Jerry Jones says Cowboys will NOT draft QB with no. 4 pick *Super Hot Pants Mega Merge*

[Risen Star]

Pollack always looks like a convicted murderer in photos.

Scan the group. Which one would you want to keep away from your wife and children?

 

[speedkilz88]

I don't think we'd go with Jack if we resign McClain. But I don't think it's a good reason to completely dismiss him either even if we do. I expect Lee to go down at some point, and I'm not sold on McClain staying healthy, out of trouble, and I believe what we've seen of McClain is all we'll ever get. An inconsistent player. I'd see Jack as competing with McClain while being great depth at a position we have had issue with these past few seasons. McClain isn't a longterm answer.

They're drafted two 4th round picks at that position, so there is depth with solid type talent already there.

 

[Nightman]

And one last thing, this team had three 1st round talents added to the roster last year, where was the "immediate impact"?

Yeah, that's what I thought...

BJones-CB 4th best at his position
RGregory-DE 2nd or 3rd at edge rusher
La'el Collins-OG 1st or 2nd OG

All great futures but you could almost trade 2 of them for Mariotta.

The chance that Goff or Wentz is a legit NFL QB is too big a risk to pass on.

 

[Zimmy Lives]

put him on a boat in the ocean with no paddles

Castaway Jerry?

 

[mattjames2010]

They're drafted two 4th round picks at that position, so there is depth with solid type talent already there.

We have Hitchens, Wilson is not proven and no need to even bring him up until he shows something. I wouldn't draft Jacks for depth alone, I would draft him to eventually be our starter. I don't see any kind of long term contract in McClain's future, I see a 2 year deal. McClain is not a reason to completely ignore the linebacker position.

 

[Stash]

This is pure ignorance, you have just exposed yourself for not looking at the game tape.

Jack has taken on blocks and is excellent at it because he can get off blocks with superior block deconstruction.

Jack has played all the positions in college, he has played the Mike at times with the Bruins as well.

Go learn the player properly before you further embarrass yourself.

Jack is best suited for the will but he can and has played all the linebacker positions in college at times.

His athleticism allows for this diversity and is the new type of NFL linebacker that can do it all.

Hilarious! Now we're creating a "new type of NFL linebacker" so there's some place that this guy fits!

 

[KJJ]

Here's a bit of info. If there was a "Peyton Manning in this group", we couldn't get him at #4 anyway, much less anywhere else in another draft. Last year, going into the 2015 season, Jared Goff was the consensus projected top quarterback. If you want to look at what he produced and tell me why that should be changed, feel free.




Romo hasn't had one complete year since 2012, much less "having three years". You count on that and it's your own fault when you fail. It's self-inflicted. And the facts show that there's significantly more potential to bust drafting anywhere after the first round. Anyone who takes a look at the playoff teams versus non-playoff teams will easily see who's ROYALLY SCREWED. Every team that went anywhere in the playoffs had first round quarterbacks, other than everyone's lone exception Tom Brady. If you want to make the case that Brady, Russel Wilson, or Romo are the rule rather than the rarest exception, I'd love to hear it.

And one last thing, this team had three 1st round talents added to the roster last year, where was the "immediate impact"?

Yeah, that's what I thought...

Goff was the projected #1 QB until Wenz's Senior Bowls workouts so that doesn't say much for him or Wenz. If a few WORKOUTS moves a QB ahead of one who was the projected #1 QB neither one is likely to be anything special. Wenz needed the Senior Bowl to get everyones attention because his college career didn't do it. Mayock said he didn't even know much about Wenz until the Senior Bowl. That's enough to scare me off from him at #4 overall. This isn't to say Wenz or Goff will go bust or won't develop into solid NFL starters but no one seems thrilled with either guy. Neither are looked at as being as good as Winston or Mariota. Some are saying Goff is more pro ready than Wenz but that Wenz has a higher ceiling that's something we hear almost every year with QBs coming out.

Romo not having completed a full season since 2012 doesn't mean you have to resort to using the 4th overall pick on a QB. You use a top 5 pick on a QB when you're desperate and don't have a viable NFL starter. If that QB doesn't pan out it's a major blow to your franchise. You can get by with a serviceable player at another position but not at QB unless you have a great team and defense around them where they're able to manage games. To be a championship team you have to land a top notch QB because it's very difficult to be a perennial playoff team without a top 10 NFL QB. With Romo still playing at a high level and not suffering injuries that he can't recover from the smart choice for the Cowboys is to try and help the defense with an immediate impact player and select a QB later in the first round or in the second round.

They can trade down from #4 overall and pick up at least a second round pick. They can use their top pick on a defensive player and one of their second round picks on a QB. They could also package one of their #2's with a #3 or a #4 and move back into the first round and select a QB. With my plan we'll end up with an immediate starter on defense and a QB who can hopefully develop into a solid backup and possibly Romo's replacement in 2-3 years.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Well, Jerry didn't say 'no' to a QB. Gil Brandt is saying he did. But, we don't know if that happened.

Anyway, I would go with Ramsey.

His athleticism, tackling ability and versatility helps fill a lot of holes in the secondary. And now you have two very athletic, very versatile and dynamic players in your secondary.

I also liked that he did all of the drills and tests at the combine.

The only other player that provides us with that dynamic ability and to a lesser extent, versatility is Myles Jack. However, he's really a WILL backer and I don't think he's suited to play the SAM or the WILL. What's crazy about him is that he could play strong safety and help out in the slot. But, I don't think he is a safety or a slot corner in the long run and I would be more tempted if he could legitimately be a top-tier MIKE or WILL backer. I also downgrade him over Ramsey because he didn't participate at the combine.

To me, with Ramsey (and Jones) we can do much more in our secondary. We can hopefully get a secondary that can now switch between zone and man coverages instead of playing man or zone and the opposing offense knowing what coverage we are in every time and where to go with the ball. I think the addition of Ramsey means a better tackling secondary and we won't get killed on bubble screens and pick plays so much. We also could use his speed to help defend those pick plays better.

With Jack, I only see him as a linebacker and he would be an improvement over what McClain gave us at the MIKE last year, but it's playing out of position for him. And perhaps we can pick up Jaylon Smith in the 3rd or 4th round to eventually replace Lee.

I still want QB though. Unless Lynch has an awful pro day, he's the guy I want. I think he has the largest ceiling of any of the QB's and could guide us well into the future.









YR

 

[Plankton]

Difference being, you don't need to draft an RB in the top 5 to get a bellcow back. They are found not only outside the top 5, but often outside the first round. With the comments the Jones made, with how they went about the RB position last year, only in fantasy land will we be drafted an RB at 4; so it's not even worth a discussion with me. That's not me saying halt that discussion for everyone, I'm saying it doesn't interest me because it doesn't look realistic. The same with QB and what we've been hearing from our staff.

That argument can be used for any position - Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round, Kurt Warner and Tony Romo were UDFAs. Brett Favre was a second rounder who ultimately got traded. With any position, the higher that you draft them, the better the chances are that you are taking a known quantity. What separates the great scouts/GMs from the average to poor ones is finding the elite player outside of the first round.

 

[Stash]

Goff was the projected #1 QB until Wenz's Senior Bowls workouts so that doesn't say much for him or Wenz. If a few WORKOUTS moves a QB ahead of one who was the projected #1 QB neither one is likely to be anything special. Wenz needed the Senior Bowl to get everyones attention because his college career didn't do it. Mayock said he didn't even know much about Wenz until the Senior Bowl. That's enough to scare me off from him at #4 overall. This isn't to say Wenz or Goff will go bust or won't develop into solid NFL starters but no one seems thrilled with either guy. Neither are looked at as being as good as Winston or Mariota. Some are saying Goff is more pro ready than Wenz but that Wenz has a higher ceiling that's something we hear almost every year with QBs coming out.

Aaron Rodgers had the exact same thing happen to him. He was also the consensus #1 quarterback until right before the draft and he inexplicably dropped and the 49'ers drafted Alex Smith. How does that look in retrospect? Should we downgrade Rodgers because people got stupid back then too? Both of these guys you're trying to call into question are ranked in the top 10. If "no one seems thrilled with either guy", why are both going in the top 10?

Romo not having completed a full season since 2012 doesn't mean you have to resort to using the 4th overall pick on a QB. You use a top 5 pick on a QB when you're desperate and don't have a viable NFL starter. If that QB doesn't pan out it's a major blow to your franchise. You can get by with a serviceable player at another position but not at QB unless you have a great team and defense around them where they're able to manage games. To be a championship team you have to land a top notch QB because it's very difficult to be a perennial playoff team without a top 10 NFL QB. With Romo still playing at a high level and not suffering injuries that he can't recover from the smart choice for the Cowboys is to try and help the defense with an immediate impact player and select a QB later in the first round or in the second round.

Apparently to people like you, it means "3 more years". And you don't "get by with a serviceable quarterback", that's unsupportable, complete and utter nonsense! This stuff isn't even worthy of response it's so off the wall and without merit.

They can trade down from #4 overall and pick up at least a second round pick. They can use their top pick on a defensive player and one of their second round picks on a QB. They could also package one of their #2's with a #3 or a #4 and move back into the first round and select a QB. With my plan we'll end up with an immediate starter on defense and a QB who can hopefully develop into a solid backup and possibly Romo's replacement in 2-3 years.

I'm done with you. You haven't supported or justified a single thing you've claimed in this ramble and I won't waste any more time debating someone who can't support a single thing they're trying to claim. You should be embarrassed.

 

[mattjames2010]

That argument can be used for any position - Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round, Kurt Warner and Tony Romo were UDFAs. Brett Favre was a second rounder who ultimately got traded. With any position, the higher that you draft them, the better the chances are that you are taking a known quantity. What separates the great scouts/GMs from the average to poor ones is finding the elite player outside of the first round.

Yes, but you're pointing to exceptions. Brady and Romo's are rare in this league, bellcow backs outside of the first or even second? Not rare. It's really not the same.

 

[speedkilz88]

We have Hitchens, Wilson is not proven and no need to even bring him up until he shows something. I wouldn't draft Jacks for depth alone, I would draft him to eventually be our starter. I don't see any kind of long term contract in McClain's future, I see a 2 year deal. McClain is not a reason to completely ignore the linebacker position.

Jack isn't proven either and he would be re-drafting where they already have talent at a position that doesn't need to be drafted so high. LBs in a 4-3 are easier to obtain.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Hilarious! Now we're creating a "new type of NFL linebacker" so there's some place that this guy fits!

Hilarious, you failed to watch the game tape and embarressed yourself.

This game tape demonstrates him playing the Mike, taking on blocks and edge rushing, the things you declared he had not done..LOL.

If you do not know the prospects do some research before you start declaring absolutes.

Even a base level view of reputable evaluators would do you some good with reference to Myles Jack, you apparently do not understand the player and have not done any research.

 

[casmith07]

I was pretty much of the belief that Dallas would skip on a QB with their 4th and now Jerry has come out and said it. So if Tunsil and Wentz will go 1-2 and Dallas can't trade back, that would leave one of the following guys available:

DeForest Buckner, DE
Joey Bosa, DE
Jalen Ramsey, CB/S
Myles Jack, LB
Ezekiel Elliot, RB

Who are you picking?

My "NFL GM senses" say to pick Myles Jack, but I can see us drafting Zeke for some reason.

 

[Stash]

Hilarious, you failed to watch the game tape and embarressed yourself.

This game tape demonstrates him playing the Mike, taking on blocks and edge rushing, the things you declared he had not done..LOL.

If you do not know the prospects do some research before you start declaring absolutes.

Even a base level view of reputable evaluators would do you some good with reference to Myles Jack, you apparently do not understand the player and have not done any research.

Sure thing. And you base everything on a select bit of tape and what a few internet nerds to tell you what your opinion is. All the while ignoring the mediocre numbers that the player has actually produced. And the established fact that he is a run and chase player whose biggest issue is how he handles the inside run. But you go right ahead and keep 'projecting' him to middle linebacker.

 

[Rogerthat12]

Sure thing. And you base everything on a select bit of tape and what a few internet nerds to tell you what your opinion is. All the while ignoring the mediocre numbers that the player has actually produced. And the established fact that he is a run and chase player whose biggest issue is how he handles the inside run. But you go right ahead and keep 'projecting' him to middle linebacker.

Not a little bit of tape, see again you have failed to actually put in the time on the player.

You said he has NEVER played the Mike, you were wrong.

Further, I never projected him at Mike, I just know, based on his game tape that he has and can play the Mike at 245lbs.

The evaluators simply have watched the game tape, unlike you!

You have formed opinions on a player without actually looking at his game tape..LOL.

Again, you have failed to watch the game tape, Jack is excellent in run support and in coverage, hence why most evaluators and scouts have him in the top five.

Your argument is a straw man because Jack can play all of the positions even if he best fits at the will.

Everything you initially claimed has been proven false by the game tape, you are just making crap up at this point.

Best to actually study a prospect before declaring anything in the Draft Zone.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

I think that you should send an email to the NFL.com website and have them correct their description of Jared Goff.

BOTTOM LINE
While Goff is a little leaner in the lower body than teams might like, he has good size, an NFL arm, advanced pocket mobility and the field demeanor of a franchise quarterback. His accuracy and decision making will suffer from occasional lapses, but he displays the tools to become a good starting quarterback with time.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/jared-goff?id=2555334

Sure, but give me time. I'm still e-mailing all those who thought Ryan Leaf was a franchise QB.

Thanks for the chuckle above: "[traits] of a franchise QB" and then followed in the next sentence with ..."he displays the tools to become a good starting quarterback with time."

 

[KJJ]

Aaron Rodgers had the exact same thing happen to him. He was also the consensus #1 quarterback until right before the draft and he inexplicably dropped and the 49'ers drafted Alex Smith. How does that look in retrospect? Should we downgrade Rodgers because people got stupid back then too? Both of these guys you're trying to call into question are ranked in the top 10. If "no one seems thrilled with either guy", why are both going in the top 10?



Apparently to people like you, it means "3 more years". And you don't "get by with a serviceable quarterback", that's unsupportable, complete and utter nonsense! This stuff isn't even worthy of response it's so off the wall and without merit.



I'm done with you. You haven't supported or justified a single thing you've claimed in this ramble and I won't waste any more time debating someone who can't support a single thing they're trying to claim. You should be embarrassed.

The Aaron Rodgers situation along with Tom Brady being a 6th round pick and Russell Wilson being a 3rd round pick shows how unpredictable drafting a QB is. When QBs start rising and falling as the draft approaches that points to something being wrong with the grading process. If you spend too much time focusing on pre draft workouts and not game tape you're likely going to end up with a QB who's going to set your franchise back. Alex Smith's stock started edging out Rodgers in the days leading up to the draft because the experts overanalyze them like they do all the top players. They beat the draft to death poking and prodding these players looking for every way possible to raise and lower their stock so they can have fun with their mock drafts. Mayock will probably have Goff back as his #1 QB by April when they start having their pro days. No one knows how college QBs are going to develop at the NFL level it's a big jump that most good college QBs can't make. More fail at the NFL level than succeed so your odds on landing a "solid" starting NFL QB is less than 50/50....FACT!

You're done with me because you can't refute a single thing I've said it's all based on facts. Every time you attempt to debate me I have you running for the hills. lol You're the one who should feel embarrassed initiating discussions that cause you to become frustrated and leave because you don't have a twig to stand on. You started this debate and you got shot down! Try bringing some real ammo to these discussions instead of a roll of caps that do nothing but produce smoke. You're not going to win a championship with a "serviceable" QB in this day and age unless you have a GREAT defense, great coaching and a very solid team around that QB that allows them to manage games. If you end up with nothing more than a "serviceable" QB at #4 overall you've FAILED and will once again be looking for a franchise QB in the top 10. The Cowboys wouldn't win 5 games with a "serviceable" QB because they're too QB dependent due to having such an average defense that can't force turnovers or rush the passer.

 

[CATCH17]

If Marinelli has seriously changed our defense to we-fense that might allow us to look to more offensive players in the draft.

I should start a thread about this in the Fan Zone.

Romoffense.

 

[Sarge]

For some reason I believe he totally telling the truth.