JFK Assassination...Your Honest Thoughts

[CowboyDan]

I was on Akard st. crossing Pacific when I heard the shots; there was one and then a second after maybe two seconds and then a third about a second or a little more after the second. Pacific street was basically a canyon with big buildings to the left and much shorter buildings to the left so there was a fairly clear audio path from my position to Dealy Plaza and I definitely heard the original shoets followed by weaker echos off the tall buildings on the right following each shot.

Most of downtown was devoid of cars and the pedestrians were almost all lined up along the motorcade route so I was alone as I walked briskly back to my office and I wondered about those sounds and my curiosity certainly peaked when I saw those two carloads of what were probably secret service agents roaring up the wrong way on a one way street. They had probably been at the Trade Mart awaiting JFK's arrival when they got the radio call and sped to the scene.

Great accounts. I really appreciate that you've shared this with us.
Have you seen the info on the audio study done a few years later, that supposedly revealed a 4th shot? I think they said it was a 95% probability that they were correct in their study. There was a congressional hearing on it an everything. Any thoughts on that?

 

[notherbob]

My thoughts on the event:
I do not believe Oswald acted alone. I do believe there was a 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll. All you have to do is watch the Zapruder film, and ask yourself, "if Dan smacked me in the forehead, which way would my head snap....forward or backward? " To me, it's clear as day. Not sure how anyone argues it. It is also clear to me that there is no way the "Magic Bullet Theory" has any basis in reality. Consider who came up with the idea....Arlen Spector.
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Kennedy's chin was already resting on his chest after the first shot and when the next bullet hit him in the head, his head could not go any further forward and so it recoiled backward, making it look as if he had been shot from in front.
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The thing that I don't understand is how poorly Oswald planned his "getaway". He fires the shots, goes to the cafeteria, then walks to the movies, killing a cop along the way?? I just don't get it. Makes me wonder if he really was just a patsy, as he claimed.

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Actually, Oswald took a bus back home, picked up his pistol and walked to a neighborhood theater, bought a ticket and went in and that was where officer Tippett was shot a little later when he went in to look around. Since I had lived in that same neighborhood I have been to the Cliff theater many times.

 

[MyBad]

Have seen it on TV shown a marksman making these shots, within the time frame of each shot [bolt action rife] time and time again. The whole "magic bullet" idea looks like it has been layed to rest too.

Cover up? Defiantly. When has the government told the truth about any event?

 

[CowboyDan]

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Actually, Oswald took a bus back home, picked up his pistol and walked to a neighborhood theater, bought a ticket and went in and that was where officer Tippett was shot a little later when he went in to look around. Since I had lived in that same neighborhood I have been to the Cliff theater many times.

Thought Tippett was shot on the street as he rolled up on the walking Oswald? Am I confusing the movie JFK with real life events? Could be.

Please don't take this wrong, but I'm just curious how sure you are that you only heard 3 shots, and the echos of those shots, if you originally thought they were car backfires? I've heard cars backfire all the time, and I don't ever recall counting them. I could probably take a good guess as to how many I heard, if pressed for an answer. Just not sure how sure I'd be.

By the way, I saw the coolest thing on TV the other day and DVR'd it.....it's 2 hours of news footage directly after the assasination. It's from a ton of different sources, but is totally un-narrarated. It's just the actual news footage of the event. It's a walk back in time. Maybe BBGun can find it and post it?

 

[notherbob]

Great accounts. I really appreciate that you've shared this with us.
Have you seen the info on the audio study done a few years later, that supposedly revealed a 4th shot? I think they said it was a 95% probability that they were correct in their study. There was a congressional hearing on it an everything. Any thoughts on that?

I only heard three shots and their echos, if there was a fourth shot it must have been from a much less powerful gun and it must have occured at the same instant as one of the rifle shots as they were all about the same audio level.

Actually, I was still thinking about those sounds and wondering whether they were shots or a car backfiring a couple of minutes later when I saw those two cars barrelling like bats outta hell. I stepped up my pace so I could get to the office and ask if anyone had heard anything but before I could get more than two bites out of my sandwich, some ran into the lunchroom and shouted the news and I knew right then that I had heard the shots.

There was one and then two more in fairly quick succession but at least a second apart. If there were others, I did not hear them. Of course if a silencer had been used I would not have heard it but silencers for rifles were bigger and bulkier than for pistols and more difficult to conceal while walking away.

That is as best I remember it but when you are involved in a incident that has strong emotional content, the memories become deeply etched in the consciousness. I have some very vivid memories of events that occured around my first birthday up until the time I was four years old - lots of strong personal experiences during that time of upheaval for me. I clearly remember the night my father left us - I was 14 months old.

 

[CowboyDan]

If you trust Wikipedia.....

"On November 22, 1963, J.D. Tippit was working beat number 78, his normal patrol area in south Oak Cliff, a residential area of the city.[3] At 12:45 p.m., 15 minutes after the assassination, Tippit received a radio order to move to the central Oak Cliff area as part of a concentration of police around the center of the city. At 12:54 Tippit radioed that he had moved as directed. By then several messages had been broadcast describing a suspect in the Kennedy assassination[4] as a slender white male, about 30 years old, 5 feet 10 inches (1.78 m) tall, and weighing about 165 pounds (75 kg).
At approximately 1:11–1:14 p.m.,[5] Tippit was driving slowly eastward on East 10th Street in Oak Cliff when, about 100 feet (30 m) past the intersection of 10th Street and Patton Avenue, he pulled alongside Lee Harvey Oswald, who was walking in the same direction.[6] Oswald, who resembled the broadcast description,[7] walked over to the car and apparently exchanged words with Tippit through the open vent window.[8] Tippit opened the door on the left side and started to walk around the front of his car. As Tippit reached the front wheel on the driver's side, Oswald drew a .38 Smith & Wesson Model 36 revolver and fired four shots in rapid succession, hitting Tippit three times in the chest. He then walked up to Tippit's fallen body and shot him directly in the head, killing him instantly."

 

[Hostile]

I hope no one is grossed out by this comment.

I absolutely believe the kill shot came from behind the President, not from the front right. Think about it folks, if you are saying his head would jerk back from a shot from the front then it would also jerk left just as radically and it doesn't.

Now, I have been a hunter and I am a real good shot with a rifle. In fact, at Thanksgiving time I out shot my niece's husband who is in the Army right now training to be a sniper. He's very good and going to catch me very fast, but I did outdo him slightly. I have a lot more experience than he does.

I have hit animal targets in the head and seen the head recoil in the direction Kennedy's head does. In other words towards the bullet. I believe this is do to the disintegration of the bullet, especially a hollow point.

Have I seen an animals head go with the bullet? Yes, but what I am saying is the jerk backwards from a shot from behind the President is not impossible at all. I have seen it myself.

 

[CowboyDan]

I only heard three shots and their echos, if there was a fourth shot it must have been from a much less powerful gun and it must have occured at the same instant as one of the rifle shots as they were all about the same audio level.

Actually, I was still thinking about those sounds and wondering whether they were shots or a car backfiring a couple of minutes later when I saw those two cars barrelling like bats outta hell. I stepped up my pace so I could get to the office and ask if anyone had heard anything but before I could get more than two bites out of my sandwich, some ran into the lunchroom and shouted the news and I knew right then that I had heard the shots.

There was one and then two more in fairly quick succession but at least a second apart. If there were others, I did not hear them. Of course if a silencer had been used I would not have heard it but silencers for rifles were bigger and bulkier than for pistols and more difficult to conceal while walking away.

That is as best I remember it but when you are involved in a incident that has strong emotional content, the memories become deeply etched in the consciousness. I have some very vivid memories of events that occured around my first birthday up until the time I was four years old - lots of strong personal experiences during that time of upheaval for me. I clearly remember the night my father left us - I was 14 months old.

Fascinating. Thanks again for sharing your experience. I really enjoy reading your posts about it.

 

[notherbob]

If you trust Wikipedia.....

"On November 22, 1963, J.D. Tippit was working beat number 78, his normal patrol area in south Oak Cliff, a residential area of the city.[3] At 12:45 p.m., 15 minutes after the assassination, Tippit received a radio order to move to the central Oak Cliff area as part of a concentration of police around the center of the city. At 12:54 Tippit radioed that he had moved as directed. By then several messages had been broadcast describing a suspect in the Kennedy assassination[4] as a slender white male, about 30 years old, 5 feet 10 inches (1.78 m) tall, and weighing about 165 pounds (75 kg).
At approximately 1:11–1:14 p.m.,[5] Tippit was driving slowly eastward on East 10th Street in Oak Cliff when, about 100 feet (30 m) past the intersection of 10th Street and Patton Avenue, he pulled alongside Lee Harvey Oswald, who was walking in the same direction.[6] Oswald, who resembled the broadcast description,[7] walked over to the car and apparently exchanged words with Tippit through the open vent window.[8] Tippit opened the door on the left side and started to walk around the front of his car. As Tippit reached the front wheel on the driver's side, Oswald drew a .38 Smith & Wesson Model 36 revolver and fired four shots in rapid succession, hitting Tippit three times in the chest. He then walked up to Tippit's fallen body and shot him directly in the head, killing him instantly."

Thanks for that.

Then I guess Oswald went to the movie after he shot Tippett. I was really surprised how fast they had caught him.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

When I was younger I thought there was another gunman and the whole magic bullet thing was interesting.

As I have grown older I don't know if I buy into all of those things like I used to.

However I AM convinced that there was some type of cover up. I think in doing the cover up they caused some of these conspiracies, whether unintentionally or intentionally to divert attention.

As Zrin says, we might finally know the truth after all parties involved have passed on.

 

[DallasEast]

He was assassinated two years before I was born, but I have always been fascinated with President Kennedy's life and how it tragically ended. I will always believe Oswalt did not act alone until someone can visually and definitely confirm that marksmen could have made those same shots within those unique set of parameters that day.

There have been two or so documentaries that I've watched which tried to duplicate the feat with one gunman. I haven't witnessed a successful attempt yet and do not believe I ever will.

I thought everyone knew by now that it was The Comedian

Great Watchmen reference!

 

[Vtwin]

I hope no one is grossed out by this comment.

I absolutely believe the kill shot came from behind the President, not from the front right. Think about it folks, if you are saying his head would jerk back from a shot from the front then it would also jerk left just as radically and it doesn't.

Now, I have been a hunter and I am a real good shot with a rifle. In fact, at Thanksgiving time I out shot my niece's husband who is in the Army right now training to be a sniper. He's very good and going to catch me very fast, but I did outdo him slightly. I have a lot more experience than he does.

I have hit animal targets in the head and seen the head recoil in the direction Kennedy's head does. In other words towards the bullet. I believe this is do to the disintegration of the bullet, especially a hollow point.

Have I seen an animals head go with the bullet? Yes, but what I am saying is the jerk backwards from a shot from behind the President is not impossible at all. I have seen it myself.

I agree with this to a certain extent. It appears that his head does move forward then snaps back. The bullet didn't leave much if its energy in his head as it passed through. Enough to move it slightly forward than other forces caused it to snap backwards. It appears in the video that most of the blood etc comes out towards the front which which indicates the exit wound.

Have you seen the info on the audio study done a few years later, that supposedly revealed a 4th shot? I think they said it was a 95% probability that they were correct in their study.

I read somewhere that a study done in the 90's by the NAS ruled out the fourth shot from the recording taken from the police motorcycle.

 

[Hostile]

One of the things that compelled me to start this thread and ask about conspiracies, etc. was sparked by Jackie's comments in wearing the bloody clothes as LBJ was sworn in. Her aide picked out an outfit and she is reported to have said...

"No, let them see what they have done."

Who?

LBJ? Others on Air Force One?

Did she believe there was a conspiracy that early after his death?

Supposedly her left leg was actually completely covered in his blood, and this dignified woman stood there with that blood visible to all.

We may never again know a woman the likes of Jackie.

 

[braw]

The only thing that matters when it comes to JFK's death is not how but why. All that misinformation about mafia, missile crisis, and lone gunman does not matter just the fact that the act was done period and done in public for all to see what can happen. Cover up or no cover up it does not matter the act itself was what mattered.

IMO Executive Order 1110 done by JFK got him killed. JFK along with Abe Lincoln did what the constitution gives them the power to do and died cuz of it. The power to coin money.

 

[Vtwin]

It is strange that I woke up thinking about this today. Wondering when the day would come when the truth would come out. Don't know where that came from. Haven't thought or talked about it for a long time.

Then there is a thread on the football site. Go figure.....

 

[joseephuss]

Conspiracy theories grew because the government withheld information. Initially, there were parts of the investigation that were not available to the public and would not be so until 2039. It wasn't necessarily intentional. They were just following some silly procedural thing. With the Freedom of Information Act, I believe the vast majority of the records can be seen by the public; however, all those years of "secrecy" fed the fires of conspiracy. The thought being that if they are holding back, then they are holding back for a reason.

My theory is there were two gunmen. Two independent gunmen with no knowledge of the other. No other forces involved running things. Just two guys that both decided to assassinate the president on that same fateful day in Dallas. One being Oswald and one who no one knows. One who lived for many years after the fact and may even still be alive with the knowledge of what he did.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

What is not known is that 3 FBI snipers tried to duplicate his shots some years later and none did as well as he did. If he acted alone he was one of the luckiest SOB's around.

I don't know if you're referring to something different, but even this is on the Wiki page:

Former U.S. Marine sniper Craig Roberts and Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, who was the senior instructor for the U.S. Marine Corps Sniper Instructor School at Marine Corps Base Quantico in Quantico, Virginia, both said it could not be done as described by the FBI investigators. "Let me tell you what we did at Quantico," Hathcock said. "We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don’t know how many times we tried it, but we couldn’t duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did. Now if I can’t do it, how in the world could a guy who was a non-qual on the rifle range and later only qualified 'marksman' do it?"[43]

Once everyone who could be imprisoned or embarrassed by this case is dead, someone will miraculously find some paperwork (whether a "diary" or a government document) that will tell about the cover up.

I think many will be surprised on why he was assassinated.

Are you suggesting you know why, or what happened? If so, tell.

It's funny that BP said the older he gets, the less he thinks there's any conspiracy. I'm just the opposite. At one time, I'd have immediately dismissed most of this as the work of kooks. Now I'm more willing to believe that something was going on.

Hos, why do you say you are convinced there were only three shots?

 

[joseephuss]

One of the things that compelled me to start this thread and ask about conspiracies, etc. was sparked by Jackie's comments in wearing the bloody clothes as LBJ was sworn in. Her aide picked out an outfit and she is reported to have said...

"No, let them see what they have done."

Who?

LBJ? Others on Air Force One?

Did she believe there was a conspiracy that early after his death?

Supposedly her left leg was actually completely covered in his blood, and this dignified woman stood there with that blood visible to all.

We may never again know a woman the likes of Jackie.

The who could just be a generality of JFK's opponents. They drove a lone, crazy man to do this. Not directly, but indirectly.

We saw a similar line of thinking recently with the shootings in Arizona. I don't agree with that sentiment, but I know those kinds of thoughts exist. To me a crazy person is going to do crazy things. They will do so whether they think someone of power and influence on television is directing them to do it or some squirrel in the park is directing them to do it.

 

[Hostile]

The only thing that matters when it comes to JFK's death is not how but why. All that misinformation about mafia, missile crisis, and lone gunman does not matter just the fact that the act was done period and done in public for all to see what can happen. Cover up or no cover up it does not matter the act itself was what mattered.

IMO Executive Order 1110 done by JFK got him killed. JFK along with Abe Lincoln did what the constitution gives them the power to do and died cuz of it. The power to coin money.

I've heard the same thing about the tax on oil that the Kennedy Administration imposed. The so called Kennedy Act of 1962. The Texas oil men were speculated to lose $300 million a year over that act.

I'd say that is enough to want someone dead.

I agree with BP, the reason there are so many conspiracies about this is because so many things were neglected or unanswered.

 

[Hostile]

It is strange that I woke up thinking about this today. Wondering when the day would come when the truth would come out. Don't know where that came from. Haven't thought or talked about it for a long time.

Then there is a thread on the football site. Go figure.....

So did I. I know what prompted my thoughts to be turned here though.