favre and he was a no doubt Hall of Famer. It's not limited to QBs. I'd feel this way if we got Curtis Martin or Deion Sanders coming back. What a player has done, even if over a long period of time, doesn't do anything for me. If we got Curtis Martin I won't be bragging to my friends that our RB has over 13,000 yards rushing. None of them were here.

I care about what he does here. All those impressive numbers don't mean anything to me. 9-7 means volumes. I need him to get us 2 games better than that minimum and in truth I expect 3 games better.

Understand something, I am pretty disappointed in Bledsoe's career. I am a Pac 10 guy. When he went to New England with Parcells I was sure he'd win 2 or 3 Super Bowls. New England did it, but he wasn't the guy in the saddle. I still like him, and now that he's a Cowboy I root for him more than ever, but if you want me to say he's been all I expected, I can't. I expected a lot more from him than impressive career stats.

The stats and ifs leave me flat.

Well said.

Like I've always said, Bledsoe is an above average to good QB. In a good year he'll be a top 5 guy but for the most part he's usually in the top 10-15.

He's achieved numbers for two reasons:
1. Longevity.
2. He's been blessed with some offense coordinators that stressed the pass.
3. He played in an era where the rules favored the passing offense.

His most outstanding quality is the strong arm.

Secondly are his leadership skills.

But he's not the most accurate, his touch is poor on the short ball and of course we know about his lack of mobility and prepensity for fumbles.

I don't care If he ends up with the 2nd most passing yards of all-time.

He'll never be put in the same category as a passer as Fouts, Marino, Moon, Kelly, Farve, Manning or Tarkenton.

As a QB in general he ranks well below Staubach, Troy, Griese, Bradshaw, Montana, Stabler, Elway or Young in my opinion.

Montana
Young
Marino
Moon
Fouts
Roger
Troy
Tarkenton
Unitas
Kelly
Elway
Stabler
Bradshaw
Griese
Manning
Farve

There are 15 right there that are better than Bledsoe... all probably 5-10% better quite frankly.