JFK Assassination...Your Honest Thoughts

[ABQCOWBOY]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/jfk8/mc.htm



8.3 seconds overall right?

1st shot, make it hit target in back...re-chamber, hasty shot in 1.7 seconds.

Re-chamber, take careful aim, hit the target with a kill shot in 6.5 seconds from approximately 60 yards.

Yeah, I think that can be done. I don't see why people think that is impossible. I am positive I could do it and get a kill shot.

I will say this though, I wouldn't have needed three shots. My first shot would have ended this.

Not according to the Warren Report. According to that report, the time span was 6 seconds or less. Now, you can say it was 8.4 but if you do that, then you have to conclude that the Warren Report was not accurate which leads you to another set of variables to consider.

 

[Dodger12]

How many people would it take to set up the motorcade route, place 2 shooters on that route, and withhold information from the WC?

There's a ton of conspiracy theories about this event, and I've dismissed most of them by looking at what they're presenting and asking questions. However, I currently believe that the CIA did the hit and controlled the aftermath. Not the entire CIA. Just a few, behind the scenes, in collusion with the two Secret Service agents responsible for setting up the motorcade route. I'm willing to be proven wrong though.

If there were two shooters Dan, then where are the rounds from the second gun? Balistic tests of the recovered bullet fragments match only one gun, the Mannlicher-Carcano found at the TSBD which belonged to Oswald.

This stuff facinated me as a younger man and I thought it was a conspiracy too but as I grew older, I just don't see it anymore when looking at the FACTS, not some theories which are based on no solid evidence whatsoever.

The reality that it's just too incomprehensible for the average person (like all of us) to believe that a lone, crazed gunman could kill our president and the leader of the free world. We don't want to believe it was that easy. But sadly, it was.......

 

[CowboyDan]

If there were two shooters Dan, then where are the rounds from the second gun? Balistic tests of the recovered bullet fragments match only one gun, the Mannlicher-Carcano found at the TSBD which belonged to Oswald.

This stuff facinated me as a younger man and I thought it was a conspiracy too but as I grew older, I just don't see it anymore when looking at the FACTS, not some theories which are based on no solid evidence whatsoever.

The reality that it's just too incomprehensible for the average person (like all of us) to believe that a lone, crazed gunman could kill our president and the leader of the free world. We don't want to believe it was that easy. But sadly, it was.......

The 3rd bullet was never recovered. That was the headshot. That's the one I think was fired from the grassy knoll. It obviously went in and out......and if it was fired from the knoll, it would've ended up in the street or in the large grass quad. There's also a rumor that .45 round was found in the street near where the 3rd shot took place. Who knows? I'd be inclined to think they'd use the same type of gun, the Carcano, especially if they were setting up Oswald.
For the record, I actually do believe that a lone, crazed gunman could kill our president. I know that one killed RFK, John Lennon & almost killed Reagan. Of course, all of those were done from point blank range. Which is a lot easier to believe than the trick that Oswald allegedly pulled off.

 

[Doomsday101]

Others have said he wasn't. Here's the thing, you don't have to be a great marksman to get lucky and hit something. I've seen people who were terrible shots make a great shot. I've seen guys who were great shots, miss. Not often though.

He was good enough to have done this. I could train you to pull it off in a day if you were any kind of a decent shot.

Bolt actions are preferred by hunters why? Because you can chamber the next round so fast. Same reason why the military used them for ages. 8.3 seconds to chamber 2 rounds and fire 3 is not that challenging.

Like all Marines, Oswald was trained and tested in shooting, scoring 212 in December 1956 (slightly above the minimum for qualification as a sharpshooter) but in May 1959 scoring only 191 (barely earning the lower designation of marksman).

I agree with you he could pull the shot off

 

[YosemiteSam]

Should have used one of these.

[youtube]IX2oZ6Kv_qo[/youtube]

Gotta love The Rifleman.

 

[Aikmaniac]

3 factors that re-enactments seem to exclude:

1. Trees
2. Wall/Window angle in relation to those trees and the curvature of the road
3. Adrenaline/Pressure of the situation. This one being the biggie. You're taking out the POTUS and you don't know how many shots or how much time you have to do it. On top of that, you miss on your second attempt....and the motorcade is getting away.........is that first shot going to be enough? Better fire one more.......make it perfect......

Exactly. When I visited a couple years ago, I wondered about those trees and if they were anywhere near that height or even if they had been replaced. Talk about compensating for the shot...wow.

Apparently, after reading a good portion of this thread, I haven't given Oswald the proper credit. Everything I have read (granted they were conspiracy publications) has said he was an average shot at best.

This leads me back to why didn't Oswald (if he was the gunman) take the shot as the motorcade was coming towards him.

Maybe the marksman of the forum can chime in. Is it more difficult to hit a target that is coming towards you when using a scope?

 

[Doomsday101]

Exactly. When I visited a couple years ago, I wondered about those trees and if they were anywhere near that height or even if they had been replaced. Talk about compensating for the shot...wow.

Apparently, after reading a good portion of this thread, I haven't given Oswald the proper credit. Everything I have read (granted they were conspiracy publications) has said he was an average shot at best.

This leads me back to why didn't Oswald (if he was the gunman) take the shot as the motorcade was coming towards him.

Maybe the marksman of the forum can chime in. Is it more difficult to hit a target that is coming towards you when using a scope?

The trees were not an issue in 63, he had a clear line of site, and he is above the target and shooting a slow moving object going in a straight line. People are making the shot harder than it was.

 

[Doomsday101]

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-3.html#number

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Those of you who insist it was Oswald and Oswald alone (which I am not necessarily arguing against)... What was with Ruby killing him? The idea that he was simply an outraged American seems very far fetched to me.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Like all Marines, Oswald was trained and tested in shooting, scoring 212 in December 1956 (slightly above the minimum for qualification as a sharpshooter) but in May 1959 scoring only 191 (barely earning the lower designation of marksman).

I agree with you he could pull the shot off

Consider, he did that with an unlimited time for each shot, a stationary target and a Semi-Auto.

 

[Doomsday101]

Those of you who insist it was Oswald and Oswald alone (which I am not necessarily arguing against)... What was with Ruby killing him? The idea that he was simply an outraged American seems very far fetched to me.

How many hit men leave their pet dog in the car. Who is to say Ruby intent was to kill Oswald that day. He was known hang around the DPD

Two days later, after driving into town and sending a money order to one of his employees, Ruby walked the short distance to the nearby police headquarters. There is some evidence his actions were on a whim as he left his favorite dog, Sheba, in the car, before shooting and fatally wounding Oswald on Sunday, November 24, 1963, at 11:21 am CST, while authorities were preparing to transfer Oswald by armored car from police headquarters to the nearby county jail. Stepping out from a crowd of reporters and photographers, Ruby fired a snub-nosed Colt Cobra .38 into Oswald's abdomen during a nationally televised live broadcast.[36]

When Ruby was arrested immediately after the shooting, he told several witnesses that he helped the city of Dallas "redeem" itself in the eyes of the public, and that Oswald's death would spare Jacqueline Kennedy the ordeal of appearing at Oswald's trial.[36] Ruby stated that he shot Oswald to avenge Kennedy's death. Later, however, he claimed he shot Oswald on the spur of the moment when the opportunity presented itself, without considering any reason for doing so

 

[Doomsday101]

Consider, he did that with an unlimited time for each shot, a stationary target and a Semi-Auto.

He had a round in the chamber, Hit. he fires the 2nd shot according to the SS man on the spot at 5 sec hit and the 3rd shot missed. That was the men who were protecting the President statement. Sorry many of these show are not giving facts they are dramatizing it to prove their own points much as the 9/11 guys do, if you go by them these are hard core facts and they are not.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

When Ruby was arrested immediately after the shooting, he told several witnesses that he helped the city of Dallas "redeem" itself in the eyes of the public, and that Oswald's death would spare Jacqueline Kennedy the ordeal of appearing at Oswald's trial.[36] Ruby stated that he shot Oswald to avenge Kennedy's death. Later, however, he claimed he shot Oswald on the spur of the moment when the opportunity presented itself, without considering any reason for doing so

Um, that's what I'm saying. That all sounds very lame to me.

And I doubt someone who would walk up and kill a man point blank is too concerned about his pet dog... Obviously. Hit man or not.

 

[Hostile]

Those of you who insist it was Oswald and Oswald alone (which I am not necessarily arguing against)... What was with Ruby killing him? The idea that he was simply an outraged American seems very far fetched to me.

Two other assassinations trouble me as to it being Oswald alone.

Bobby and Oswald.

Those are the two things that keep me thinking a conspiracy is possible. I mentioned earlier in this thread that Tucson Mafioso Bill Bonnano said as soon as he saw Ruby do what he did it was a mob hit.

I have no doubt Oswald could have been doing this for someone else. I just don't believe there was a shooter from the knoll. If there was, the missed shot was his and Oswald only fired twice and hit both times. I am convinced the kill shot was from behind.

I have hit too many head shots to believe otherwise.

 

[Doomsday101]

Um, that's what I'm saying. That all sounds very lame to me.

And I doubt someone who would walk up and kill a man point blank is too concerned about his pet dog... Obviously. Hit man or not.

What I'm saying is I'm not sure it was planned by Ruby

 

[CowboyDan]

How many hit men leave their pet dog in the car. Who is to say Ruby intent was to kill Oswald that day. He was known hang around the DPD

Two days later, after driving into town and sending a money order to one of his employees, Ruby walked the short distance to the nearby police headquarters. There is some evidence his actions were on a whim as he left his favorite dog, Sheba, in the car, before shooting and fatally wounding Oswald on Sunday, November 24, 1963, at 11:21 am CST, while authorities were preparing to transfer Oswald by armored car from police headquarters to the nearby county jail. Stepping out from a crowd of reporters and photographers, Ruby fired a snub-nosed Colt Cobra .38 into Oswald's abdomen during a nationally televised live broadcast.[36]

When Ruby was arrested immediately after the shooting, he told several witnesses that he helped the city of Dallas "redeem" itself in the eyes of the public, and that Oswald's death would spare Jacqueline Kennedy the ordeal of appearing at Oswald's trial.[36] Ruby stated that he shot Oswald to avenge Kennedy's death. Later, however, he claimed he shot Oswald on the spur of the moment when the opportunity presented itself, without considering any reason for doing so

We agree on this. I don't think Ruby had anything to do with any coverup.

 

[Anjinsan]

I have hit too many head shots to believe otherwise.

Care to expound?

 

[CowboyDan]

I have hit too many head shots to believe otherwise.

Care to expound?

I think Hos was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll, and is using this thread as a diversion.

 

[Anjinsan]

I think Hos was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll, and is using this thread as a diversion.

That explains it...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

He had a round in the chamber, Hit. he fires the 2nd shot according to the SS man on the spot at 5 sec hit and the 3rd shot missed. That was the men who were protecting the President statement. Sorry many of these show are not giving facts they are dramatizing it to prove their own points much as the 9/11 guys do, if you go by them these are hard core facts and they are not.

I think you may be miss understanding my earlier post. When Oswald qualified, he had an unlimited time in which to fire, he fired at a stationary target and he used a Semi-Auto M1 to qualify with.

As for the shots themselves, as I said earlier, when this weapon was tested by the FBI and the Army, those shots could not be reproduced. Also, the CBS demonstration that many lean on does not tell the whole story.

In the CBS test, none of the Marksmen tested were able to score two hits in the first attempt of the test and 7 of the eleven failed to hit anything at any point in the test.