La'el Collins Thread - Cleared post 767; visited Cowboys - 05/06/15

[Stash]

Not the same circumstances, but circumstances did make them both UDFA.

Leary's skill isn't what made him go undrafted, it was his knees. I remember Callahan saying he was one of the most nfl ready guard in the draft that year.

Right. A condition that will not improve, nor go away. Would you be comfortable in giving him big guaranteed money a year or two from now? I would not.

 

[Stash]

I'm saying the difference in pedigree isn't as much as you suggest, and the difference in experience and chemistry is significant.

1st and 3rd rounders are a significant difference in pedigree.

 

[Galian Beast]

1st and 3rd rounders are a significant difference in pedigree.

And plenty of 1st round players are busts. Leary is a proven commodity.

 

[Nightman]

Which is a physical condition which could affect on-field performance and availability. When Collins has his issue behind him, it's gone, never to return. Leary's condition will always be an issue.



That's purely speculative. If you could show me where anyone had him graded there, I could agree with you. Collins is a consensus 1st rounder everywhere and Top 15 for many.

I'm not knocking Leary, merely saying he can and should be upgraded if we can.

We had a third round grade on him.

Knowing he would last these 4 years is what would make him a 1st/2nd pick if 2012 was re-drafted today.

 

[Galian Beast]

Right. A condition that will not improve, nor go away. Would you be comfortable in giving him big guaranteed money a year or two from now? I would not.

No I wouldn't, but that is neither here nor there. My point is that I'm not certain Collins beats Leary at LG.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I can only see Leary back after this season on a very incentive based, team friendly deal. The higher upside of Collins and the doubtful future of Leary here play a big role in why I would have no problem moving Leary to b/u or trade and having Collins be the starter.

Leary has a really reasonable contract. If it were me, I would keep Leary because of that contract and because he would be excellent depth at the Guard position. It would also be a good thing for Leary IMO, because the less wear and tear he puts on the knee, the longer his career is likely to last. He will probably never get the big contract but I think he knows that or he would never have signed for the money he just did. If he accepts a backup role, he could have a nice career in Dallas and be a valuable asset to the team. If he decided to move on, that would be understandable and we would simply develop another young player. That's what you have to do in the NFL anyway.

 

[Nightman]

Leary has a really reasonable contract. If it were me, I would keep Leary because of that contract and because he would be excellent depth at the Guard position. It would also be a good thing for Leary IMO, because the less wear and tear he puts on the knee, the longer his career is likely to last. He will probably never get the big contract but I think he knows that or he would never have signed for the money he just did. If he accepts a backup role, he could have a nice career in Dallas and be a valuable asset to the team. If he decided to move on, that would be understandable and we would simply develop another young player. That's what you have to do in the NFL anyway.

Leary has never been paid for real, but he has still made over 2m for these 4 years. He will be an UDFA next year, so we will have a decision to make. If Collins were here that decision would be a lot easier.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Leary has never been paid for real, but he has still made over 2m for these 4 years. He will be an UDFA next year, so we will have a decision to make. If Collins were here that decision would be a lot easier.

Yeah, it would. a fully guaranteed Collins would actually be cheaper, I think, then what Leary will cost.

 

[xwalker]

Which is a physical condition which could affect on-field performance and availability. When Collins has his issue behind him, it's gone, never to return. Leary's condition will always be an issue.



That's purely speculative. If you could show me where anyone had him graded there, I could agree with you. Collins is a consensus 1st rounder everywhere and Top 15 for many.

I'm not knocking Leary, merely saying he can and should be upgraded if we can.

Collins would be a good long term option for multiple reasons but there is a good chance he would not beat out Leary as a rookie. Leary is a very underrated player. Collins has a better chance to beat out Doug Free in 2015 if given a real opportunity to do it.

 

[speedkilz88]

Not the same circumstances, but circumstances did make them both UDFA.

Leary's skill isn't what made him go undrafted, it was his knees. I remember Callahan saying he was one of the most nfl ready guard in the draft that year.

And then they put him on the practice squad.

 

[Galian Beast]

Let's just agree that getting Collins would give us a lot of position flexibility going forward.

The issue remains actually getting him here though. Competition from the Bucs and Dolphins will be hard to beat, I think.

 

[Stash]

I think in the back of their mind that is a factor. Collins would be a huge addition. Hopefully JJ and JG are using all of their LSU connections on Collins

I'd also have our own offensive line go to work on recruiting him.

 

[AzorAhai]

Leary has a really reasonable contract. If it were me, I would keep Leary because of that contract and because he would be excellent depth at the Guard position. It would also be a good thing for Leary IMO, because the less wear and tear he puts on the knee, the longer his career is likely to last. He will probably never get the big contract but I think he knows that or he would never have signed for the money he just did. If he accepts a backup role, he could have a nice career in Dallas and be a valuable asset to the team. If he decided to move on, that would be understandable and we would simply develop another young player. That's what you have to do in the NFL anyway.

Thats true. I would rather keep him as a b/u even if Collins signed, but you never know how a player will react so a trade may be necessary. Looking for his replacement needs to already be taking place though. If you could tell me Leary would play 10 years with no knee problems I would say re-sign him, but because you just don't know a long-term solution needs to be found. His play is solid, but not spectacular whereas Collins has the CHANCE to be great. If I can get a blue chip starting LG for 3 years(4 possibly with a RFA tender) and all it costs is giving him a starting spot at an average players expense who I do it. Particularly when that player has a much higher likelihood than most to have his next game be his last.

Aome added benefits are 1) Gets a top 15 talent at almost zero risk. 2) Significantly upgrade the b/u OG position with Leary and 3) If Collins is really struggling you insert Leary back in as the starter. Just because you tell him he will be the game 1 starter doesn't mean he will be the game 8 starter if his play is subpar.

 

[Galian Beast]

And then they put him on the practice squad.

That year we have Bernadeau and Livings on the pay roll as our starting guards, Dockerry was the backup.

 

[Stash]

Leary's knee is not really degenerative. It is probably in the same condition that it was when he was drafted. Degenerative is a condition that continues to get worse which is not his issue. Jonathan Vilma had the same condition and played 10 years. It is like having a house in an area where tornados are frequent. The house is not degenerating, but has a higher probability a of failure (being hit by a tornado) than houses in other areas of the country.

The description I quoted mentioned an issue with circulation where the bone did not receive enough blood. If that happens for long enough, the odds of that bone crumbling greatly increase.

Not something I would be comfortable making a significant financial investment in over the next year or two. Therefore, the clock is ticking for Leary as a Cowboy. And I feel it's is a real reason why he isn't getting a long term deal.

 

[Stash]

And plenty of 1st round players are busts. Leary is a proven commodity.

Proven average.

I'll go with the guy considered 'can't miss' over the undrafted guy with a bum knee.

If I can upgrade, I will.

 

[Galian Beast]

Proven average.

I'll go with the guy considered 'can't miss' over the undrafted guy with a bum knee.

If I can upgrade, I will.

I've never seen anyone consider Collins a can't miss, and frankly there is no such thing.

You see plenty of rookie linemen not start year one.

 

[Stash]

We had a third round grade on him.

Knowing he would last these 4 years is what would make him a 1st/2nd pick if 2012 was re-drafted today.

Again, that's your opinion. If he had made a Pro Bowl team or been considered by anyone to be the best at his position? Maybe. But that's not the case. He's a good player on a great line.

 

[Stash]

No I wouldn't, but that is neither here nor there. My point is that I'm not certain Collins beats Leary at LG.

Oh, I disagree. I think it's right 'here'. If you do not intend to retain Leary, why wouldn't you look to upgrade the position he plays and replace him for the long term? And with a 'free' first round talent to boot?

 

[Stash]

Collins would be a good long term option for multiple reasons but there is a good chance he would not beat out Leary as a rookie. Leary is a very underrated player. Collins has a better chance to beat out Doug Free in 2015 if given a real opportunity to do it.

I wouldn't have a problem seeing him replace either one. Whatever would get a first round talent to Dallas 'for free' while upgrading our offensive line for the long term can only be a good thing in my opinion.