JFK Assassination...Your Honest Thoughts

WarC

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Hostile;3884431 said:
I have hit animal targets in the head and seen the head recoil in the direction Kennedy's head does. In other words towards the bullet. I believe this is do to the disintegration of the bullet, especially a hollow point.

Have I seen an animals head go with the bullet? Yes, but what I am saying is the jerk backwards from a shot from behind the President is not impossible at all. I have seen it myself.

I've also seen this done with melons. The disintegration of the bullet, its path once it enters its target, and the force of the exit all work to propel the target -in the direction- of the shot. Not like when the bullet impacts a larger mass like a body, or when the bullet passes cleanly through mass.

With a head shot when there is a clear entry and a rough exit, the forces and momentum will carry the target in the direction of the shot.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Anjinsan;3884566 said:
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That has been proven many times to be done very easily.

I don't doubt you at all... In fact I said earlier that my dad agreed it wouldn't be hard. :)

But how does this jibe with the marine reenactment I mentioned earlier, or what burmafd said?
 

Hostile

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WarC;3884608 said:
I've also seen this done with melons. The disintegration of the bullet, its path once it enters its target, and the force of the exit all work to propel the target -in the direction- of the shot. Not like when the bullet impacts a larger mass like a body, or when the bullet passes cleanly through mass.

With a head shot when there is a clear entry and a rough exit, the forces and momentum will carry the target in the direction of the shot.
Thanks for the insight.

Here's one of the endearing mysteries of the assassination for me. What happened to Jackie's hat? It has never been found to my knowledge. Some nurse was reported to have had it at the hospital but she doesn't remember what she did with it. On Air Force 1 she wasn't wearing it and it was never seen again.

Her blood stained outfit is in the National Archives, but not for public view as far as I know. I think that is sad. Maybe people think it is too gory an image. I think it is too important an object to be hidden.
 

casmith07

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If Deepthroat was concealed all the way until his death, then this certainly can be.

Considering I think MLK's shooting was also a cover-up, I believe JFK's was too.
 

zrinkill

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casmith07;3884635 said:
If Deepthroat was concealed all the way until his death, then this certainly can be.

Considering I think MLK's shooting was also a cover-up, I believe JFK's was too.

Living Color said it best.

"When a leader speaks, that leader dies"
 

notherbob

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CowboyDan;3884430 said:
If you trust Wikipedia.....

"On November 22, 1963, J.D. Tippit was working beat number 78, his normal patrol area in south Oak Cliff, a residential area of the city.[3] At 12:45 p.m., 15 minutes after the assassination, Tippit received a radio order to move to the central Oak Cliff area as part of a concentration of police around the center of the city. At 12:54 Tippit radioed that he had moved as directed. By then several messages had been broadcast describing a suspect in the Kennedy assassination[4] as a slender white male, about 30 years old, 5 feet 10 inches (1.78 m) tall, and weighing about 165 pounds (75 kg).
At approximately 1:11–1:14 p.m.,[5] Tippit was driving slowly eastward on East 10th Street in Oak Cliff when, about 100 feet (30 m) past the intersection of 10th Street and Patton Avenue, he pulled alongside Lee Harvey Oswald, who was walking in the same direction.[6] Oswald, who resembled the broadcast description,[7] walked over to the car and apparently exchanged words with Tippit through the open vent window.[8] Tippit opened the door on the left side and started to walk around the front of his car. As Tippit reached the front wheel on the driver's side, Oswald drew a .38 Smith & Wesson Model 36 revolver and fired four shots in rapid succession, hitting Tippit three times in the chest. He then walked up to Tippit's fallen body and shot him directly in the head, killing him instantly."

Wow!

What are the chances that a cop could stop somebody in a residential area a few miles away matching that vague general description so soon after the event and actually be right?
 

casmith07

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notherbob;3884652 said:
Wow!

What are the chances that a cop could stop somebody in a residential area matching that vague general description so soon after the event and actually be right?

My guess? Slim to absolute none.

Like zrinkill said - we'll find out the truth when everyone is gone, or when the last one is about to pass, just like Deepthroat.
 

Aikmaniac

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Hostile;3884620 said:
Thanks for the insight.

Here's one of the endearing mysteries of the assassination for me. What happened to Jackie's hat? It has never been found to my knowledge. Some nurse was reported to have had it at the hospital but she doesn't remember what she did with it. On Air Force 1 she wasn't wearing it and it was never seen again.

Her blood stained outfit is in the National Archives, but not for public view as far as I know. I think that is sad. Maybe people think it is too gory an image. I think it is too important an object to be hidden.

Speaking of Jackie...

Some wonder why Jackie hopped up on the trunk of the vehicle after the shooting. Some think she was trying to help up the secret service agent, however, and this may be graphic as well, she was grabbing a fragment of JFK's head...thinking that it may be needed at the hospital.
 

SkinsandTerps

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I think people forget that the family was involved with the mob during prohibition.

I do not believe for a second that Oswald was alone in his act, Ruby was connected also and they may partially explain his situation.
 

ZeroClub

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Anjinsan;3884474 said:
I've visited the library and the window from which he shot and as a Marine, I can tell you that they were very easy shots. Even a marksman (which is the lowest rifle rating) could make those shots.

Absolutely.

I've been there too and you are absolutely correct. They were easy shots ... disgustingly easy. I've made similar shots while deer hunting and I have no training or special expertise.

There's been a great deal of misinformation about the difficulty of these shots over the years. Anyone who is interested in this moment in history should visit the Sixth Floor Museum and see for yourself.
 

CowboyDan

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ZeroClub;3884714 said:
Absolutely.

I've been there too and you are absolutely correct. They were easy shots ... disgustingly easy. I've made similar shots while deer hunting and I have no training or special expertise.

There's been a great deal of misinformation about the difficulty of these shots over the years. Anyone who is interested in this moment in history should visit the Sixth Floor Museum and see for yourself.

Could you do them in 8.3 seconds, and hit 2 out of 3 perfectly, with a bolt-action?
 

ZeroClub

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CowboyDan;3884726 said:
Could you do them in 8.3 seconds, and hit 2 out of 3 perfectly, with a bolt-action?

The first shot wasn't perfect. It missed the head and hit the neck instead. Another shot missed entirely. Honestly, the shooting wasn't special. You should go visit the museum and see for yourself. If you are like most people, you'll be shocked at how near those shots actually were.
 

CowboyDan

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ZeroClub;3884745 said:
The first shot wasn't perfect. It missed the head and hit the neck instead. Another shot missed entirely. Honestly, the shooting wasn't special. You should go visit the museum and see for yourself. If you are like most people, you'll be shocked at how near those shots actually were.

I live here and every friend and relative that comes to visit goes there, so I've been there, oh, I don't know, 12 times in the last 2 years? Excuse my using of the word perfectly, what I should have said was hitting the target 2 out of 3 times in 8.3 seconds with that particular bolt action rifle, in 1 try, not to mention the whole adrenaline thing that occurs in a situation such as that. I'm impressed if you think you can do it. However, you and I both know that thinking you can, and actually doing something, are two completely different things.
 

Chocolate Lab

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I'm not a rifle guy at all, but a bolt action can worked be pretty quickly if you know what you're doing, can't it?

I mean, I couldn't possibly get those shots off, but I thought a trained person could.
 

CowboyDan

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However, I've always been much more concerned with the Magic Bullet Theory & the direction his head moves when hit by the 3rd shot. I saw a clip from the Discovery Channel's Unsolved History on the Magic Bullet Theory and they say that Kennedy's seat was higher and wider in the car than Gov. Connolly. I need to find the build specs on that Lincoln, never heard of offset seats.

Here's both for your viewing pleasure:

[youtube]ikIRB3lvFvw[/youtube]

[youtube]tjcLtPsOML8[/youtube]
 

Hostile

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CowboyDan;3884726 said:
Could you do them in 8.3 seconds, and hit 2 out of 3 perfectly, with a bolt-action?
Yes, I believe I could.

I do think it would have been easier with open sights, but I have never understood why this is considered all that hard.
 

arglebargle

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Great thread, some fine comments.

There absolutely was a coverup. The day after the assassination, the Asst. Attorney General was on record as saying 'This has to be found to be the work of a lone, crazed gunman'. That was going to be the party line, and the least troublesome to deal with.

Now, what actually happened that they were covering up? That's a bit more tricky.

I'll tell you a story. In the early 80's, a friend of mine ran across the information that there was a book about the Kennedy Assassination that was banned in the US. It couldn't be sold, sent in, and if carried into the USA, it could be seized at border. This got him real interested. Through University libray loan programs, he found that there were 37 listed copies of this book at various major libraries. He tried to get them via loan and found that 35 of the universities had the book on a 'restricted list', that would not even let you see them, if you were just on site. He found two available via the university loan program. One was checked out (and had been for awhile). The only available copy, interestingly, had been misfiled under Drama. He managed to get this copy. On the end papers was the note that the book had been donated to the university by Margaret Chase Smith, noted Republican Senator from Maine. It had '17 of 50' written in by hand, along with an ominous, signed quote from Senator Smith. (I wrote it down, but it has been lost in the intervening time, damnit).

This book was titled 'Farewell America' and it turns out to have been the French Intelligence Services report on the Kennedy Assassination. It details a conspiracy by a bunch of rich businessmen, ex-CIA and ex-FBI members, etc, to take out Kennedy. It names some names. Hmnn.

http://www.jfk-online.com/farewellturner.html

Oswald was almost assuredly a patsy, a designated fall guy. He was probably supposed to be conveniantly taken out shortly after the hit. Ruby was most likely a fallback plan. How much he was involved in everything is guesswork, though I think actually very little. Oswald, imo, was a low level CIA asset. Consider: Here's a military guy, who jumps the iron curtain and defects to the Soviets in the middle of the cold war. He marries a general's daughter. He decides after a few years to come back to the states. His plane fare back is paid by the US Consulate, but he is not arrested for desertion, or even debriefed. He then operates a series of minor pro communist, cuban, etc fronts. Hmnn.

I suspect he was brought into the operation by a former CIA handler, one who was flushed out when Kennedy cleaned house in 1960-61. But Oswald wouldn't have known that.

Speaking of which, the investigator in charge of the Warren Commission was none other than Alan Dulles, the former head of the CIA who was so rancourously fired by Kennedy. Dulles, in a piece by 60 Minutes about the murder of a newsman in Greece, where he was sent in as the American member of the investigation, was quoted there as saying 'Who do we pin this on?'

Evidence disappearing: There's a considerable amound of evidence in this case that disappeared from custody, including such things as a bullet encased in concrete that was thrown out by the FBI, because 'They needed the space.' The brain disappeared. As one forensics conspiracy theorist stated, 'The brain vanished. Why? Because if I had the brain, I could tell you exactly where the bullets came from.'

Who did it? Who killed Kennedy? Hmnn. But it is absolutley obvious that the fix was in from the very beginning to point to the most palatable answer, a lone, crazed gunman. This alone should be reason to be suspicious that that is not the case.
 

arglebargle

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Hostile;3884799 said:
Yes, I believe I could.

I do think it would have been easier with open sights, but I have never understood why this is considered all that hard.

Using a terrible rifle, by a shooter who was not very good?

A friend of my father's once bought 20 of these Carcannos for $3 a piece, and handed them out as door prizes at parties. He said they were a really bad design, and not that accurate. It's not like Oswald was firing a good, tuned 30'06 or hunting rifle, or that he had passed the Marine sniper school.
 

Hostile

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arglebargle;3884815 said:
Using a terrible rifle, by a shooter who was not very good?

A friend of my father's once bought 20 of these Carcannos for $3 a piece, and handed them out as door prizes at parties. He said they were a really bad design, and not that accurate. It's not like Oswald was firing a good, tuned 30'06 or hunting rifle, or that he had passed the Marine sniper school.
Okay, the first round was already chambered. That is obvious to anyone. He did not chamber it right before he shot. Work the action, takes maybe 2 seconds. Fire erratically, work the action you're now at 4 to 5 seconds, 3.3 seconds to aim carefully and get a kill shot?

Yeah, I am fairly confident I could do that and I'm surprised by the number of people who think it can't be done.

As has been pointed out, this was not a 500 yard shot here.

I do believe it would have been easier with open sights, but not impossible with them and a bolt action.

Regarding the gun, it doesn't matter how accurate the gun is, it matters where it is pointed and clearly 2 of the 3 shots it was pointed in the right direction.

Oswald is clearly a shooter and fired 3 times. We know that. We know where all 3 bullets hit, yet we still think he missed twice and the 2nd miss disappeared?

That's always been hard for me to swallow. Especially since the film lets you hear 3 shots and there was no evidence of a 2nd miss anywhere.
 
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