La'el Collins Thread - Cleared post 767; visited Cowboys - 05/06/15

[Stash]

I didn't say he never played guard before, I said he was a tackle not a guard, and that he will want to get paid like one.

And I clearly showed the he is also a guard and played 13 games there. What point were you trying to make?

 

[Galian Beast]

And I clearly showed the he is also a guard and played 13 games there. What point were you trying to make?

Your reading comprehension is slipping given your agenda.

The point as I said is that he will go to a team where he can play tackle rather than guard.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Sure, rookies like Ron Leary for instance. But first rounders play.

I don't really think this would be a major issue, assuming he is promised a chance to be the RT. I mean, for the first couple of seasons, the money is not going to matter so the position flex would actually help him on his next contract. I agree that he would probably want to play Tackle but he may be a Guard. If he proves to be a starter at Guard and fails at RT, he will always still be a starter at Guard. I really wonder how Collins might look at that situation?

 

[Galian Beast]

I don't really think this would be a major issue, assuming he is promised a chance to be the RT. I mean, for the first couple of seasons, the money is not going to matter so the position flex would actually help him on his next contract. I agree that he would probably want to play Tackle but he may be a Guard. If he proves to be a starter at Guard and fails at RT, he will always still be a starter at Guard. I really wonder how Collins might look at that situation?

Why is that quoting me? I didn't say that.

 

[xwalker]

I'll respectfully agree to disagree. Based on the information I have been provided, it sounds like a chronic condition which will not get better or go away and one that makes him an investment risk.

It's why he originally went undrafted, and it's why teams won't invest significant money in him long term.

I don't think you understand. I'm trying to explain the concept of degenerative which is different than chronic.

Degenerative is something that continues to get worse.

Chronic is something that never goes away.

Regardless of the risk with Leary, the term degenerative is being used incorrectly.

 

[Galian Beast]

His thoughts of playing guard will come later in his career, but I guarantee you he wants a first crack at tackle.

 

[Stash]

Your reading comprehension is slipping given your agenda.

Sure, when you say 'he's a tackle not a guard', how could it not mean that? How could it not mean you don't know enough about the player and the fact that he in fact did play guard?

The point as I said is that he will go to a team where he can play tackle rather than guard.

The point is that that's what you think.

And that opinion is duly noted.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Leary's job in the Cowboys scheme is more difficult than playing LG in most schemes. The cheat Fred and the RG to the right which causes Leary to have to function similar to an OT on many snaps. They could always quit doing that, but then they'll be back to Free playing like he did in 2012.

I think that's actually all the more reason Collins would be a better fit. He is, without question, better at reaching a block and getting to the second level, then is Leary. Leary would likely be stronger and that's going to be a fact of life for Collins, regardless of where he plays or what position he ultimately plays but as far as mobility and leverage, I think Collins is better day one then Leary will ever be.

If we were to sign Leary, I do think that we would change our scheme but that's water that hasn't even made it to the bridge yet so a discussion for another day (I hope).

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Why is that quoting me? I didn't say that.

Don't know. I fixed it.

 

[Stash]

I don't think you understand. I'm trying to explain the concept of degenerative which is different than chronic.

Degenerative is something that continues to get worse.

Chronic is something that never goes away.

Regardless of the risk with Leary, the term degenerative is being used incorrectly.

Then you should take that up with the Star Telegram and multiple other outlets where the description comes from.

Google 'ron leary' and 'degenerative knee issue' and you'll see it widely reported.

 

[Galian Beast]

Sure, when you say 'he's a tackle not a guard', how could it not mean that? How could it not mean you don't know enough about the player and the fact that he in fact did play guard?



The point is that that's what you think.

And that opinion is duly noted.

That's what we call a straw man. This is my topic in the first place, I know who the player is and what his scouting report and college history is. I'm telling you that he is going to want to play tackle and get paid as a tackle. He unlike Martin still has tackle measurables.

 

[Galian Beast]

Sure, when you say 'he's a tackle not a guard', how could it not mean that? How could it not mean you don't know enough about the player and the fact that he in fact did play guard?



The point is that that's what you think.

And that opinion is duly noted.

If drafted maybe he would have been plugged in at guard, as a free agent he has the leverage to ensure he plays tackle at least at first.

 

[Stash]

That's what we call a straw man. This is my topic in the first place, I know who the player is and what his scouting report and college history is. I'm telling you that he is going to want to play tackle and get paid as a tackle. He unlike Martin still has tackle measurables.

You can 'tell me' your opinion on the subject as many times as you want. That's fine. But you know as much and as little as any of us on what the biggest factors will be for the player.

His biggest priority may be to play with his college buddies in Miami.

But your assumption that tackle vs guard is that highest priority is just that - an assumption.

 

[Stash]

If drafted maybe he would have been plugged in at guard, as a free agent he has the leverage to ensure he plays tackle at least at first.

Going back to your opinion that guard vs tackle is his highest priority.

 

[xwalker]

I think that's actually all the more reason Collins would be a better fit. He is, without question, better at reaching a block and getting to the second level, then is Leary. Leary would likely be stronger and that's going to be a fact of life for Collins, regardless of where he plays or what position he ultimately plays but as far as mobility and leverage, I think Collins is better day one then Leary will ever be.

If we were to sign Leary, I do think that we would change our scheme but that's water that hasn't even made it to the bridge yet so a discussion for another day (I hope).

Collins should be better eventually with better quickness. The issue is stepping right in as a rookie. The Cowboys zone scheme takes a lot of practice and there is a big mental component.

Collins is probably looking for a team where he has a good shot to play OT. Most players see OT as the preferred position.

 

[Galian Beast]

Collins should be better eventually with better quickness. The issue is stepping right in as a rookie. The Cowboys zone scheme takes a lot of practice and there is a big mental component.

Collins is probably looking for a team where he has a good shot to play OT. Most players see OT as the preferred position.

Right tackles don't necessarily get paid much more than guards, a lot of evidence suggests that top guards are actually paid more than right tackles, but a lot of elite right tackles can envision shifting to the left side at some point in their career.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Collins should be better eventually with better quickness. The issue is stepping right in as a rookie. The Cowboys zone scheme takes a lot of practice and there is a big mental component.

Collins is probably looking for a team where he has a good shot to play OT. Most players see OT as the preferred position.

I think that what you would probably see is the help side shift to the left if Collins were brought in. Martin is in his second year, he will be better and stronger and the help side will be provided to Collins, assuming he were signed and became the starter.

Leary, IMO, is not the strongest mental product either so it's a guess as to how much better or worse Collins might be. However, and this is really big if this were to happen. Leary is a FA next year. If Collins were signed, I think that we would almost certainly start him if he had any kind of camp. If you don't resign Leary next year, then you are left with zero starting experience at LG unless you pay for an FA. That would not be cheap and I doubt it's what the team would want to do. If you bring back Leary, I think that it will be much more expensive then it was this last time because Leary will likely not see another contract. However, if he is not a starter, I think you have leverage there and I also think that you extend his career and he could see another contract. I think it's critical that the Cowboys figure out a plan for LG this year. If we wait, it's going to be ugly for us and you give the player all the leverage there.

 

[Nightman]

Collins second contract will be the important one. But he won't go broke the next 4 years.

Collins will get close to 5.5-6.5m over the next 4 years if he is as good as advertised no matter where he goes. The extra million could be earned through the pay to play program.

But Jeremy Parnell just got 32m with 13m guaranteed after being a back-up swing OT in Dallas for 4 years.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

He couldn't beat out Leary? Or Free by week one?

Why would he want to enter into a competition with some REALLY good players behind him?

He just lost a LOT of money. He is going to try and maximize his chance at starting time and an eventual payday. While you might think he would want to come in and compete... And it sounds all great in theory.... His best financial option is to NOT do that.

 

[Galian Beast]

Why would he want to enter into a competition with some REALLY good players behind him?

He just lost a LOT of money. He is going to try and maximize his chance at starting time and an eventual payday. While you might think he would want to come in and compete... And it sounds all great in theory.... His best financial option is to NOT do that.

Some people are in dream land where this isn't a business.