Jerry Jones Sure Makes a Good Scapegoat

[Hostile]

Have labeled you in any way, though you implied that I should be dragged away to the funny farm.



Is that your lame "word of the day" or something? I think a big bad wolf needs to blow that down.

I think you and I would have a ball at the funny farm. I don't know how you can think I was implying that about you while I was responding to Bach?

Three or four of you threw out the Einstein definition of insanity and I turned it around and used it back. Nothing more.

You want me to call this gaslight comedy instead?

 

[SultanOfSix]

Seems that you've stepped back from your checklist (now debunked) and are taking refuge in the Jerry won't leave so you should routine.

Last year's playoff loss was so embarrassing and they were so unprepared and pampered going into it that I thought surely they would get some of the issues resolved prior to the start of the season - so I had some hope, the draft looked pretty good as well, then came the pre-season and the soap operatic hard knocks and I knew nothing had changed. Lots of penalties, bad special teams, non-NFL caliber back-up QB play, softness compared to other teams that we scrimmaged with etc.

Can't get fooled again. There is no hope for an undisciplined team - smarter football minds than mine would agree. I have yet to hear a single source (ex Cowboy - insider, ex Coach, player analysts) suggest that this team just is a player or 2 away from success - it's all about chemistry and leadership none of which you get with a yes man coach who was drummed out of Denver for losing control of his team and fired in Buffalo for refusing to dismiss an underperforming special teams coach.

This is the guy that Jerry wants to keep on for continuity sake? There will of course be continuous elements, like downward spiraling performance, JJ undermining Wade with the players, TO imploding, and lots of coverage of Jerry on TV.

I agree with your point on discipline. If you turn the ball over less, your chances for victories improve. The latter you can improve on. However, chemistry and leadership are the most overused terms I have ever heard in football. How do you define the intangible except for victories? But, then what does that mean when you say such things are lacking because of the losses? Nothing really.

 

[Hostile]

this isnt' about your admin hat, please understand that

just you've been around here a long time, being an admin only underscores that fact, and which is why I pointed it out, arguments like these happen, opposing someone's viewpoint just because it's not going to happen is weak, you pointing out it's futility is even weaker

You have no right whatsoever to drop the hat on me when I am not wearing it. Period.

If you don't think I can separate my opinions from the job I do then write to Reality and ask that I be removed. I promise I won't fight for my job here.

I was not in any way, shape, or form going Admin on you or anyone else. No one in this thread has received a PM from me that was a warning, infraction, suspension, or ban. Not one single person. If I disagree with people and they can't handle the fact that I may have a differing opinion than they then they can kiss my ***. I am not going to shut up just so no one has to have the Admin disagree with them. On the forum we are not Mods. We all hate to put those hats on. We'd much rather just enjoy the debates like everyone else.

That label was completely unfair and insulting. I have opinions and I am a blabbermouth. That's life.

 

[bbgun]

Denigrating Jerry over and over again, especially on a fan forum, isn't going to make him leave.

This is true. I've insulted Sultan for years but he still keeps coming back.

It's only going to annoy other posters who reside on this forum.

Heaven forbid! What do you think this is, a forum for a diverse range of opinions? Get real. The mental health of the apologists is the highest priority, so please try not to disturb them with inconvenient thoughts and opinions. Gracias.

Your solution to the problem is to remove someone you no power to remove.

Yes, it's called a good old-fashioned protest. Some work, some don't.

In absence of this, you ***** and complain constantly without providing any other solutions.

The solution is painstakingly obvious: hire a real GM.

JJ the GM HAS gotten better.

Irrelevant, even if it were true. No other GM would have been given the opportunity to get better. But if you're Jerry, it's good to be the king.

Anyone who isn't biased will see this.

That leaves you out.

What we can do is hope that he continues to get better, and this results in a championship, because that is what positive people do. They don't wish that he fails so they can brandish their egos that they were right

Hope is not a strategy. The Giants' owner didn't "hope" he'd make the right personnel moves; instead, he acknowledged his limitations and hired a real GM. Time for some long overdue humility in Dallas.

 

[Hostile]

not at all. you're wasting your own time defending our clown owner and "Gm"

Damn I'm good. I was off by one word on what your droning, mostly monosyllabic reply would be. I did not have the word clown in it.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

You have no right whatsoever to drop the hat on me when I am not wearing it. Period.

If you don't think I can separate my opinions from the job I do then write to Reality and ask that I be removed. I promise I won't fight for my job here.

I was not in any way, shape, or form going Admin on you or anyone else. No one in this thread has received a PM from me that was a warning, infraction, suspension, or ban. Not one single person. If I disagree with people and they can't handle the fact that I may have a differing opinion than they then they can kiss my ***. I am not going to shut up just so no one has to have the Admin disagree with them. On the forum we are not Mods. We all hate to put those hats on. We'd much rather just enjoy the debates like everyone else.

That label was completely unfair and insulting. I have opinions and I am a blabbermouth. That's life.

*sigh* you don't get it

I'm not saying any of that, all I'm saying is that this is a typical Cowboyzone argument, and you should know better, we don't need you to point out the futility of our side

I'm not saying you're trying to muscle the discussion to a close because you are an admin, please, PLEASE understand that

 

[Rampage]

Damn I'm good. I was off by one word on what your droning, mostly monosyllabic reply would be. I did not have the word clown in it.

you're so witty. though you seem upset that you being the forum favorite and having everyone disagree with you on this current subject. I thought you were different. I sure hope that Roy Williams trade works out cause so far you look terrible after that. awaiting a snotty/witty response from the forum favorite...

 

[Hostile]

You yourself said that GMs have little to do with Super Bowl titles, so why would an ancillary, insignificant figure like Jerry wear a ring? Or maybe "Jerry the owner" gets to wear it. I bet there's a cute little explanation/double standard right around the corner ...



And there it is. Please don't combine Jerry jocksniffing with utter predictability. You're better than that.



Oh crap! Hos is playing to type. Again.

I love how the argument changes when someone utterly fails to read. Which is what you did since you interpreted my post without really looking into what I was replying to.

You can knock off the jocksniffing comments. You're the one who called for decorum remember? Don't escalate after you've asked for that.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Oh here we go. The logic is flawed in a discussion about hypothetical changes. Really? Isn't that EXACTLY my point?

Not sure what your point was other than to argue one flawed logic point with another flawed logic point. Hence the reason I thought you were playing devil's advocate but you assure me you are not so I admit it, you lost me with that merry go round.

I actually think both sides are doing that. Bach and I don't agree on Jerry Jones, but I have heard him say the 2008 Draft class is all he could hope for and more.

Well I don't know not all posters sure. But when I see things like Jerry had nothing to do with the superbowl success of the 90s team or that it is inferred that he should not wear a Superbowl Ring as an owner...then I think things are going a tad too far IMO.

And I do think he could.

Honestly BP I get it. I just don't agree. You asked me. I said my answer would not placate you. It didn't. I know my beliefs on this subject will not be popular here in Salem. But they are mine and I'm not spin controlling anything or playing devil's advocate. I was asked an honest question and I supplied an honest answer. Either you can be cool with that or you can't. I'll get over it if you can't. I'll get over it if these other guys can't. They are free to lose respect for me if they so wish. It will not be a two way street.

It never has been.

Well I think it is obvious now that you think he could, just as it is obvious to others that they think he can not. The only thing we can judge it on is his history this decade and it tilts more one way than the other.

Whether I am cool with it or not really does not amount to a hill of beans. We all have opinions and we all argue or debate those. Par for the course as far as I am concerned. I am not going to whine about it. Just debating.
As far as someone losing respect or not...honestly who cares. They don't like it, I don't like it, you don't like it...meh. It is a board to discuss ideas and I don't see anyone breaking the rules so it is all good IMO.

Heck I would say this is mild mannered simple debating compared to some things we have argued about in the past.:laugh2:

 

[Hostile]

*sigh* you don't get it

I'm not saying any of that, all I'm saying is that this is a typical Cowboyzone argument, and you should know better, we don't need you to point out the futility of our side

I'm not saying you're trying to muscle the discussion to a close because you are an admin, please, PLEASE understand that

Yeah you did.

Understand that.

 

[wileedog]

Would you please point out for me the perfect GM in the NFL. The guy who has made no mistakes. I want to go kiss that man's feet.

WHat he has done wrong has far, far outweighed what he has done right.

Of course everyone makes mistakes. Saying he's not perfect is not a defense.

And I think this is an over-simplified gut reaction to what he does contribute.

As you like to say, I disagree. So far the track record favors me.

I don't fault Jerry for liking the spotlight.

I do when he puts it in front of the team. And he does or Jimmy would still be here.

All of his coaches are inexperienced? Really? You want to stick with that story or research the truth on your own?

You're being obtuse. Wade is the lame duck. Garrett is inexperienced. Stewart and Reed were ineffective (to be kind).

I don't agree

*shrug*

See, that's the thing, I'm just naive enough to think there isn't one single problem. Hence my audacity to think differently about this subject.

Of course there is not one single problem. However Jerry himself has created the situation where there is one person who created most of them, and one person who ultimately can fix them. Because no one else has the authority to do so.

If he wants the credit, he gets the blame.

I haven't said we don't need to change things. Not once, not ever. Isn't even part of the conversation here Wilee.

And I didn't say you did. Now who is throwing up strawmen?

And I never said Jerry was a scapegoat, and just tossing him out fixes everything. You're right, you need to find someone else and start that process - I would just rather do it sooner than later as I think we are wasting some prime years of some of our better players.

But if you don't believe the problems on this team were caused by Jerry the GM and his craving for the spotlight and credit, by his lack of willingness to be challenged, and by his own style over substance method of doing things, nothing I am going to say is going to convince you otherwise. Doesn't mean I don't have the evidence and track record on my side.

As you mentioned, Jerry isn't going anywhere. Personally I think we have another 1-3 year slide before Jerry 'gets it' again and steps aside (some) to hire a real coach and give him the keys like he did with Parcells (no, he'll never hire a GM, I agree with that).

So it looks like we'll see whose right eventually no matter what I say.

 

[Doomsay]

I'd be tempted to do the same thing he's doing. I can think of few things more interesting than managing the personnel of an NFL team. I have zero interest in coaching, but being a GM, I'd love to do that.

Jerry's ego demands he get the credit Jimmy got 15 years ago, and the fans continued financial support of the team has allowed him to get away with it all these years. Now that he has a new stadium, why not continue his little excercize in futility?

I'd hoped the team getting booed off the field after the Baltimore embarrassment might cause him to reconsider, and had a feint hope after Sunday, one of the worst losses in team history. It appears to have only entrenched him. It's basically a big middle finger to the fans, which is what some season ticket holders who called into ESPN radio said this morning.

If God could show Jerry a future with him as GM - sort of a football version of A Christmas Carol - that invoved winning no Super Bowls, and a version that showed him hiring a legitimate GM and winning 5 in the next 10 years, I have little doubt he'd keep himself as GM.

Great Post - the Christmas Carol bit should be one of those clunky short cartoons that I've seen occasionally on the net available to all Dallas Fans. IMO Jerry sort of rode the team down in-step with the decline of the stars from the Super Bowl era. So he had some cover from the general public in-terms of responsibility for the demise. Then after a somewhat public mia-culpa associated with hiring a real football man in Parcells, and more importantly in ceding most of the control of the team to him, he really set himself up for public humiliation by trying to reverse direction by hiring a patsy and seizing personal control again.

That worked OK in the beginning of last year with some luck in the schedule and Romo's hot hand. But really does seem to be unwinding now with a fractured coaching staff incapable of adjusting to opposing teams' adjustments. The inevitable continuation of this trend will firmly establish him as a meddling loser with the credit for the Super Bowls firmly on Jimmy's shoulders and the Blip of success in this decade firmly on Bill's. Add to that the nightmare of an over-priced mausoleum to a failed dynasty in a down economy and you've got an interesting change of fortunes for a guy that seemed invincible only a year or so ago.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Yeah you did.

Understand that.

who's on 1st?

whatever dude, keep on thinking that I give 2 ****s about you

 

[bbgun]

You can knock off the jocksniffing comments. You're the one who called for decorum remember? Don't escalate after you've asked for that.

Oh please, you're no stranger to that word, so spare me your case of the vapors. Sultan called me an "idiot" earlier today and I moved right along. That's how it's done.

 

[SultanOfSix]

This is true. I've insulted Sultan for years but he still keeps coming back.

Which implies that you're insane if that was your intention. But, thanks for substantiating in words such a situation is applicable in your case. I'm sorry that you had to step in your own ****.

Heaven forbid! What do you think this is, a forum for a diverse range of opinions? Get real. The mental health of the apologists is the highest priority, so please try not to disturb them with inconvenient thoughts and opinions. Gracias.

Opinions are one thing. Providing the same negative one repetitively as if your modus operandi serves no other purpose than to annoy others.

Here's a reality check for you bbgun. People don't like to be constantly criticized. It antagonizes them and drives them further away. Positive people know that others have faults, and try their best to help them improve upon them. They don't constantly **** on them and say they are being realistic.

The notion that you have no friends in real life is probably quite truthful if the behavior you exhibit on this forum is any indication of how you deal with people in reality.

Yes, it's called a good old-fashioned protest. Some work, some don't.

No. It's called insanity as described above.

The solution is painstakingly obvious: hire a real GM.

So go and do it then. Do you have the power? No. Then shut up about it because it's not going to help.

Irrelevant, even if it were true. No other GM would have been given the opportunity to get better. But if you're Jerry, it's good to be the king.

Well such is the reality of the situation. He is the owner and he is the GM so its not applicable. Too bad for you. Perhaps you can make enough money and then purchase the team from him and run it the way you feel like it.

That leaves you out.

Yes, I have my biases. Unfortunately, people like you are over the edge in yours.

Hope is not a strategy. The Giants' owner didn't "hope" he'd make the right personnel moves; instead, he acknowledged his limitations and hired a real GM. Time for some long overdue humility in Dallas.

Who said hope was a strategy? I have no control over the situation. I have no authority and therefore don't live in a dream world where I think *****ing and complaining on a forum is going to change things. But, I do hope he continues to get better because he has. At least, there is evidence for that. That is what positive people do and I know you don't understand things that don't exist in the delusional world you live in, such as optimism.

 

[Hostile]

you're so witty. though you seem upset that you being the forum favorite and having everyone disagree with you on this current subject. I thought you were different. I sure hope that Roy Williams trade works out cause so far you look terrible after that. awaiting a snotty/witty response from the forum favorite...

I doubt very seriously that I am a forum favorite. The biggest blabbermouth? Oh hell yeah. But I know many on here don't like me and I am fine with it. There's an entire other Cowboys forum who hate my guts. Big damn deal. I should give a crap that they are too weak to hang? I don't.

I am different. I sometimes agree with people. I sometimes disagree with them. Unlike you, when you disagree with me I won't lose any respect.

I look bad for sharing the news we were going to acquire Roy Williams. Boy grow up.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

so far Jerry supporters have defended Jerry with

wait, what has the argument been again?

 

[Hostile]

WHat he has done wrong has far, far outweighed what he has done right.

Of course everyone makes mistakes. Saying he's not perfect is not a defense.

Wilee, I want to apologize to you up front. I have complete respect for you as a poster and enjoy reading your posts. I'm not even going to read beyond these lines for this post. I am sorry to drag it out, have you go to all that work, and then I am going to totally ignore that. I don't mean it to be disrespectful in any way.

We are not going to agree on this. We simply aren't. I will never agree with that first line. There is no need for me to pursue this and waste your time. I end this with respect. Hope you won't take it wrong.

 

[Doomsay]

I agree with your point on discipline. If you turn the ball over less, your chances for victories improve. The latter you can improve on. However, chemistry and leadership are the most overused terms I have ever heard in football. How do you define the intangible except for victories? But, then what does that mean when you say such things are lacking because of the losses? Nothing really.

It's hard to define good chemistry / attitude, but it is required for success. You could see it in the Eagles and it was missing with us. Bad chemistry is players screaming at each other on the sidelines, in the press. Pointing fingers at each other (Roy 38), criticizing their coaches publicly etc. Giving up on plays both offensive + defensive - "who cares"?

I rarely see any of that from Indy or NE. The Giants had rashes of it, but for the most part management let Tom get rid of these players or silence them. This team has the capacity to do great things, one of the most talented in Dallas history, yet they don't seem to care because they play like individuals - Irvin saw it plane as day.

 

[Rampage]

I doubt very seriously that I am a forum favorite. The biggest blabbermouth? Oh hell yeah. But I know many on here don't like me and I am fine with it. There's an entire other Cowboys forum who hate my guts. Big damn deal. I should give a crap that they are too weak to hang? I don't.

I am different. I sometimes agree with people. I sometimes disagree with them. Unlike you, when you disagree with me I won't lose any respect.

I look bad for sharing the news we were going to acquire Roy Williams. Boy grow up.

#1 very hypocritical of you with what some of you guys have said to me before.

#2 you don't know what you're talking about.

#3 you look bad for hyping that trade up and him coming hear and looking like a bum. having Asante finish his routes for him. but i'll give you next year before I have a final opinion on it. so far the Lions got the better end of the deal though.