Just say "NO" to converting a DE to OLB...

[jterrell]

Something else to consider is 2007.

I think there's a good chance that this will be Parcells' last year.

The new coach may want to use a 4-3, so if Dallas is seriously considering choosing a LB with its first pick this year, it needs to be someone who can play OLB in either scheme. That kinda looks like Carpenter to me.

I think Ware can be a very good RDE in a 4-3. If I'm not mistaken, he lined up there a few times last year in a 3-point stance. He's already heavier than Jason Taylor.

Very interesting point.

I'd think Dallas has committed so much to the 3-4 by means of its young draftees that it might be forced to use a 3-4 regardless of coach. The defense has been totally remade in its front 7. Not sure Spears, Bradie James, Ferguson, Ware, Canty, and Ratliff are as good if you switch to the 4-3.
We have jettisoned or lost Dat, Coakley, Glover and all 3 were standout 4-3 guys.

But I do think it will be interesting to watch this draft for evidence of bet hedging. Last year was all clearly 3-4 guys all the time.

Teams after BP quits usually retains the 3-4 for a bit at least with a BP disciple as coach. I expect the top coach ont he food chain here would be Zimmer and he is of course a man cover 4-3 guy at heart with lots of zone cover 2 exposure now and at least 2 years of 3-4.

 

[MiStar]

Bro, come on, that is flimsy at best and completely inaccurate in spots.

Ware was far better than Singleton, Burnett or Fujita and thats why its very probable NONE of those 3 start this year for us.

The position they play is a different one and they were often not asked to take on tight ends. Ware was asked to do so regularly.

As for getting off blocks please show us video evidence of this great exclamation you are making. Otherwise its pointless to mention. Making authoritative arguments based on your limited viewing of players with minimal exposure borders on reaching.

Dallas seldom gave Ware any rest at all. They didn't feel they had another player on the roster who could fill his role.

Thats exactly why drafting a second guy with some pass rushing skills make sense.

Fujita, ironically, is a good athlete but is also extremely stiff and angular. Thats not my opinion merely mind you, but the scouts inc negatives.

Ware was actually quite good last year against the run. Yes, he got gashed repeatedly against KC and gave up a huge play against Denver but those are top 5 OLs. He was far from the only person they abused.

Ware proved he had the ability to do everything. He can cover, play the run and rush the passer. He needs to get better at all 3 but the number of folks who can do all 3 is very small and he is amongst the elite who can.

Rewatch the Giants game(Week 6), if you've got the film. The giants ran at Ware a hanful of times, and on only one occasion did he manage to defeat his blocker. To his credit, he did a very good job in chasing down plays from the backside.

By the way, your assertion that Ware had to take on Tightends more than Ware is completely baseless. Fujita and Singleton are matched up over Shockey for the majority of the game.

 

[Clove]

That's nice of you to give Ware a couple more years.

But let me remind you that a single mistake in coverage can devastate your season.

Rewind-- Oakland game. Moss comes out in the slot and Ware is assigned the responsibility to jam and redirect him at the line of scrimmage.

OOOOPPPPSSSSS!!!!

Oh so sorry! I forgot to jam!

The result?

Need I remind you.

That happened often last year.

I say let's draft a real OLB that knows what to do when assigned with coverage responsibilities.

I hope you don't think that Carpenter is going to jam Moss, because Carpenter will be eating dust.

 

[Clove]

I'm not comparing him to perfection. Hell I can compare him to Scott Fujita, Al Singleton, or Kevin Burnett, who lost containment plenty of times himself. All of these guys were much faster at getting off their blocks than Ware. It doesn't stop there either, Ware also got turned inside a lot more than Fujita, Singleton, and Burnett.

Can I know for certain that Bobby Carpenter will be a better pro than Lawson? No, but there are plenty of reasons why I believe that he will be a better run defender. Carpenter played for the number one run defense in the nation last year, primarily playing SLB and DE. After he went down, all his replacement at SLB could manage to do was pick up one assisted tackle.

While Carpenter is somewhat inconsistant in ability to shed blocks quickly, the only play that I can remember him being blown up on is the play where he got injured against Michigan. In addition being very solid at the point of attack, he has incredible closing burst. Within a ten yard window, I doubt that Manny Lawson has better closing speed than Bobby Carpenter.

Manny Lawson, while being a very strong individual was consistantly being blown off the ball by offensive lineman. Often times, he would be four of five yards downfield before he could disengage from his blocker. Of course, this didn't occur on every snap, but I can't remember Bobby Carpenter ever being driven off the ball in such a fashion.

I know that everyone here craves absolute proof, but short of actually giving everyone game film, this is the best I can do.

You need to tell me why Burnett can't do what Carpenter does? You need to tell me why Greenway can't do what Carpenter does? You need to tell me why Carpenter had inferior numbers to Hawk and they both played OLB? You need to tell me why Thomas Howard (who had much better numbers than Carpenter, twice as fast and just as big except for a few pounds he can add) is better?

What makes Carpenter the almighty great around here? I'm starting to think that the media has really gotten to some people around here. I'm starting to root for Greenway and HOward now.

The love affair with one player is borderline psychotic. Atleast I'm willing to say, if we don't draft Lawson, then I'm happy with this guy or that guy or this other guy. But it's going to be mighty funny if we come away with a big Fujita in this draft, and some other team is left with the next Willie McGinest.

 

[Clove]

Rewatch the Giants game(Week 6), if you've got the film. The giants ran at Ware a hanful of times, and on only one occasion did he manage to defeat his blocker. To his credit, he did a very good job in chasing down plays from the backside.

By the way, your assertion that Ware had to take on Tightends more than Ware is completely baseless. Fujita and Singleton are matched up over Shockey for the majority of the game.

Let's cut Ware, and bring in Carpenter and bring back Fujita to play OLB on the other side since Ware sucks so much. We are the only team whinning about a player like Ware and his "type", and yet the Chargers are singing praise to the great Merriman who is the same player.

I think we need to get the draft here before we go nuts!

 

[Hostile]

You need to tell me why Burnett can't do what Carpenter does? You need to tell me why Greenway can't do what Carpenter does? You need to tell me why Carpenter had inferior numbers to Hawk and they both played OLB? You need to tell me why Thomas Howard (who had much better numbers than Carpenter, twice as fast and just as big except for a few pounds he can add) is better?

What makes Carpenter the almighty great around here? I'm starting to think that the media has really gotten to some people around here. I'm starting to root for Greenway and HOward now.

The love affair with one player is borderline psychotic. Atleast I'm willing to say, if we don't draft Lawson, then I'm happy with this guy or that guy or this other guy. But it's going to be mighty funny if we come away with a big Fujita in this draft, and some other team is left with the next Willie McGinest.

Can I try this?

First of all with regards to Burnett doing what Carpenter does. If he's healthy perhaps he can. Take it from someone who suffered a knee injury. That isn't always a given.

The "borderline psychotic" description is way off the mark. Why are you offended that people like Carpenter better than someone else? You seem to be the one getting feelings hurt here and are projecting that back at others. I've seen several people on the Carpenter bandwagon say they'd be happy with Lawson.

You've got Carpenter labeled the next Fujita and Lawson labeled the next McGinnest. What do you base this upon? What factual data beyond your own opinion? Are you saying Lawson is a 100% guarantee stud and Carpenter is a 100% guarantee failure? How can you say this with any degree of certainty? Enquiring minds want to know.

Mostly I'd like to figure why you seem so offended by the very idea of drafting Carpenter. I sort of feel like I need to throw you a ring buoy.

You even attempt to swerve the facts by comparing his numbers to Hawk's and saying both are OLB's at Ohio State. This completely ignores the fact that WOLBs often have better stats behind them. Want proof? Look at the already posted stats of Ware and all of the combined SOLBs of 2005. Defensive schemes are designed to funnel certain aspects of the game at given spots.

Make no mistake about it, I'm not saying if they switched sides their numbers would reverse. But there is something to be said about having the assignment of the TE on your side of the field too. Carpenter's stats were nothing to sneeze at.

With regards to Thomas Howard and Chad Greenway both played the WOLB the majority of the time. Hence their stats.

Stats do not tell the whole story of a player. That is a trap. People get too wrapped up in them. An example would be someone (not naming names) thinking Ty Law is better than Terence Newman because he had 10 INTs last year. Newman didn't come close to that number. That number doesn't tell the whole story though does it? That is often the case.

Why do the scouting services list Carpenter as such a good NFL prospect? Perhaps if you took the time to actually watch what he does, you could answer this yourself.

People like him for one very simple reason, he already plays SOLB and does it really well. Why would it be wrong to get excited about that?

I admit it, I don't get your anger at this at all.

 

[rexrobinson]

Let's cut Ware, and bring in Carpenter and bring back Fujita to play OLB on the other side since Ware sucks so much. We are the only team whinning about a player like Ware and his "type", and yet the Chargers are singing praise to the great Merriman who is the same player.

I think we need to get the draft here before we go nuts!

no only the EXTREME vocal minority are devaluing what Ware did last year. The rest of us not only have faith in Ware, but also Parcells for picking him in the first place.

 

[Clove]

Can I try this?

First of all with regards to Burnett doing what Carpenter does. If he's healthy perhaps he can. Take it from someone who suffered a knee injury. That isn't always a given.

The "borderline psychotic" description is way off the mark. Why are you offended that people like Carpenter better than someone else? You seem to be the one getting feelings hurt here and are projecting that back at others. I've seen several people on the Carpenter bandwagon say they'd be happy with Lawson.

You've got Carpenter labeled the next Fujita and Lawson labeled the next McGinnest. What do you base this upon? What factual data beyond your own opinion? Are you saying Lawson is a 100% guarantee stud and Carpenter is a 100% guarantee failure? How can you say this with any degree of certainty? Enquiring minds want to know.

Mostly I'd like to figure why you seem so offended by the very idea of drafting Carpenter. I sort of feel like I need to throw you a ring buoy.

You even attempt to swerve the facts by comparing his numbers to Hawk's and saying both are OLB's at Ohio State. This completely ignores the fact that WOLBs often have better stats to behind them. Want proof? Look at the already posted stats of Ware and all of the combined SOLBs of 2005. Defensive schemes are designed to funnel certain aspects of the game at given spots.

Make no mistake about it, I'm not saying if they switched sides their numbers would reverse. But there is something to be said about having the assignmentof the TE on your side of the field too. Carpenter's stats were nothing to sneeze at.

With regards to Thomas Howard and Chad Greenway both played the WOLB the majority of the time. hence their stats.

Stats do not tell the whole story of a player. That is a trap. People get too wrapped up in them. An example would be someone (not naming names) thinking Ty Law is better than Terence Newman because he had 10 INTs last year. Newman didn't come close to that number. That number doesn't tell the whole story though does it? That is often the case.

Why do the scouting services list Carpenter as such a good NFL prospect? Perhaps if you took the time to actually watch what he does, you could answer this yourself.

People like him for one very simple reason, he already plays SOLB and does it really well. Why would it be wrong to get excited about that?

I admit it, I don't get your anger at this at all.

I'm not angry at all. It just seems like people latch on to someone, while degrading the other person.

Yes I like Lawson. And yes I like Carpenter. But if you're going to compare Tweeners to OLBrs, then I'm bringing in guys like Greenway and Howard. I just want to know why Greenway wouldn't be able to do what Carpenter does, or why Howard who is faster than Lawson (and a natural OLB) why people aren't praising Howard?

My point is, Ohio State was in the spot light much more than the likes of UTEP and IOWA. And the fact that Carpenters dad played in the NFL, along with the fact that Carpenter played with a "freak" in AJ Hawk. Do you want speed? Howard has it... Do you want size? Howard has the height and Greenway has the bulk? Do you want aggression, I give that to Carpenter.

So then what seperates those players would have to be stats. Now you can't tell me that everyone decided to run at AJ Hawk, and no one ran at Carpenter. Who was making all of the tackles on Carpenters side of the field? It must have been Hawk based on his stats.

If none of us have watched every snap of every game from each of these players, then we can't seriously say which one is better.

Now if you ask me, I personally think that a tweener can play that position, but others don't think it, and that's okay. But I'm left with this freakishly talented player in Lawson, that comes around every 10 years or so, and I can't seem to dismiss that something in me to pick a guy that can be scary to OCs. If Lawson was 275 pounds, he would go number 1 in the draft.

AJ Hawk is a freak, and that's why he will be drafted high. Carpenter is not a freak, just a really solid player. If we pick Lawson and he doesn't get the job done, we have Burnett (6'3 249ish) we have Ayodele who can move over and Burnett can man the middle. But if he does work out, we have a player that can tear up this league in all aspects.

He can blankett receivers shallow.. He can cover any running back or TE coming out the back field. He has the awareness to blow up screen plays.. His 10 yd dash time is so impressive, he can be in that back field before the QB can receive the snap. His tackles for loss will be huge. And he can be a special teams gem. So I said all of that to say, I'm not mad..

 

[Justis]

no only the EXTREME vocal minority are devaluing what Ware did last year. The rest of us not only have faith in Ware, but also Parcells for picking him in the first place.

yeah pretty much anyone who criticizes Ware's rookie performance have completly invalidated their opinions.

 

[speedkilz88]

Can I try this?

First of all with regards to Burnett doing what Carpenter does. If he's healthy perhaps he can. Take it from someone who suffered a knee injury. That isn't always a given.

The "borderline psychotic" description is way off the mark. Why are you offended that people like Carpenter better than someone else? You seem to be the one getting feelings hurt here and are projecting that back at others. I've seen several people on the Carpenter bandwagon say they'd be happy with Lawson.

You've got Carpenter labeled the next Fujita and Lawson labeled the next McGinnest. What do you base this upon? What factual data beyond your own opinion? Are you saying Lawson is a 100% guarantee stud and Carpenter is a 100% guarantee failure? How can you say this with any degree of certainty? Enquiring minds want to know.

Mostly I'd like to figure why you seem so offended by the very idea of drafting Carpenter. I sort of feel like I need to throw you a ring buoy.

You even attempt to swerve the facts by comparing his numbers to Hawk's and saying both are OLB's at Ohio State. This completely ignores the fact that WOLBs often have better stats behind them. Want proof? Look at the already posted stats of Ware and all of the combined SOLBs of 2005. Defensive schemes are designed to funnel certain aspects of the game at given spots.

Make no mistake about it, I'm not saying if they switched sides their numbers would reverse. But there is something to be said about having the assignment of the TE on your side of the field too. Carpenter's stats were nothing to sneeze at.

With regards to Thomas Howard and Chad Greenway both played the WOLB the majority of the time. Hence their stats.

Stats do not tell the whole story of a player. That is a trap. People get too wrapped up in them. An example would be someone (not naming names) thinking Ty Law is better than Terence Newman because he had 10 INTs last year. Newman didn't come close to that number. That number doesn't tell the whole story though does it? That is often the case.

Why do the scouting services list Carpenter as such a good NFL prospect? Perhaps if you took the time to actually watch what he does, you could answer this yourself.

People like him for one very simple reason, he already plays SOLB and does it really well. Why would it be wrong to get excited about that?

I admit it, I don't get your anger at this at all.

Well Hos, the thread is titled "Just say NO to converting a DE to LB" (A little overboard, don't you think?) There has also been a lot of knocking of Lawson even though the nfl seems to have him rated as a higher talent to Carpenter who is usually described as solid.

It reminds me of last year when there were certain people knocking Merriman and then Ware because they wanted Pollack. I don't know about you, but I am so glad that we stayed away from that guy. I think that some are way out of line on this from the Carpenter side. I want the best talent at 3-4, I think that its Lawson, then Wimbley, and then Carpenter. If the Cowboys decide or have to get Carpenter than I will be fine with it, I'm not going to knock him just because I like Lawson and Wimbley better because of their talent.

 

[Hostile]

I'm not angry at all. It just seems like people latch on to someone, while degrading the other person.

Yes I like Lawson. And yes I like Carpenter. But if you're going to compare Tweeners to OLBrs, then I'm bringing in guys like Greenway and Howard. I just want to know why Greenway wouldn't be able to do what Carpenter does, or why Howard who is faster than Lawson (and a natural OLB) why people aren't praising Howard?

My point is, Ohio State was in the spot light much more than the likes of UTEP and IOWA. And the fact that Carpenters dad played in the NFL, along with the fact that Carpenter played with a "freak" in AJ Hawk. Do you want speed? Howard has it... Do you want size? Howard has the height and Greenway has the bulk? Do you want aggression, I give that to Carpenter.

So then what seperates those players would have to be stats. Now you can't tell me that everyone decided to run at AJ Hawk, and no one ran at Carpenter. Who was making all of the tackles on Carpenters side of the field? It must have been Hawk based on his stats.

If none of us have watched every snap of every game from each of these players, then we can't seriously say which one is better.

Now if you ask me, I personally think that a tweener can play that position, but others don't think it, and that's okay. But I'm left with this freakishly talented player in Lawson, that comes around every 10 years or so, and I can't seem to dismiss that something in me to pick a guy that can be scary to OCs. If Lawson was 275 pounds, he would go number 1 in the draft.

AJ Hawk is a freak, and that's why he will be drafted high. Carpenter is not a freak, just a really solid player. If we pick Lawson and he doesn't get the job done, we have Burnett (6'3 249ish) we have Ayodele who can move over and Burnett can man the middle. But if he does work out, we have a player that can tear up this league in all aspects.

He can blankett receivers shallow.. He can cover any running back or TE coming out the back field. He has the awareness to blow up screen plays.. His 10 yd dash time is so impressive, he can be in that back field before the QB can receive the snap. His tackles for loss will be huge. And he can be a special teams gem. So I said all of that to say, I'm not mad..

First of all I don't see anyone else throwing out hyperbole about borderline psychotic fascinations. You might re-read your post I responded to. If you don't think you sound mad, read it to someone completely sterile from this discussion but whose opinion you trust. Read it as if someone wrote that to you. I bet they ask you why that person is so angry at you.

Do you honestly want me to tell you that Ohio State gets more pub than Iowa or UTEP as a reason why Carpenter has more recognition among fans?

How about that Ohio State also plays a higher level of competition than UTEP? Virtually equal to Iowa, same conference.

Do we need to publicly apologize for Ohio State having national recogntion as a football factory? Come on man, it isn't that personal.

I already pointed out the discrepency of the stats. What part of WOLBs generally have higher stats is unclear? If you focus solely on the stats you'll miss the boat. Please just let this sink in, Bobby Carpenter is a very good football player.

I don't see where Carpenter's stats are so piss poor anyway. Maybe you need to point them out to the entire football scouting world and educate them. Then they wouldn't be misleading all of us.

I'd love to have Lawson. There's no guarantee he's a "freak," but I like the odds. You're condemning people for a singular focus on one player, and you're singularly focused on another. Remember when you point a finger at someone that 3 of your own are pointing back at you.

People fall in love with players all the time. I promise you there will be a how to acquire Vince Young in a trade up thread between now and the draft. Just like there will be Lawson, Carpenter, Wimbley, Justice, and other players hyped.

If you're going to let it upset you, you might want to invest in some Maalox.

:wink2:

 

[Hostile]

Well Hos, the thread is titled "Just say NO to converting a DE to LB" (A little overboard, don't you think?) There has also been a lot of knocking of Lawson even though the nfl seems to have him rated as a higher talent to Carpenter who is usually described as solid.

It reminds me of last year when there were certain people knocking Merriman and then Ware because they wanted Pollack. I don't know about you, but I am so glad that we stayed away from that guy. I think that some are way out of line on this from the Carpenter side. I want the best talent at 3-4, I think that its Lawson, then Wimbley, and then Carpenter. If the Cowboys decide or have to get Carpenter than I will be fine with it, I'm not going to knock him just because I like Lawson and Wimbley better because of their talent.

The title of the thread is an opinion meant to spark a debate. Which it has.

Please read the author's post #76.

Sound to you like he'd slit his wrists if we drafted Lawson?

 

[Bluefin]

I think given the needs of what a strong-side OLB is suppose to do in the 3-4 I don't see how any of these pass-rush specialists are going to do what we need them to do--- even though many here seem to be in love with sacks and damn any other responsibilities.

No doubt the hardest thing to figure about prospects the majority of us have never watched in any detail.

We get consumed with their measurables, especially sacks and 40 times, but we don't know the players.

I don't know which of the defensive end prospects can successfully transition to outside linebacker if drafted by a 3-4 team and even the people who are paid to know get it wrong at some point every year.

There are so many variables involved.

JJT has said we don't give Al Singleton enough credit for his work against the run, but Frenchy has ignored the fact that a 3-4 with a run defender on one side isn't a 3-4 at all.

We must get more pass rush from the strongside 'backer this season, but it can't be at the expense of having bad run defense.

Whoever we get, the player will have a lot on his plate to learn no matter what position he played in college.

An end will have to learn to play in space, but he will already be accustomed to fighting bigger offensive linemen.

A linebacker would be more comfortable in space and coverage in all likelihood, but he wouldn't be at home regularly engaging offensive linemen.

Either way can work, IMO, so I don't really care how we add new prospects at outside linebacker.

Just get some new blood.

Something else to consider is 2007.

I think there's a good chance that this will be Parcells' last year.

The new coach may want to use a 4-3, so if Dallas is seriously considering choosing a LB with its first pick this year, it needs to be someone who can play OLB in either scheme.

That's one thing that scares me about retaining Mike Zimmer.

I think it's imperitive that the new coach stay with the 3-4 to best continue what Parcells has started in Big D.

Zim is a 4-3 coach, I don't think he'll change his stripes.

 

[Clove]

Well Hos, the thread is titled "Just say NO to converting a DE to LB" (A little overboard, don't you think?) There has also been a lot of knocking of Lawson even though the nfl seems to have him rated as a higher talent to Carpenter who is usually described as solid.

It reminds me of last year when there were certain people knocking Merriman and then Ware because they wanted Pollack. I don't know about you, but I am so glad that we stayed away from that guy. I think that some are way out of line on this from the Carpenter side. I want the best talent at 3-4, I think that its Lawson, then Wimbley, and then Carpenter. If the Cowboys decide or have to get Carpenter than I will be fine with it, I'm not going to knock him just because I like Lawson and Wimbley better because of their talent.

I'm not really going to bash the Carpenter bandwagoners, because Carpenter did put up monster numbers his Junior year. My problem is when they forget about Greenway and Howard. And my other problem is when they say that you can't have 2 tweeners, I don't believe that.

I watched Howard and Greenway both in the senior bowl. I came away un-impressed with Greenway, but very impressed with Howard. They guy had nearly 2 interceptions (went straight thru his hands) but in coverage, he was unstoppable and was around the ball the entire game.

Lawson was so so to me in that game, but he wasn't playing OLB where he should've been.

I like Lawson based on his numbers and his freakishly athletic ability.

 

[junk]

Very interesting point.

I'd think Dallas has committed so much to the 3-4 by means of its young draftees that it might be forced to use a 3-4 regardless of coach. The defense has been totally remade in its front 7. Not sure Spears, Bradie James, Ferguson, Ware, Canty, and Ratliff are as good if you switch to the 4-3.
We have jettisoned or lost Dat, Coakley, Glover and all 3 were standout 4-3 guys.

But I do think it will be interesting to watch this draft for evidence of bet hedging. Last year was all clearly 3-4 guys all the time.

Teams after BP quits usually retains the 3-4 for a bit at least with a BP disciple as coach. I expect the top coach ont he food chain here would be Zimmer and he is of course a man cover 4-3 guy at heart with lots of zone cover 2 exposure now and at least 2 years of 3-4.

I don't agree at all. I think the only guy that might struggle in a 4-3 switch would be Canty.

Ware could play end, no problem. Spears would be terrific at a DT position. I think his game would be very similar to Kevin Williams.

Ferguson has publicly said he prefers the 4-3. James, Spears, Ratliff and Ware all played primarily 4-3 in college.

The great thing about last year's draft, besides acquiring great talent, was the fact the players they drafted are flexible enough to succeed in any scheme.

 

[junk]

I'm not really going to bash the Carpenter bandwagoners, because Carpenter did put up monster numbers his Junior year. My problem is when they forget about Greenway and Howard. And my other problem is when they say that you can't have 2 tweeners, I don't believe that.

I watched Howard and Greenway both in the senior bowl. I came away un-impressed with Greenway, but very impressed with Howard. They guy had nearly 2 interceptions (went straight thru his hands) but in coverage, he was unstoppable and was around the ball the entire game.

Lawson was so so to me in that game, but he wasn't playing OLB where he should've been.

I like Lawson based on his numbers and his freakishly athletic ability.

Nobody is forgetting about Greenway or Howard. People just aren't touting them because they don't feel they fit the scheme as well as someone like Carpenter.

You yourself said you came away unimpressed with Greenway. OK, I've watched him live and seen him off and on for the last two years. I always came away with that impression from Greenway.

Howard seems like a sideline to sideline LBer who is better suited to a 4-3 weak side LBer position. He played at a lower level competition and doesn't have the experience rushing the passer that Carpenter has.

We've discussed these issues inside and out. You seem to only hear what you want to hear.

 

[Hostile]

I'm not really going to bash the Carpenter bandwagoners, because Carpenter did put up monster numbers his Junior year. My problem is when they forget about Greenway and Howard. And my other problem is when they say that you can't have 2 tweeners, I don't believe that.

I watched Howard and Greenway both in the senior bowl. I came away un-impressed with Greenway, but very impressed with Howard. They guy had nearly 2 interceptions (went straight thru his hands) but in coverage, he was unstoppable and was around the ball the entire game.

Lawson was so so to me in that game, but he wasn't playing OLB where he should've been.

I like Lawson based on his numbers and his freakishly athletic ability.

Just my opinion but the reason people like Carpenter over Greenway and Howard has everything to do with the 3-4 scheme. I know that's my reasoning.

Take it for what it's worth.

 

[Clove]

First of all I don't see anyone else throwing out hyperbole about borderline psychotic fascinations. You might re-read your post I responded to. If you don't think you sound mad, read it to someone completely sterile from this discussion but whose opinion you trust. Read it as if someone wrote that to you. I bet they ask you why that person is so angry at you.

Do you honestly want me to tell you that Ohio State gets more pub than Iowa or UTEP as a reason why Carpenter has more recognition among fans?

How about that Ohio State also plays a higher level of competition than UTEP? Virtually equal to Iowa, same conference.

Do we need to publicly apologize for Ohio State having national recogntion as a football factory? Come on man, it isn't that personal.

I already pointed out the discrepency of the stats. What part of WOLBs generally have higher stats is unclear? If you focus solely on the stats you'll miss the boat. Please just let this sink in, Bobby Carpenter is a very good football player.

I don't see where Carpenter's stats are so piss poor anyway. Maybe you need to point them out to the entire football scouting world and educate them. Then they wouldn't be misleading all of us.

I'd love to have Lawson. There's no guarantee he's a "freak," but I like the odds. You're condemning people for a singular focus on one player, and you're singularly focused on another. Remember when you point a finger at someone that 3 of your own are pointing back at you.

People fall in love with players all the time. I promise you there will be a how to acquire Vince Young in a trade up thread between now and the draft. Just like there will be Lawson, Carpenter, Wimbley, Justice, and other players hyped.

If you're going to let it upset you, you might want to invest in some Maalox.

:wink2:

Not upset, this is just a meaningless converssation about players we want and probably won't get, so their's no reason for any of us to get up set. It just seems like the love over Carpenter is psychotically overboard in that "Quincy Carter/Drew Bledsoe/Troy Aikman" type of way.

Meaning, when people fall in love with the guys I mentioned above, they go way over board to protect their opinion. Meanwhile, I'm willing to see things on both sides of the fence, and BTW, I completely respect you and your opinion (you're a borderline genius ).

But this debate is about Tweeners converting to OLBrs, and this is all based on Carpenter being the best, and I completely disagree.

I could be wrong (I've been wrong more often than right in my life) but I doubt that I am. I would never chose Wimbley over Carpenter. I think that Carpenter is the second best fit for our defense as an OLB. I think that Howard is neck and neck with Carpenter, and Greenway is slightly below those 2.

But then you have Lawson.. A guy that has the ability to stay with TEs. You could easily move Ware to the opposite size since he's gained weight and is already as strong as an ox. Lawson could come in and be the freak that he is by disrupting the backfield, and picking off passes ment for TEs and RBs.
I'm totally sick and tired of having one great pass rusher on this team.

I'm tired of seeing people double team Ware, and then their's nothing on the QB. We can get all of the Linebackers in the world, but if we can't get pressure on the QB we will not see the light of day at the Super Bowl. With that being said, Carpenter can get to the QB, but Lawson is just better at it IMO. Carpenter won't be able to bull rush anyone in the NFL like in College, he's going to have to have some bull rush and speed to get it done and Lawson has both.

Lawson will however have to be able to read the run and stay in coverage (which I don't know if Carpenter is good at is, but Howard showed he can cover anyone). Lawson will have to take on blocks, which he's done his entire career.

So I say Lawson, and have Burnett back him up. And if for some reason we went back to a 4-3 because of a new coach in a couple of years, we still have our 2 DE's for the future.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

Not upset, this is just a meaningless converssation about players we want and probably won't get, so their's no reason for any of us to get up set. It just seems like the love over Carpenter is psychotically overboard in that "Quincy Carter/Drew Bledsoe/Troy Aikman" type of way.

Meaning, when people fall in love with the guys I mentioned above, they go way over board to protect their opinion. Meanwhile, I'm willing to see things on both sides of the fence, and BTW, I completely respect you and your opinion (you're a borderline genius ).

But this debate is about Tweeners converting to OLBrs, and this is all based on Carpenter being the best, and I completely disagree.

I could be wrong (I've been wrong more often than right in my life) but I doubt that I am. I would never chose Wimbley over Carpenter. I think that Carpenter is the second best fit for our defense as an OLB. I think that Howard is neck and neck with Carpenter, and Greenway is slightly below those 2.

But then you have Lawson.. A guy that has the ability to stay with TEs. You could easily move Ware to the opposite size since he's gained weight and is already as strong as an ox. Lawson could come in and be the freak that he is by disrupting the backfield, and picking off passes ment for TEs and RBs.
I'm totally sick and tired of having one great pass rusher on this team.

I'm tired of seeing people double team Ware, and then their's nothing on the QB. We can get all of the Linebackers in the world, but if we can't get pressure on the QB we will not see the light of day at the Super Bowl. With that being said, Carpenter can get to the QB, but Lawson is just better at it IMO. Carpenter won't be able to bull rush anyone in the NFL like in College, he's going to have to have some bull rush and speed to get it done and Lawson has both.

Lawson will however have to be able to read the run and stay in coverage (which I don't know if Carpenter is good at is, but Howard showed he can cover anyone). Lawson will have to take on blocks, which he's done his entire career.

So I say Lawson, and have Burnett back him up. And if for some reason we went back to a 4-3 because of a new coach in a couple of years, we still have our 2 DE's for the future.

The more I read from other Cowboys fans who share the same viewpoint, the more I realize it's gonna be a sad day when another team picks Lawson in front of us.

The potential to have 2 DeMarcus Wares. *sigh*

 

[Hostile]

Not upset, this is just a meaningless converssation about players we want and probably won't get, so their's no reason for any of us to get up set. It just seems like the love over Carpenter is psychotically overboard in that "Quincy Carter/Drew Bledsoe/Troy Aikman" type of way.

Meaning, when people fall in love with the guys I mentioned above, they go way over board to protect their opinion. Meanwhile, I'm willing to see things on both sides of the fence, and BTW, I completely respect you and your opinion (you're a borderline genius ).

But this debate is about Tweeners converting to OLBrs, and this is all based on Carpenter being the best, and I completely disagree.

I could be wrong (I've been wrong more often than right in my life) but I doubt that I am. I would never chose Wimbley over Carpenter. I think that Carpenter is the second best fit for our defense as an OLB. I think that Howard is neck and neck with Carpenter, and Greenway is slightly below those 2.

But then you have Lawson.. A guy that has the ability to stay with TEs. You could easily move Ware to the opposite size since he's gained weight and is already as strong as an ox. Lawson could come in and be the freak that he is by disrupting the backfield, and picking off passes ment for TEs and RBs.
I'm totally sick and tired of having one great pass rusher on this team.

I'm tired of seeing people double team Ware, and then their's nothing on the QB. We can get all of the Linebackers in the world, but if we can't get pressure on the QB we will not see the light of day at the Super Bowl. With that being said, Carpenter can get to the QB, but Lawson is just better at it IMO. Carpenter won't be able to bull rush anyone in the NFL like in College, he's going to have to have some bull rush and speed to get it done and Lawson has both.

Lawson will however have to be able to read the run and stay in coverage (which I don't know if Carpenter is good at is, but Howard showed he can cover anyone). Lawson will have to take on blocks, which he's done his entire career.

So I say Lawson, and have Burnett back him up. And if for some reason we went back to a 4-3 because of a new coach in a couple of years, we still have our 2 DE's for the future.

"Borderline psychotic" doesn't seem overbaord to you? Seriously? (<<< The guys at the Cesspool needed their fix for their obsession with my posting methods.)

:wink2:

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53550

The poll above doesn't exactly back up your assertions. Lawson is the lead dog.

I'd love to have him. Ask AdButcher. We've had some great discussions about bookend OLBs with him and Ware.

Oh, if we went back to a 4-3 what do you do with Canty and Spears? You just toss them aside like yesterday's mail? Something to think about with regards to Carpenter as well. Don't you think?