Jerry not interested on making changes w/Zack Martins contract?

TheMarathonContinues

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Philly has very good interior OL. Kelce is arguably the best OC in football. Dickerson was one of the best 10-15 OGs in football.

It's hilarious watching people try to convince themselves we are just fine without Martin.
I think you're missing it here though. Dickerson is a top 10-15 OG like you stated. He was a second round pick. This goes back to my point you don't need the best guard in football to contender. Dickerson is nowhere near as good as Zack Martin.
 

mrmojo

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You cant just plug and play on the O line, the guards and center are keys to getting the right blocking scheme in place and that takes continuity....Martin is the straw that stirs the drink....if Jerry is talking SB he has to be in there......sign him already.
 

Sydla

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I think you're missing it here though. Dickerson is a top 10-15 OG like you stated. He was a second round pick. This goes back to my point you don't need the best guard in football to contender. Dickerson is nowhere near as good as Zack Martin.
To say that Philly doesn't have quality interior OL, ergo we can get by without Martin, is silliness. One, because Martin clearly makes the other two alongside him better. Biadasz and Steele aren't nearly as good when having some random guy between them. Conversely, while Dickerson is a very good interior OL, he also has the best C in football on one side and one of the better young LTs on the otherside. Philly doesn't "need" to have a really good OG there. Nevertheless they do. But even if they didn't because they have Kelce and Mialata they likely could still have a quality OL with a lesser LG.

We don't have that luxury. We, on the otherhand, absolutely need a high level OG because of the way our OL is built. If Martin, for whatever reason, doesn't play in 2023, this team isn't contending for a SB. His not being there has a massive trickle down to where now you don't have a RG problem, you have a right side of the OL problem. And then if Tyron goes down, which he has for a few seasons, suddenly the entire OL is screwed. Tyler Smith can't fix it all.
 

Corso

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well it was mine at the onset, LOL. Sheesh...
I understand that. Just the way you phrased it irked me a little because at the beginning of his career he was trying to get paid.
It wasn't till a bit later, after marrying Giselle, that he started settling for relatively cheap contracts.

So yes, he was definitely underpaid according to the market, but he didn't spend his "entire career" trying to be so.

I guess I'm just yelling at the wind for no good reason and for that, my apologies.
I didn't mean to get into an argument over it.
 

Flamma

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What exactly does Martin want? More money right now? Or just an extension with more guaranteed money? One is very different than the other. He's a 23M cap hit next year, so I think it's safe to say he's getting an extension. I'm wondering what the issue is, exactly.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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To say that Philly doesn't have quality interior OL, ergo we can get by without Martin, is silliness. One, because Martin clearly makes the other two alongside him better. Biadasz and Steele aren't nearly as good when having some random guy between them. Conversely, while Dickerson is a very good interior OL, he also has the best C in football on one side and one of the better young LTs on the otherside. Philly doesn't "need" to have a really good OG there. Nevertheless they do.

We on the otherhand absolutely need a high level OG because of the way our OL is built. If Martin, for whatever reason, doesn't play in 2023, this team isn't contending for a SB. His not being there has a massive trickle down to where now you don't have a RG problem, you have a right side of the OL problem. And then if Tyron goes down, which he has for a few seasons, suddenly the entire OL is screwed. Tyler Smith can't fix it all.
I don't disagree there. Martin does make Steels job easier. Or did. But is Martin the only guard Steele can play next to? I don't think so. WE would miss Martin don't get me wrong. But I stand by you can get away with a B level right guard in his place. Now finding that guy is the question. I don't think he's on the roster unless it's Tyler Smith.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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What exactly does Martin want? More money right now? Or just an extension with more guaranteed money? One is very different than the other. He's a 23M cap hit next year, so I think it's safe to say he's getting an extension. I'm wondering what the issue is, exactly.
My understanding was he had an issue with being the 6th highest paid guard when he's widely considered to be top 2.
 

Sydla

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I don't disagree there. Martin does make Steels job easier. Or did. But is Martin the only guard Steele can play next to? I don't think so. WE would miss Martin don't get me wrong. But I stand by you can get away with a B level right guard in his place. Now finding that guy is the question. I don't think he's on the roster unless it's Tyler Smith.
Uh, for this year, in a year Jerry is spouting that we are a legit SB contender, yeah, Martin is really the only RG Steele and Biadasz can play next to if you want to actually try to win a SB. You can't plug and play some rando in there. Yeah you could move Tyler Smith there but then you just created a hole at LG. And if Tyron gets hurt, guess what? You are then totally screwed if Martin isn't there. But I am 100% confident this team can't win a SB without Martin (unless they pulled off some great trade for a legit interior OL).

This is a self inflicted wound by Jerry if this holdout goes into the season. With Philly as good as they are, you can't be throwing away early season games to prove a point. I still hold the belief that Jerry will eventually get something done but if he digs in and Martin just says, fine, I'll pay the fines, this team is clearly not nearly as good as they should be.
 

Redsfan_83

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I understand that. Just the way you phrased it irked me a little because at the beginning of his career he was trying to get paid.
It wasn't till a bit later, after marrying Giselle, that he started settling for relatively cheap contracts.

So yes, he was definitely underpaid according to the market, but he didn't spend his "entire career" trying to be so.

I guess I'm just yelling at the wind for no good reason and for that, my apologies.
I didn't mean to get into an argument over it.
lol all good, and I cannot stand TB/Gronk and all the other attention seekers. If these is a QB who should be blamed for putting themselves first it's Drew Brees. He single handedly choked that franchise by all this outrageous contract demands, for years and years. As much as I dislike Brady never really made haters over his contracts, it was over deflate gate, etc. Equally, as much I am not a big Dak fan he is now "underpaid" according to current market value. Not a whimper out of him being unhappy, which is what makes him a team leader if you will. As for others like AR, don't even get me started on him....
 

Sydla

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What exactly does Martin want? More money right now? Or just an extension with more guaranteed money? One is very different than the other. He's a 23M cap hit next year, so I think it's safe to say he's getting an extension. I'm wondering what the issue is, exactly.
No one really knows. The rumors have been he's bothered by the fact he's not the top paid guard but my guess is his real issue is he has no guaranteed money left and wants a few more years tacked on beyond 2024.

This shouldn't be that hard for Jerry, as I suspect there is a compromise here. Guarantee him more money, add a couple of years and you don't have to make him the higest paid. But Jerry let the cat out of the bag when he started whining about having to pay Parsons and Lamb. He's trying to curry favor with the fanbase over this by trying to claim they don't have the money for it but in reality, they absolutely could extend Martin and still pay Parsons and Lamb. This is just pure old stubbornnes that we see from Jerry all the time. It's why Jimmy isn't in the Ring. It's how Garrett stays long after he should have been fired. This list goes on and on.
 

Flamma

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My understanding was he had an issue with being the 6th highest paid guard when he's widely considered to be top 2.
That would indicate he wants more money in his last two years, not just an extension. That is a problem. Whether or not that becomes a problem concerning Lamb and Parsons, I don't know. But Diggs will be a big cap hit next year. Lamb the year after, and Parsons the year after that. So even without paying Martin more, it's going to be a cap problem.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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Uh, for this year, in a year Jerry is spouting that we are a legit SB contender, yeah, Martin is really the only RG Steele and Biadasz can play next to if you want to actually try to win a SB. You can't plug and play some rando in there. Yeah you could move Tyler Smith there but then you just created a hole at LG. And if Tyron gets hurt, guess what? You are then totally screwed if Martin isn't there. But I am 100% confident this team can't win a SB without Martin (unless they pulled off some great trade for a legit interior OL).

This is a self inflicted wound by Jerry if this holdout goes into the season. With Philly as good as they are, you can't be throwing away early season games to prove a point. I still hold the belief that Jerry will eventually get something done but if he digs in and Martin just says, fine, I'll pay the fines, this team is clearly not nearly as good as they should be.
I'm not sure what the end game is here for Martin. He's being fined and he won't get that money back. He's basically paying to get a new contract. IT doesn't make sense.
 

TheMarathonContinues

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That would indicate he wants more money in his last two years, not just an extension. That is a problem. Whether or not that becomes a problem concerning Lamb and Parsons, I don't know. But Diggs will be a big cap hit next year. Lamb the year after, and Parsons the year after that. So even without paying Martin more, it's going to be a cap problem.
Yeah I don't want to speak for him but that's what I've been seeing to be reported. And that's basically what Jerry said. He has to pay other people first. Martin was going to eventually get paid more. Not sure why he picked NOW to do this.
 

Flamma

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No one really knows. The rumors have been he's bothered by the fact he's not the top paid guard but my guess is his real issue is he has no guaranteed money left and wants a few more years tacked on beyond 2024.

This shouldn't be that hard for Jerry, as I suspect there is a compromise here. Guarantee him more money, add a couple of years and you don't have to make him the higest paid. But Jerry let the cat out of the bag when he started whining about having to pay Parsons and Lamb. He's trying to curry favor with the fanbase over this by trying to claim they don't have the money for it but in reality, they absolutely could extend Martin and still pay Parsons and Lamb. This is just pure old stubbornnes that we see from Jerry all the time. It's why Jimmy isn't in the Ring. It's how Garrett stays long after he should have been fired. This list goes on and on.
I agree. I think he wants more than that. Because what you describe is what typically would happen, just a year early.
 

Sydla

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That would indicate he wants more money in his last two years, not just an extension. That is a problem. Whether or not that becomes a problem concerning Lamb and Parsons, I don't know. But Diggs will be a big cap hit next year. Lamb the year after, and Parsons the year after that. So even without paying Martin more, it's going to be a cap problem.
Except Martin already carries a $23 million cap hit next year on top of some dummy years that we would have to account for even if he's not here.

So they are going to have to do something anyway because there is no way Jerry is going to carry him at a $23 million cap hit UNLESS he just plans on letting Martin walk after 2024. In reality, he has two options - cut him after this season (saving $4M pre June 1 or $14MM post June 1) or extend him. If the plan is to extend him, then why dig in now and create this drama?

Further, if they were so concerned about having to pay Parsons and Lamb down the road, then why even restructure him this year kicking more money into the future? If they had just let him play out his 2023 season, they would have way more flexibility now.

Jerry is botching this, which shouldn't surprise anyone. He's been known to do muck things up quite often.
 

Flamma

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Except Martin already carries a $23 million cap hit next year on top of some dummy years that we would have to account for even if he's not here.

So they are going to have to do something anyway because there is no way Jerry is going to carry him at a $23 million cap hit UNLESS he just plans on letting Martin walk after 2024. In reality, he has two options - cut him after this season (saving $4M pre June 1 or $14MM post June 1) or extend him. If the plan is to extend him, then why dig in now and create this drama?

Further, if they were so concerned about having to pay Parsons and Lamb down the road, then why even restructure him this year kicking more money into the future? If they had just let him play out his 2023 season, they would have way more flexibility now.

Jerry is botching this, which shouldn't surprise anyone. He's been known to do muck things up quite often.
Again, I see what you're seeing. I just think there is more to it than what you're saying. I don't think it's as simple as giving Martin an extension and more guaranteed money. I think Martin wants to be paid like a top 2 OL right now, plus an extension. I have no problem giving Martin an extension and more money, even if it's a year early. It makes little difference. But if he wants more in his final two years, that's a problem. There is no room for thank you money.
 

Sydla

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Again, I see what you're seeing. I just think there is more to it than what you're saying. I don't think it's as simple as giving Martin an extension and more guaranteed money. I think Martin wants to be paid like a top 2 OL right now, plus an extension. I have no problem giving Martin an extension and more money, even if it's a year early. It makes little difference. But if he wants more in his final two years, that's a problem. There is no room for thank you money.
Jerry is now being utterly defensive about this now. Him coming out and trying to make Martin the bad guy here because he's wanting to apparently take money from them being able to sign Parsons and Lamb is pretty telling to me. He's trying to control the narrative while Martin's camp remains silent. To me that screams the guy being unreasonable here is Jerry.

I have little doubt if they guaranteed next years base, threw a signing bonus at him and extended him at say base salaries of around $14-15 mllion for a few years, this could get done. The timing should not be lost. Martin only made this request when his guaranteed money ran out. Even if you look at Lindstrom's deal, his base salaries only average around $16MM. So the reality is this seems pretty easy to figure out if Jerry really wanted to try.
 
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