Just start over

Discussion in 'Fan Zone' started by erod, Jan 28, 2021.

  1. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    The one we're talking about does.
     
  2. CouchCoach

    CouchCoach Moderator

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    Starting over assumes you won't end up in the same place, if you follow the same map.

    Starting over only works if one has learned something, made some mistakes that they will not remake this time.

    Starting over assumes you cannot get there from here, here being where you are now. If you turn around and go back, there's no assurance you won't end up right back here again.

    Tell me, what do you think this brain trust has learned that would make a difference? Think they've experienced enough pain to not make those same mistakes again?

    The unusual circumstance of this situation doesn't bode well for the fans with starting over. They get rewarded for whatever they do so whatever they want to do just keeps happening.
     
  3. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    1. A sports team is no different than a business. What are you, 12?! The NFL doesn't exist for recreation. The Cowboys aren't playing sports for fun. The players aren't playing football because they like to. It's a job for a business like any other. Acting like players have some kind of selfless duty to their fans, franchise, or owners is complete and total garbage. Especially so because both fans and the franchise will drop players like a bad habit the second they become unproductive, unprofitable, or old.

    2. So because they're making so much money, they shouldn't want what they're worth? I would agree that, on the surface, 'I need an extra 2 million' would seem greedy to most people, if the owners--and really, the super wealthy class in general--werent also trying to maximize their already insane wealth. The super wealthy are constantly trying to evade taxes, crush competition, pay their workers on the cheap, so they can grow their vast sums of money.

    But the second a player asks for more, and it's usually someone who came from nothing or very little wealth, fans have the nerve to call them greedy. For asking for a bigger piece of the pie from their owners who are, let's be honest, eating the whole thing
     
  4. doomsday9084

    doomsday9084 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'm of the opposite opinion. Give this group about 2 years. Dallas is already screwed with Tank, Jaylon and Zeke's contracts. You aren't getting out of them now. The team is a little too good to completely tank. They aren't going to fire McCarthy, who blatantly sucks.

    Give Dak the short deal he wants. 3 years. Restructure a few contracts but don't extend them past that 3 year window. Draft all defense. See what happens.

    If in 2 years it doesn't work, trade Dak, start cutting people and tank. Fire McCarthy. Then start the next year with no long term bad deals and try to rebuild.

    Jerry made this bed, he might as well sleep in it.
     
  5. gjkoeppen

    gjkoeppen Well-Known Member

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    You forget one HUGE factor. Many of those players you want to just dump have contracts with if nothing else signing bonuses that were averaged out over the life of the contract while others have that and still have guaranteed money all of which adds to the dead money which reduces that cap made smaller to sign other players.. Second since as you say and I agree with that teams will be trimming their rosters to some extent because of a smaller cap, they won't be then interested in trading for a player with a big cap hit. they could just keep the players they release instead.

    Because of everything about this season, the league has made a change for just 2021 season that will allow teams to carryover as much money from this year as they want. The Cowboys will have about 25 mil in carryover which will go a long way in off setting the smaller cap. The smart thing isn't blowing that added cap space by adding a ton of dead money to it.

    You're a good example why fans are never hired as GM's or capologists..
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  6. gjkoeppen

    gjkoeppen Well-Known Member

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    The cap is going to smaller because when the new league starts the TV networks make their payments for broadcasting the games. With no preseason games that were paid for, the networks will want a reduced payment for 2021 for all those preseason games that weren't broadcasted. The networks loss money on that because of no preseason games they had no commercial time to sell to make their money. Since the largest part of the league revenue is from those TV contracts, it means less money so the cap will have to be reduced.
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  7. gjkoeppen

    gjkoeppen Well-Known Member

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    And to think teams that have loyal fans who had to wait a very long time for the ultimate prize. The Cubs and their fans had to wait generations of over 100 years before they won a world series. I wish the Cowboys would win 5 or 6 Super Bowls in a row to set a record that won't ever be broken, but it's not going to happen. If they don't a Super Bowl in the next 3 years I'll be disappointed but that will not cause me to stop being a Cowboys fan. The Cowboys have gone to 8 Super Bowls winning 5 and then there are teams like the lions, jags, browns and texans that have NEVER been to the Super Bowl. When I hear or read people that say if the Cowboys don't get to the Super Bowl in X amount of time or else, the first thing I think of is that is how a spoiled little kid acts.
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  8. gjkoeppen

    gjkoeppen Well-Known Member

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    Did I miss something? Parcells didn't win a Super Bowl while in Dallas so you're idea is to bring in another coach that will do like Parcells and not win a Super Bowl? Parcells was a good coach when he was with the giants, but he did nothing when he went to the patriots and did nothing when he went to the jets. He was out of the league for 3 years before coming out of retirement to coach the Cowboys.
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  9. fivetwos

    fivetwos Well-Known Member

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    Is everything measured by winning a SB only?

    The guy turned around this franchise, and many others.

    Either way.....if Jerry didn't pull his "thanks, ill take it from here" routine....Parcells would have had that 2007 team ready to play the Giants game. That much I know.
     
  10. CouchCoach

    CouchCoach Moderator

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    Correct me if I am wrong but don't most teams starting over start over at that GM team builder level?

    If a builder built you a crummy house, would you pay him to build you another?

    This isn't like they've just been screwing up on purpose, they honestly are very mediocre at building a NFL team. Might as well try and continue to build one out of this batch of coaches and players.
     
    DandyDon52 likes this.
  11. ESisback

    ESisback Well-Known Member

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    Greed wins! Even though they’re already billionaires, they expect/demand their profits increase or at least stay the same, no matter what the market is doing. Just like the rest of Corporate America! Let Joe Shmoe sacrifice/do without/play by the rules!
     
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  12. gjkoeppen

    gjkoeppen Well-Known Member

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    First Parcells alsi said he "wanted to buy some of the groceries" and then after a couple of years he want to "buy more of the groceries" and be the defacto GM and Jones wasn't going to give him complete control like that so Parcells after a couple of years of not getting to be the defacto GM, he decided to leave and never coached for another team.

    Second you don't really know, you may think, but that's not knowing. You can't know because it never happened so you can only have your opinion and think that.

    Third I just pointed out that you said that the Cowboys should hire a coach like they had with Parcells and I pointed out he didn't do squat after leaving the giants so the Cowboys don't need another old coach that hasn't done anything in 13 seasons.
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  13. ondaedg

    ondaedg Well-Known Member

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    Yep. 5 year rebuilds went out of style in like 1989.
     
  14. StarBoyz83

    StarBoyz83 Well-Known Member

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    I think dallas can contend in 2-3 years
     
  15. kskboys

    kskboys Well-Known Member

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    More flaws in your thinking.

    1. No one is saying the players should play for peanuts.
    2. Any player's worth is completely subjective.
    3. The super wealthy is a completely different discussion and doesn't have any relevance in this discussion.
    4. This bigger piece of the pie you're referring to comes from other players' paychecks.
     
    Haimerej likes this.
  16. rags

    rags Well-Known Member

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    Is it worth the gamble to start over? I say no.
     
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  17. Gaede

    Gaede Well-Known Member

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    1. No, you're saying they should accept less than they feel they deserve because they should care more about the team's salary situation than their own. Asking anyone to take less they deserve is wrong. And dumb, when not a single one of us would voluntarily do that ourselves.
    2. Obviously. So how are they greedy when their evaluation of their worth is different than yours?
    3. I brought them up as an example of what true greed is. Absolutely part of the discussion, when the discussion involves 'what is greed?'
    4. That is true. BUT it is not the player's responsibility. It is the owners. If they want to have elite players on the team, they need to pay them like elite players. Which, unfortunately, means they have to employ less elite players. OWNERS ARE IN CHARGE OF THE SALARY CAP--not the players. The onus of fitting under the salary cap is not on the players, who are righteously trying to maximize their own pay. The onus is on the owners to make it work with the salaries they choose to pay. Players are not greedy for looking after themselves and pursuing the highest salary possible, they are completely justified. Owners (and fans) putting the onus on the players to take less than they are worth, so the team can maximize how many talented players they can employ, and at bargain prices, are the greedy ones. IN that, they want to eat their cake (employ as many elite players as possible) and have it too (but not pay any of them elite money)
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2021
  18. Haimerej

    Haimerej Well-Known Member

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    I believe the point was generalized and more about the decision to distribute finite resources in a way that benefits the organization as a whole.
     
  19. Haimerej

    Haimerej Well-Known Member

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    What a player, "deserves," is decided by what someone is willing to pay. Many times they're not the same and the player has to decide if what they feel like they deserve is more important than playing at all.

    The funny thing is you're saying a player demanding more money isn't, "greed."



    The salary cap is agreed upon by the owners and the NFLPA.

    Why in your mind is it not greedy to pursue, "the highest salary possible," but it is greedy to negotiate for a lower price?
     
  20. xwalker

    xwalker Well-Known Member

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