KTCK on what Parcells wants in his OLB

[Crown Royal]

the only problem i have with this phlisophy is this now means we are subjected to another yr of a guy "learning on the job." how many times did i come to this board last year and see people complaining that parcells wouldnt let demarcus just "rush the passer and not be so worried about his run stopping responsibilities..." and thats the weak side of the formation. how are these guys going to handle coverage responsibilities and consistently being run at on the strong side?

i suppose in the long term we benefit, but i also know that now we have to go through the growing pains of another DE > OLB which kind of sucks.

The one bonus that will make it easier is that the rookie on that side just has to eat a block -

RW will be there for the runner.

 

[Rack]

Playing exclusively DE in college and holding your college's all time sack record (the same college that Porter went to) definitely qualifies as having "some pass rush skills".

Kai Parham had more sacks than Carpenter. Is he qualified to be a 3-4 OLB?

Haggans had more sacks then Porter in college, is he a better pass rusher then Porter?

 

[Alexander]

Or in fact, the people who think Lawson won't be drafted will be very disappointed if he is .

It doesn't matter who they pick to me if he helps the team. Carpenter would be great.

I really don't care who we draft, so long as we get a good player, who can play linebacker. If the coaches and scouts believe that's Lawson, fine. Lawson would be great, so would Carpenter.

But I am amused by what seems to be battlelines drawn, where some individuals are really looking for "their" player to be drafted. I guess they want to be right or something.

 

[Rack]

I really don't care who we draft, so long as we get a good player, who can play linebacker. If the coaches and scouts believe that's Lawson, fine. Lawson would be great, so would Carpenter.

But I am amused by what seems to be battlelines drawn, where some individuals are really looking for "their" player to be drafted. I guess they want to be right or something.

I've never been against drafting Lawson. I've only debated the pros/cons of Carpenter and Lawson.


I just get annoyed that people have to make crap up to justify their favorite player being picked.


Lawson is weak against the run and has very little experience in coverage. No need to sugarcoat that crap by spewing nonesense like "Lawson was weak vs the run as a 4-3 DE, he'll be fine as a 3-4 OLB" or "Lawson will be great in coverage cuz he runs a 4.4". That's just stupid and very annoying.


Or even better, "It's the ILB's job in the 3-4 to stop the run, the OLBs just have to worry about the pass". That's a freakin' classic IMO.


You want Lawson? Fine, but at least accept his weaknesses while you're also talking about his strengths.

You'd think Lawson is the next LT from the way people here talk about him.


Again, I have no problem with any of "the three", but I understand and accept their weaknesses at the same time.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Haggans had more sacks then Porter in college, is he a better pass rusher then Porter?

No, Porter has had more sacks than Haggans, for what that's worth. You said they're not even the same type of player. Nonsense.

 

[Crown Royal]

I've never been against drafting Lawson. I've only debated the pros/cons of Carpenter and Lawson.


I just get annoyed that people have to make crap up to justify their favorite player being picked.


Lawson is weak against the run and has very little experience in coverage. No need to sugarcoat that crap by spewing nonesense like "Lawson was weak vs the run as a 4-3 DE, he'll be fine as a 3-4 OLB" or "Lawson will be great in coverage cuz he runs a 4.4". That's just stupid and very annoying.


Or even better, "It's the ILB's job in the 3-4 to stop the run, the OLBs just have to worry about the pass". That's a freakin' classic IMO.


You want Lawson? Fine, but at least accept his weaknesses while you're also talking about his strengths.

You'd think Lawson is the next LT from the way people here talk about him.


Again, I have no problem with any of "the three", but I understand and accept their weaknesses at the same time.

Post of the thread - I too will be happy with either, or even Wimbley for that matter. I think there are benefits to all three.

My fear with Lawson, though, is that fact that he will be strong side.

Nobody seems to have mentioned it, but Ware, the golden boy (with good reason), DID have problems against the run last year.

This is not a knock - everyone expected it, and it happens. He started off the year VERY poorly against the run (see the SD game - there was a point that LT ran left 3-4 times in a row).

Now he DID get better at the end of the year. Much, much better. And it should be better still this year. But honestly, the saving grace was that he was weakside, so he didn't have to deal with it too often.

If we take a Lawson and plug him in at strong, we are going to hurt against the run at the beginning of the year, which is REALLY bad because we are on the road so much. He will be exposed until he figures out how to shed the blocks and not sale out on every play.

Now he, too, will have a saving grace, in the league's best run stopping SS coming up to protect him, like a 5th LBer. As long as that SOLB can get the blockers out of the way, Roy should take care of the rest.

Sorry - that was a lot of ranting - just wanted to say all 3 will make me happy.

 

[theogt]

I just get annoyed that people have to make crap up to justify their favorite player being picked.

Followed directly by...

Lawson is weak against the run...

Classic.

 

[rexrobinson]

Originally Posted by Rack
I just get annoyed that people have to make crap up to justify their favorite player being picked.

Followed directly by... Quote:
Lawson is weak against the run...
Classic.

 

[The Realist]

This wreaks of Jackson vs Jones and we trade down and take Julius.

God I hope we take Mark Anderson in 2.

Who happen to most resemble the SOLB's BP has had before.

6-5/255, 4.6, 42 VJ

Willie was 6-5/250 when he came out.

BP likes height with his LB's along with size.

 

[Rack]

No, Porter has had more sacks than Haggans, for what that's worth. You said they're not even the same type of player. Nonsense.

They aren't. Can both rush the passer? Yes. Does that make them the same type of player? No.

Followed directly by...

Please... You changed sides of the fence on that matter so often it ain't even funny.


"Lawson is solid vs the run"

"Lawson was weak vs the run as a DE, he'll be fine as a 3-4 OLB"

"Lawson was good vs the run"


You can't make up your f'in mind.


Lawson was weak vs the run. Period. Prove me wrong if you think I'm wrong.



This is exactly the kind of crap I'm talking about. Fine, you've got some MannyLove. Great. But take his sack of your forehead long enough to at least see his weaknesses.



Hey, Rex, thought I was on your ignore list? Couldn't stay away could you?

 

[TNCowboy]

If Lawson is "weak vs. the run", Dallas won't draft him.

I'm tickled with either Lawson or Carpenter.

 

[theogt]

They aren't. Can both rush the passer? Yes. Does that make them the same type of player? No.






Please... You changed sides of the fence on that matter so often it ain't even funny.


"Lawson is solid vs the run"

"Lawson was weak vs the run as a DE, he'll be fine as a 3-4 OLB"

"Lawson was good vs the run"


You can't make up your f'in mind.


Lawson was weak vs the run. Period. Prove me wrong if you think I'm wrong.



This is exactly the kind of crap I'm talking about. Fine, you've got some MannyLove. Great. But take his sack of your forehead long enough to at least see his weaknesses.



Hey, Rex, thought I was on your ignore list? Couldn't stay away could you?

My position has never changed Rack. You, however, resort to making stuff up to support your choice.

Oh, and I'd assume that even if you're on his ignore list he'd still be able to see my posts.

 

[Rack]

If Lawson is "weak vs. the run", Dallas won't draft him.

I'm tickled with either Lawson or Carpenter.

Not necessarily. I didn't say Lawson will always be weak vs the run. Ware was weak vs the run at the start of last season. He improved.


So will Lawson. The thing is it'll be more difficult for Lawson cuz he'll be on the strong side (unless they inexplicably move Ware over). But no doubt he'll improve.

That said, I don't think he'll ever be as good vs the run as Carpenter can be.


I'll be happy with any of the three, which means we'll draft someone else entirely.

 

[Rack]

My position has never changed Rack. You, however, resort to making stuff up to support your choice.

Oh, and I'd assume that even if you're on his ignore list he'd still be able to see my posts.

Liar. Flat out, you are lying.


Not only that, but you don't even understand the responsibilities of the LBs in a 3-4 defense.


"It's the ILBs job to stop the run in the 3-4. The OLBs just have to worry about the pass"


Nuff said.

 

[theogt]

Liar. Flat out, you are lying.


Not only that, but you don't even understand the responsibilities of the LBs in a 3-4 defense.


"It's the ILBs job to stop the run in the 3-4. The OLBs just have to worry about the pass"


Nuff said.

Talk about flat out lying. Continue to distort reality, Rack. No one pay much attention anyway.

 

[Rack]

Talk about flat out lying. Continue to distort reality, Rack. No one pay much attention anyway.

Yeah, you've never said...

"Lawson had trouble vs the run as a 4-3 DE. He'll be fine as a 3-4 OLB"


Or...


"Lawson did pretty good vs the run as a 4-3 DE" <<< I read that one within the last couple of days.



Anyone that HAS payed attention knows you know **** about the 3-4, and the responsibilities of the LBs in a 3-4...


"It's the ILB's job to stop the run in a 3-4, the OLBs just have to worry about the pass"


^^^ Again, that was classic. About as classic as a 30 yard slant.

 

[theogt]

Let me set you straight. I don't want anyone believing your misquotes.

As a 4-3 DE, Lawson would have trouble against the run. He doesn't have the size to be a traditional NFL 4-3 DE. As a 3-4 OLB he's fine against the run.

As for the 3-4 ILB spot, traditionally in the 3-4 the LILB is the run-stopper type. See Akin Ayodele for the type of player I'm referring to. In the 3-4 that Bill intends to run, the OLBs are more versatile (meaning speedy and agile) pass-rushing types.

 

[Billy Bullocks]

he blitzes some, its just that they are predictable and easily blocked too often

he is one of the least creative defensive coordinators ever IMO

David

Is that due to the fact that he hasn't had the personell to bltiz. Coakley and Dat were not blitz specialists. Last year the only threat to get after the QB was Ware...who you gonna blitz? Roy Williams is the only guy I know who was regularly blitzed. You can't make a deceptive blitz if most of the guys are useless at blitzing

 

[rexrobinson]

Your still on ignore Rack and my Cowboyszone experiance couldn't be better except for the fact that unfortuantly the ignore feature won't ignore your text quoted in other users posts.

 

[Rack]

Let me set you straight. I don't want anyone believing your misquotes.

As a 4-3 DE, Lawson would have trouble against the run. He doesn't have the size to be a traditional NFL 4-3 DE. As a 3-4 OLB he's fine against the run.

And you know this, how?

As for the 3-4 ILB spot, traditionally in the 3-4 the LILB is the run-stopper type. See Akin Ayodele for the type of player I'm referring to. In the 3-4 that Bill intends to run, the OLBs are more versatile (meaning speedy and agile) pass-rushing types.

Backpeddling on that one, huh?