Jim Zorn - New Commander HC *Merged*

[Bob Sacamano]

this situation is just too funny

Gibbs sure stuck it to Danny, where the hottest coaching candidate was a 1-year Defensive coordinator

the situation is funniest because Zorn never interviewed for the HC spot, they didn't get spags, and just decided to name him HC, I've never seen an NFL team get a default HC before

 

[AbeBeta]

You'd have a point, except:

* Presumably Zorn was learning a little something during the first 7.5 years, when he was starting.
* Zorn held a clipboard for the last 3.5 years of his career
* Zorn held a clipboard as a coach for 6 years before Garrett even entered the league
* Garrett's career was 8 years, not 11


So, all told, Zorn started for 7.5 years, and held a clipboard as a backup or assistant coach for 9.5 years before Garrett even entered the league. He had a big head start on Garrett.

If he wasn't ready to "progress through the ranks" by then, I see that as a problem.

The fact is, the guy is a career position coach who is only 6 years younger than Tom Coughlin.

Garrett played from 1993 to 2004 - He was with the Giants until 2003 and TB and Miami in 2004 -- he has no stats from those seasons b/c he didn't play at all. That's an 11 year playing career there.

Zorn may have "held a clipboard" but he was in no way the sort of backup that Garrett was -- a guy who wasn't going to play unless there was an emergency. Garrett was very much in the role of a player-coach for much of his career whereas Zorn was a PLAYER during his career.

The idea that he never was a coordinator so he must suck is not a particularly strong argument -- Andy Reid was never a coordinator. He served as a QB coach for 7 years - does that mean he sucked?

 

[Mansta54]

Garrett played from 1993 to 2004 - He was with the Giants until 2003 and TB and Miami in 2004 -- he has no stats from those seasons b/c he didn't play at all. That's an 11 year playing career there.

Zorn may have "held a clipboard" but he was in no way the sort of backup that Garrett was -- a guy who wasn't going to play unless there was an emergency. Garrett was very much in the role of a player-coach for much of his career whereas Zorn was a PLAYER during his career.

The idea that he never was a coordinator so he must suck is not a particularly strong argument -- Andy Reid was never a coordinator. He served as a QB coach for 7 years - does that mean he sucked?

All the horn tootin you're doing for Zorn, you should be telling the Seattle frtofc. He's a ICON in Seattle, been a QB coach for close to 10yrs on their staff. They know him well but yet they NEVER promoted him to OC or asst. HC. Infact, they skipped over him to give the HC gig next year to Mora Jr. That right there speaks volumes of what Seattle thinks of Zorn. VOLUMES!!!

 

[BigDFan5]

All the horn tootin you're doing for Zorn, you should be telling the Seattle frtofc. He's a ICON in Seattle, been a QB coach for close to 10yrs on their staff. They know him well but yet they NEVER promoted him to OC or asst. HC. Infact, they skipped over him to give the HC gig next year to Mora Jr. That right there speaks volumes of what Seattle thinks of Zorn. VOLUMES!!!

He also wanted to stay in Seattle and asked for a contract extension to which seattle declined

 

[Mansta54]

He also wanted to stay in Seattle and asked for a contract extension to which seattle declined

After listening to his PC, I can see why....

 

[dadymat]

did i read correctly hes the 27th head coach in the skins history?


thats alot of coaches

 

[kmd24]

Zorn may have "held a clipboard" but he was in no way the sort of backup that Garrett was -- a guy who wasn't going to play unless there was an emergency. Garrett was very much in the role of a player-coach for much of his career whereas Zorn was a PLAYER during his career.

Zorn began his career in an era when helmets weren't wired with radio, and quarterbacks sometimes called their own plays. Yet you seem to want to completely discount that experience.

Yours is a silly argument - even if you totally discount Zorn's playing career, the guy still had a 6-year headstart on Garrett.

The idea that he never was a coordinator so he must suck is not a particularly strong argument -- Andy Reid was never a coordinator. He served as a QB coach for 7 years - does that mean he sucked?

Reid was assistant head coach (as well as QB coach) for his last two years in Green Bay.

Even so, your example is selection bias, plain and simple. Do you think that never being an NFL coordinator is an advantage for a head coach?

Time will tell whether Zorn is a good hire. Nevertheless, his lack of progression should be cause for concern.

 

[Mansta54]

his lack of progression should be cause for concern.

 

[HighTechDave]

why all this HATE for Zorn, because he is mediocre, is beyond me.


ray: (dear God, I'm not one to wish I'll Will against any Man, but I do Pray that the Commanders will continue to suck with that Napoleon Owner of theirs. I know that the Cowboys are God's team and we are humbled by that, but can you please just drop a few Meteors, failed seasons, more ugly Cheerleaders on the Commanders for ole times sake? Thanks God!!)

ray:

 

[DallasFanSince86]

why all this HATE for Zorn, because he is mediocre, is beyond me.


ray: (dear God, I'm not one to wish I'll Will against any Man, but I do Pray that the Commanders will continue to suck with that Napoleon Owner of theirs. I know that the Cowboys are God's team and we are humbled by that, but can you please just drop a few Meteors, failed seasons, more ugly Cheerleaders on the Commanders for ole times sake? Thanks God!!)

ray:

 

[Big Dakota]

All the horn tootin you're doing for Zorn, you should be telling the Seattle frtofc. He's a ICON in Seattle, been a QB coach for close to 10yrs on their staff. They know him well but yet they NEVER promoted him to OC or asst. HC. Infact, they skipped over him to give the HC gig next year to Mora Jr. That right there speaks volumes of what Seattle thinks of Zorn. VOLUMES!!!

That would disturb the heck out of me. It's like they (Holmgren) didn't think he was anything more than a QB coach.

 

[Skinsmaniac]

If I'm a skins fan, I'd much prefer that Zorn had a couple years as OC under his belt. I watched the PC as well and came away unimpressed.

He was definitely nervous. That is the kind of thing that will disappear with time. The real problem would be if he can't command the respect of the team

I'm going to take the Ivy League school grad, hands down. much smarter

For offensive coordinator, I agree with you because intelligence is necessary for scheming and calling plays. However, it seems to me that pure intelligence is less necessary (though obviously a bonus) for a head coach whose main job is to manage and lead.

That would disturb the heck out of me. It's like they (Holmgren) didn't think he was anything more than a QB coach.

Haskell has been the OC in Seattle since 2000. Essentially you are criticizing Zorn because Holmgren didn't fire Haskell and replace him with Zorn. I think a more fair criticism is that other teams didn't want him for their open offensive coordinator positions.

 

[Big Dakota]

He was definitely nervous. That is the kind of thing that will disappear with time. The real problem would be if he can't command the respect of the team








For offensive coordinator, I agree with you because intelligence is necessary for scheming and calling plays. However, it seems to me that pure intelligence is less necessary (though obviously a bonus) for a head coach whose main job is to manage and lead.


Haskell has been the OC in Seattle since 2000. Essentially you are criticizing Zorn because Holmgren didn't fire Haskell and replace him with Zorn. I think a more fair criticism is that other teams didn't want him for their open offensive coordinator positions.[/quote]


Actually, i was referring to the fact Seattle,and not just Holmgren, but CEO Tod Leiweke and Team President Tim Ruskell, totally passed him over by bringing in Mora. The guy played there 8 years and coached there 9, yet they bring in Mora. You can tell me your happy, but if i were you I'd be really concerned about danny's decision making ability. It would be like if Doug Williams were your QB coach for the last 9 years and then you bring in Jason Garrett and pass over Williams.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I was pretty shocked to see this yesturday. It made me laugh though. How friggen pathetic does Dan Snyder have to have turned the Skins organization into that the only person he could get to take the job was freaking Jim Zorn.

Wow. From Fassel, Mooch, and Spags one week to having to go with Zorn.

 

[Skinsmaniac]

Actually, i was referring to the fact Seattle,and not just Holmgren, but CEO Tod Leiweke and Team President Tim Ruskell, totally passed him over by bringing in Mora. The guy played there 8 years and coached there 9, yet they bring in Mora. You can tell me your happy, but if i were you I'd be really concerned about danny's decision making ability. It would be like if Doug Williams were your QB coach for the last 9 years and then you bring in Jason Garrett and pass over Williams.

Not really because Mora is a defensive guy.

Edit: and furthermore, they didn't name Mora the next head coach until after Zorn had left.

 

[Big Dakota]

Not really because Mora is a defensive guy.

Edit: and furthermore, they didn't name Mora the next head coach until after Zorn had left.

Why didn't they offer the job to Zorn and keep him? They certainly could have, and you can't tell me Zorn wouldn't have LOVED to be the head man in Seattle.

 

[Skinsmaniac]

Why didn't they offer the job to Zorn and keep him? They certainly could have, and you can't tell me Zorn wouldn't have LOVED to be the head man in Seattle.

That's true, and I'm not disputing that Seattle wanted Mora to be their next head coach and not Zorn. But that is not a reason per se why Mora will be a better coach. They could want a defensive guy, or someone with prior head coaching experience, or someone with experience as a coordinator. I think it's fair to question whether those are good reasons and whether they indicate that Zorn won't do a good job in DC.

 

[Big Dakota]

That's true, and I'm not disputing that Seattle wanted Mora to be their next head coach and not Zorn. But that is not a reason per se why Mora will be a better coach. They could want a defensive guy, or someone with prior head coaching experience, or someone with experience as a coordinator. I think it's fair to question whether those are good reasons and whether they indicate that Zorn won't do a good job in DC.

I don't know how Zorn will do in DC, but if i worked for an company for 9 years, never got promoted passed the possition i had when i first started, then when a promotion came up and they brought in someone from an outside company, i'd begin to wonder my ability.

 

[Skinsmaniac]

I don't know how Zorn will do in DC, but if i worked for an company for 9 years, never got promoted passed the possition i had when i first started, then when a promotion came up and they brought in someone from an outside company, i'd begin to wonder my ability.

But they didn't bring in someone from outside for that particular position. There are essentially three tiers of coaching HC, coordinator, and lower assistants. Mora was hired for the DC position a year ago, a position that Zorn would not have been qualified for. The offensive coordinator position was never open during his seven years there. Then, this year they decide that they need to choose who will be the next head coach. They decided to promote one of their coordinators over one of their assistant coaches. This is the traditional wisdom, and perhaps the better wisdom. But their reluctance to promote Zorn may reflect their belief that a coordinator should get the job, not whether Zorn is intrinsically suited to be a head coach.

 

[Big Dakota]

But they didn't bring in someone from outside for that particular position. There are essentially three tiers of coaching HC, coordinator, and lower assistants. Mora was hired for the DC position a year ago, a position that Zorn would not have been qualified for. The offensive coordinator position was never open during his seven years there. Then, this year they decide that they need to choose who will be the next head coach. They decided to promote one of their coordinators over one of their assistant coaches. This is the traditional wisdom, and perhaps the better wisdom. But their reluctance to promote Zorn may reflect their belief that a coordinator should get the job, not whether Zorn is intrinsically suited to be a head coach.

I guess for me the bottom line is this. No one knows Zorn better than the Seahawks organization and they let him go. You see Dallas doing that with Garrett? NY with Spagnolo? How bout the Pats with McDaniels? You got a talented guy in the wings, you keep him. The Skins had Greg Williams but they let him walk as well, even after paying him big bucks to come in as the heir apparent. Spin it how you want, but outside Maroon, Black and Yellow country people are shaking their collective heads.